Why Christianity

[z Revs]

How do you suggest that God would deal with the aforementioned scenario, then? All fine well reaffirming his alleged omnipotence, but if you're not going to demonstrate how an omnipotent could go about addressing such a logical predicament, don't bother posting.

You really seem to be missing the point. If a God is omnipotent, he would defy the logic that he could make something so heavy he couldnt lift it. That is what omnipotence is. You're applying logic to something that defies logic, so how could I possibly apply logic to you're illogical statement.

 

[Trinity19]

You're missing my point. All because you come up with a 'logical' way to defy omnipotence doesn't mean you have disproven omnipotence. Point is, you can't logically disprove omnipotence, because its omnipotence.

No, you seem to be missing the point, why would god in a situation that would rid him of his omnipotence act upon it? In brings the contradiction of how can he be omnipotent if doing so would make him not?

If you cannot answer that and your only reply is that god can defy logic then don't bother answering because that answer holds no value.

 

[nolimitlegacy]

Think about it..theres essentially 2 things you can do during your life
Believe and Not believe
And at the end of life theres 2 different endings
There is a GOD or there ISNT

Now if you believe in god and there is a god..
Your reward is eternal life, your loss is nothing

Now if you believe in god and there is NO god..
Your reward is nothing, your loss is nothing

now if you DONT believe in god and there IS a god
Your reward is Eternal Damnnation, your loss is eternal life

Now if you DONT believe in god and there ISNT a god
Your reward is nothing, your loss is nothing..

Hope this helps you make a choice.

 

[Oxytocin]

...
2.) If he believes in Christianity for that reason, then he's going to hell anyways because the church and the religion itself has made it clear that believing just so you can get into heaven will not be a rewarding path.

In my brother's religion, that is not the case. Also it's very common that people will believe the core principals of god but make exceptions for certain principals that don't make sense to them.

I say leave your brother be, if he wants to believe in God, let him. I'm not going to debate here because there is no point and nothing will come out of topics about religion and God.

You seem to be assuming that I'm the one who brings up the discussion about god.

Haha this is funny not really a big argