Life has no logical purpose

[Trinity19]

can you really count that as the purpose of existence and not just the law of conservation of mass?

Oh I wasn't saying it was the purpose of existence, I was just explaining what I was talking about with energy just being converted when he mentioned it couldn't be destroyed.

lol, still your argument is ego-centric, basing species dominance almost purely on intelligence.
in terms of mass, whales are the dominant species on earth.
in terms of speed, there are many faster animals
hell, various virus' are more dominant than we are in terms of numbers and reproduction.

Well yes and no. You are correct these animals are more dominant in these respective areas, however collectively we are more dominant, mainly because of our more complex brains and intellectual thought processes. It's because of these we have the ability to be more dominant through technology and just overall intelligence.
Now we can't base our dominance purely on intelligence I'm aware of that, but it's what we are able to do with this intelligence that puts us ahead.

i can go on and on.
we are only dominant in respect to the fact that we have covered the earth built many things on its surface, and we have a large cerebral cortex, but there are many ways in which we are inferior to other creatures on earth.

Apologies, (I answer these one part at a time so I just realized I already discussed this part) but still reenforcing the idea that while we don't hold dominance in most area absolutely, we do hold a collective dominance highly in many areas.
Best comparison I can think of at the moment would be three restaurants. Restaurant A has a rating of 10 in pizza but a rating of 1 in beer. Restaurant B has a rating of 10 in beer and a rating of 1 in pizza. Restaurant C has a rating of 8 in both pizza and beer. Now while restaurant C doesn't have the advantage in either of these, as a restaurant it has the be chances and it superior because it can provide both with relatively high ratings.

so to claim absolute dominance is foolish.

Oh ofcourse, whats that old saying, "There's always someone better" or something like that. Claiming absolute dominance in one field would be absurd. But in many fields that adds a little bit more of a statistic.

as for your claim about life and death being the meaning of life, it is ok.
but just because they depend on eachother does not necessarily label one symbiotic side the purpose of the other or else the purpose of our computers would be to use electricity

Well the way I put it was that life and death are the meaning of existence. With death being the meaning to life.
However, it does make one the purpose of the other side if that other side is the specific and absolute outcome, as the way I wrote it before: Life-Existence-Death.
The beginning is what is the first necessity, (that is why saying the purpose of life is to live, it doesn't work because it's essentially begging the question). The end is the absolute outcome, thus the purpose of the beginning. Together they create the meaning of existence.

It's a little rough explaining this since this is the first time I've ever tried explaining this "verbally", I think my Space-Matter-Time explanation was better and if you understand that then I'm sure the transfer to the existence one will be alot easier.
So the problem with your computer analogy is that there are many different end results for a computer that I can think of, however if you can figure it out then I'd be glad to go over it with you, but I just don't think there is an absolute so a computer and the matter/energy it holds.

please tell me if i went wrong somewhere in my interpretation

Oh no, you got the basic concept, just I had to clarify about the end result being absolute and not just every end idea you can stick in there lol.

 

[ShockWaveee]

This article is partly right, although it did make me laugh at the end.


Last time I checked the Andromeda Galaxy was 2.5 million light years from earth...that's a hellllllllll of alot farther than 10 times the distance to the moon.

It's a scaled comparison rofl.. read it again, if you don't get it, you don't deserve to understand it

 

[blazinfasstt]

Oh I wasn't saying it was the purpose of existence, I was just explaining what I was talking about with energy just being converted when he mentioned it couldn't be destroyed.


Well yes and no. You are correct these animals are more dominant in these respective areas, however collectively we are more dominant, mainly because of our more complex brains and intellectual thought processes. It's because of these we have the ability to be more dominant through technology and just overall intelligence.
Now we can't base our dominance purely on intelligence I'm aware of that, but it's what we are able to do with this intelligence that puts us ahead.



Apologies, (I answer these one part at a time so I just realized I already discussed this part) but still reenforcing the idea that while we don't hold dominance in most area absolutely, we do hold a collective dominance highly in many areas.
Best comparison I can think of at the moment would be three restaurants. Restaurant A has a rating of 10 in pizza but a rating of 1 in beer. Restaurant B has a rating of 10 in beer and a rating of 1 in pizza. Restaurant C has a rating of 8 in both pizza and beer. Now while restaurant C doesn't have the advantage in either of these, as a restaurant it has the be chances and it superior because it can provide both with relatively high ratings.


Oh ofcourse, whats that old saying, "There's always someone better" or something like that. Claiming absolute dominance in one field would be absurd. But in many fields that adds a little bit more of a statistic.



Well the way I put it was that life and death are the meaning of existence. With death being the meaning to life.
However, it does make one the purpose of the other side if that other side is the specific and absolute outcome, as the way I wrote it before: Life-Existence-Death.
The beginning is what is the first necessity, (that is why saying the purpose of life is to live, it doesn't work because it's essentially begging the question). The end is the absolute outcome, thus the purpose of the beginning. Together they create the meaning of existence.

It's a little rough explaining this since this is the first time I've ever tried explaining this "verbally", I think my Space-Matter-Time explanation was better and if you understand that then I'm sure the transfer to the existence one will be alot easier.
So the problem with your computer analogy is that there are many different end results for a computer that I can think of, however if you can figure it out then I'd be glad to go over it with you, but I just don't think there is an absolute so a computer and the matter/energy it holds.


Oh no, you got the basic concept, just I had to clarify about the end result being absolute and not just every end idea you can stick in there lol.

i altered my original post since you started yours
if you would read it over it has some more questions

also:

i just think that any system that we base dominance on would be incomplete based partly on our ignorance and on our species-centric mindset (we all know humans believe themselves to be superior to other animals - i think im superior to almost any animal i can think of but i really dont think that makes it so. perhaps it is simply more comforting.)

personally, i think that virus' are the superior beings on earth. think of it, they use us to multiply. sure we may have momentary protection from many dangerous virus', but penicillin will only be effective for so long.

 

[blazinfasstt]

If the solar system were the size of a table, the Andromedae Galaxy would lie at 10 times the distance to the moon and the most distant galaxies would lie at 60 times the distance to the Sun.

distance to moon is 1.28 light seconds

1.28 x 10 = 12.8 light seconds

the distance to the Andromeda galaxy is estimated at 2.5 light years

most distant galaxy is 13.2 billion light years away

distance from earth to the sun is 499 seconds or 8.31 minutes

8.31 x 60 = 8.31 light hours

am i missing something here?

 

[ShockWaveee]

distance to moon is 1.28 light seconds

1.28 x 10 = 12.8 light seconds

the distance to the Andromeda galaxy is estimated at 2.5 light years

most distant galaxy is 13.2 billion light years away

distance from earth to the sun is 499 seconds or 8.31 minutes

8.31 x 60 = 8.31 light hours

am i missing something here?

Yes you're missing something. The nearest star is like 4.2 light years away. Our galaxy alone is like 100,000 light years across. Andromeda is much further away than 2.5 light years (too lazy to look it up for the exact number, that's on you)

 

[iDung]

:huh:

Your post is speculation based on opinion. A biased opinion. You're using the same logic that a lot of theists use to condemn atheists. Why is it that everything can come from God, but God does not have to come from anything? Yet the big bang is always criticized for not being able to explain what happened before it? The logic does not work both ways. I'm not saying you're necessarily the person to do this type of thing, but I have seen it in the majority of theists and so I raise the question to you.

Because based on Human Logic everything has to come from somewhere, therefore that somewhere would be God.

There is no way to prove God is fake, and there is no way to prove God is real. You just have to believe in God and the more faith you have in him the more you will understand the purpose of this planet.

Yes, it is my opinion. But every statement on this thread will be an opinion because the only fact is no one truly knows the answers to these types of questions stated in this thread.

 

[blazinfasstt]

Because based on Human Logic everything has to come from somewhere

where did god come from?

 

[DeXoh]

Life has no purpose, just causes. There is no "reason" for anything. Things happen, and other things happen as a result of these things. That is just my intuition of the matter. Of course, I can't prove any of this.

 

[iDung]

where did god come from?

God is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from God. Hard to understand but that's what I and millions of other people believe.

Either way it is quite pointless to think about this, like the OP said it is simply a mind fuck lol.

 

[blazinfasstt]

God is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from God. Hard to understand but that's what I and millions of other people believe.

Either way it is quite pointless to think about this, like the OP said it is simply a mind fuck lol.

it is not a mindfuck
this premises have already been picked apart

and your first premise is void by my argument and your validation of my argument

just because ppl believe it does not make it true. i advise you not to use that argument again, as it is unconvincing.

it is not hard to understand, it is just fallacious. it may be hard to believe due to it's counter intuitive logic

 

[sith kid]

God is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from God. Hard to understand but that's what I and millions of other people believe.

Either way it is quite pointless to think about this, like the OP said it is simply a mind fuck lol.

Brainwash. Replace god with "The Universe"

The Universe is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from The Universe

Makes as much sense as god.

 

[C_Town_Hero]

this is trippy shit

 

[ShockWaveee]

God is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from God. Hard to understand but that's what I and millions of other people believe.

Either way it is quite pointless to think about this, like the OP said it is simply a mind fuck lol.

The same logic works just as well with the universe being the same thing as God. It's not pointless to think about, and OP only thinks it's a mindfuck because he gave himself a bunch of irrational "rules" the universe would have to follow for both God to be real and for God to be a lie at the same time... that is why his logic does not work.

Even though the burden of proof lies on religion's back, science has still presented us with innumerable amounts of evidence that does not support the idea of God, yet religion has never given us one piece of evidence to support God's existence.

 

[Trinity19]

i think you forget some factors, death is not the only result of life. therefore, there are more possible reasons for life.
there are factors that are internal to the resulting medium between life and death, such as reproduction that could be the purpose of life. you could say that because reproduction and anything else you could do exists inside this resulting medium, the purpose of is ultimately attributed to this common factor.

I see where you're coming from, however I think I fixed my statement to say "absolute final" which is a bit clearer.

also, when you say life do you mean birth or just being alive. i ask this because is being alive not existing? or what is the purpose of separating those.

I mean just the idea of life all together, considering it would be hard if we went on an individual standpoint. Due to differing morals and what not.

i just think that any system that we base dominance on would be incomplete based partly on our ignorance and on our species-centric mindset (we all know humans believe themselves to be superior to other animals - i think im superior to almost any animal i can think of but i really dont think that makes it so. perhaps it is simply more comforting.)

Possibly, however there hasn't been a creature yet to have me question our dominance. Now if there was then maybe it'd be an iffy situation.

personally, i think that virus' are the superior beings on earth. think of it, they use us to multiply. sure we may have momentary protection from many dangerous virus', but penicillin will only be effective for so long.

True, I can see what you mean, I think we would still have to be dominant though because 1. they don't have any cognitive though process, and 2. We can eradicate them from hurting us if we find the vaccine for them. (Some diseases like aids take much longer to find vaccines for though, but you have to remember we're in the early stages of science still, there is no doubt in my mind within the next 100 years or so we will cure almost every disease.)

distance to moon is 1.28 light seconds

1.28 x 10 = 12.8 light seconds

the distance to the Andromeda galaxy is estimated at 2.5 light years

most distant galaxy is 13.2 billion light years away

distance from earth to the sun is 499 seconds or 8.31 minutes

8.31 x 60 = 8.31 light hours

am i missing something here?

EXACTLY lol, I didn't get what it was talking about either, well on a scale standpoint.

Yes you're missing something. The nearest star is like 4.2 light years away. Our galaxy alone is like 100,000 light years across. Andromeda is much further away than 2.5 light years (too lazy to look it up for the exact number, that's on you)

2.5 million light years. I still don't understand the comparison to it being placed on a table? I mean yeah counter for the size difference and scale it that way but wouldn't the moon be in idk new york and andromeda be in china?

Because based on Human Logic everything has to come from somewhere, therefore that somewhere would be God.

There is no way to prove God is fake, and there is no way to prove God is real. You just have to believe in God and the more faith you have in him the more you will understand the purpose of this planet.

Yes, it is my opinion. But every statement on this thread will be an opinion because the only fact is no one truly knows the answers to these types of questions stated in this thread.

Yes there is a way to prove god is fake...the only evidence you have of god is the bible, everything in the bible regarding god can be picked apart and analyzed to be contradicting in some fashion or just obviously false. You can't prove the bible with the bible for starters.

God is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from God. Hard to understand but that's what I and millions of other people believe.

Either way it is quite pointless to think about this, like the OP said it is simply a mind fuck lol.

I going to have to agree with Blazinfasstt on this one, this is a horrible argument. It's not a mind fuck it's just you have to reason it into a easier idea.

God is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from God.

You know this how? (please provide other evidence than the bible or scriptures supported only by the bible.)

 

[iDung]

it is not a mindfuck
this premises have already been picked apart

and your first premise is void by my argument and your validation of my argument

just because ppl believe it does not make it true. i advise you not to use that argument again, as it is unconvincing.

it is not hard to understand, it is just fallacious. it may be hard to believe due to it's counter intuitive logic

I'm not trying to convince you. If you want to rely on something like Science and go against God you will simply burn in Hell.

I know what I gain from being a Christian, what do you gain from being an atheist?

Brainwash. Replace god with "The Universe"

The Universe is the one being that did not come from anything hence everything coming from The Universe

Makes as much sense as god.

The universe cannot be "the one" it is not a being. If it is not living, how can it create something? Something living had to create the universe, objects don't just create themselves.

 

[bad_moose]

we are all gods children. we are here for his purpose.

I reckon science has something to say about that...

Anyway. I think that purpose is a man made concept. Intelligent life is created through a process of evolution and natural selection. There is no way of knowing whether or not we have a purpose on earth or if we came to be because that's how nature panned out. Unless there is some kind of greater power (Eg. a more intelligent race who are watching us and have bred us) then we are essentially useless. We might spend years finding a cure for cancer, or put our young people through the stress of exams, or go to war with other nations but in in the bigger picture all of that is pointless, because one day our world will end and everything we have ever done will have been for nothing.

 

[Trinity19]

I'm not trying to convince you. If you want to rely on something like Science and go against God you will simply burn in Hell.

I know what I gain from being a Christian, what do you gain from being an atheist?

Explain to me why religion is more reliable then science?
What we gain from being atheist is the ability to better understand our surroundings instead of being shrouded in this veil of uncertainty and instead of trying to pass through this veil, you just give it a name and call it god.

also I love this statement "I know what I gain from being a Christian, what do you gain from being an atheist?"
What if the Hindu's are correct? Why don't you believe in Hinduism? I mean you could be wrong and then you would reincarnate as a lower being. There is no reason not to believe in Hinduism if you believe in Christianity, both have the ability to be right as both follow blind faith ideals.

Also you never quite answered my question :
Can you give any evidence besides the bible or articles supported only by the bible that proves god exists?

The universe cannot be "the one" it is not a being. If it is not living, how can it create something? Something living had to create the universe, objects don't just create themselves.

How can't the universe be the one? Everything that is and will always be came from the universe. Yes we are living, but as humans we are constructed from basic non-living particles, if you pick us apart we are just a hunk of atoms that have the ability of cognitive thought through the correct electrical processes.

(Also I can look up with a telescope and see the universe exists, yet no sign of god even though he was so willing to show himself to non-believers in the bible.)


When it comes down to it, religion is just a story. Made simply just because of our fear of the unknown and to give it some sort of characteristic. I don't blame you for believing in it, I wish I could but I'm using the logic I am given as a human being to understand that this story cannot be true.

We deny the existence of a god because there is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing concrete saying he exists. All religion has is the bible, and you cannot prove the bible with bible. It's the same as if I said the cat in the hat was real because of the Dr.Seuss book, he exists in the book and even though I can't see him,hear him,or touch him he must be real because theres a book written about him.

There is no argument for god because all arguments supporting him are flawed because that is what happens if you try to support the idea of an existing non-existent creature. I implore you to use your own judgment to actually look into religion and see all the fallacies that come out of it. I mean hell, Christianity wasn't even the first religion, how can you say that all these religions before were wrong yet you are right? The Egyptians mythical idols were fake but yours (with roughly the same amount of evidence) is real? It makes no logical sense.

Also last thing, the sacrifice of Jesus makes no sense at all >.> He sacrificed himself to himself for the sake of pleading himself to stop himself from damning all of mankind because he himself damned us for something he knew would happen (if he is omniscient). Yeah....ofcourse.

 

[ShockWaveee]

I know this is getting off topic but I will explain that comparison since you guys have such issue understanding it

If the solar system were the size of a table, the Andromedae Galaxy would lie at 10 times the distance to the moon and the most distant galaxies would lie at 60 times the distance to the Sun

Condense everything so that our solar system is the size of a table. The Andromeda galaxy would (on the new scale we've just created) be like going 10 times the distance to the moon from Earth.. The second comparison is taking some of the most distant galaxies, some 14 billion light years away, and saying that on our newly created scale, it would be like going the distance from Earth to the Sun 60 times. Not too hard to understand.

I'm not trying to convince you. If you want to rely on something like Science and go against God you will simply burn in Hell.

I know what I gain from being a Christian, what do you gain from being an atheist?


The universe cannot be "the one" it is not a being. If it is not living, how can it create something? Something living had to create the universe, objects don't just create themselves.

This statement is crafted of pure ignorance. This is not a forum to throw about biased opinion, but rather to have intelligent debate. Obviously you cannot do that. You have more than likely never studied the physics required to come to the conclusion that things can't just come from nothing.. Stephen Hawking, who I dare say is a tad bit more knowledgeable than you on the subject, says they can. Also, there is such thing as "Hawking radiation" at the event horizon of black holes that creates particles and ejects them into the universe.

What do I gain by being an atheist? I maintain a logical and rational viewpoint of the world, which allows me to more efficiently see things as they are, and not as I would like them to be. I am not held back by the notion of God, and I do not feel as though I owe some mystical being in the night sky my gratitude. It's actually empowering, not evil as you seem to think it is. Morality and religion are NOT mutually exclusive, I would actually wager to think that it would be the opposite. Religion has claimed more lives than atheism ever will, so if you're asserting that without religion/God we would be a bunch of immoral rapists, murderers, etc.. you are very sorely wrong.

Also, I really don't understand how it would be entirely impossible for the universe to be identical to God. Just because your holy book of choice says that you have a creator God, does not make it true. What about all the other religions? What if you had been born into Islam (I'm assuming you're Christian) instead? You would be here defending your beliefs and condemning others who do not share your views, as you are now. Do you see where I'm going with this? You only believe in your chosen God because you were raised to think that way. If you were brought up on the notion that God and the universe are identical, you would not be refuting me at all right now. The big difference between you and I, I have noticed, is that you are entirely dismissive of any other viewpoint other than your own. If you enjoy ignorance, I guess that is fine, but at least for me it is much more fun to hear both sides of the story and then make a decision based on that, rather than relying on "faith". Think of it this way - let's say you have no knowledge whatsoever of colors. You can see them, but you do not know what color is which. If the first person you asked told you the sky was green, would you stand by that even if a million other people told you it was blue? It's exactly the same.

Since this is a place for intelligent debate, one would expect you to back up your beliefs/opinions with evidence. You have not done so, which does not promote "intelligent" debate. If you're stuck on your opinion despite all of the counter-evidence we have to offer, then there is no room for you to post here. What does it accomplish? The only way for you to win a debate is to back it up with convincing evidence that can be tested. Telling us we're "Going to hell" sounds like a pretty petty threat considering the people you are telling this are more than likely atheists and so will not take you seriously. All you're doing is making yourself look like a fool by doing so.

 

[iDung]

Explain to me why religion is more reliable then science?
What we gain from being atheist is the ability to better understand our surroundings instead of being shrouded in this veil of uncertainty and instead of trying to pass through this veil, you just give it a name and call it god.

also I love this statement "I know what I gain from being a Christian, what do you gain from being an atheist?"
What if the Hindu's are correct? Why don't you believe in Hinduism? I mean you could be wrong and then you would reincarnate as a lower being. There is no reason not to believe in Hinduism if you believe in Christianity, both have the ability to be right as both follow blind faith ideals.

Also you never quite answered my question :
Can you give any evidence besides the bible or articles supported only by the bible that proves god exists?


How can't the universe be the one? Everything that is and will always be came from the universe. Yes we are living, but as humans we are constructed from basic non-living particles, if you pick us apart we are just a hunk of atoms that have the ability of cognitive thought through the correct electrical processes.

(Also I can look up with a telescope and see the universe exists, yet no sign of god even though he was so willing to show himself to non-believers in the bible.)


When it comes down to it, religion is just a story. Made simply just because of our fear of the unknown and to give it some sort of characteristic. I don't blame you for believing in it, I wish I could but I'm using the logic I am given as a human being to understand that this story cannot be true.

We deny the existence of a god because there is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing concrete saying he exists. All religion has is the bible, and you cannot prove the bible with bible. It's the same as if I said the cat in the hat was real because of the Dr.Seuss book, he exists in the book and even though I can't see him,hear him,or touch him he must be real because theres a book written about him.

There is no argument for god because all arguments supporting him are flawed because that is what happens if you try to support the idea of an existing non-existent creature. I implore you to use your own judgment to actually look into religion and see all the fallacies that come out of it. I mean hell, Christianity wasn't even the first religion, how can you say that all these religions before were wrong yet you are right? The Egyptians mythical idols were fake but yours (with roughly the same amount of evidence) is real? It makes no logical sense.

Also last thing, the sacrifice of Jesus makes no sense at all >.> He sacrificed himself to himself for the sake of pleading himself to stop himself from damning all of mankind because he himself damned us for something he knew would happen (if he is omniscient). Yeah....ofcourse.

I'm really not interested in reading that wall of text. All I saw was you requesting evidence of God existing but you are restricting the types of evidence I can show you because that evidence proves you wrong...

Being an atheist does not allow you to better understand your surroundings anymore than being a Christian so that really isn't a valid response to my question.

 

[ShockWaveee]

I'm really not interested in reading that wall of text. All I saw was you requesting evidence of God existing but you are restricting the types of evidence I can show you because that evidence proves you wrong...

Being an atheist does not allow you to better understand your surroundings anymore than being a Christian so that really isn't a valid response to my question.

Are you asserting that the Bible proves anything? Ignorance, ignorance, ignorance

Also I lol @ you refusing to read a counter-argument. Why even post.. you're not accomplishing anything in your arguments and you certainly aren't converting any "damned" souls. I lol @ you again for saying Christians can understand the world in the same way as atheists. You refute evolution, yet say you share the same level of understanding as atheists. YEAH OKAY LOL.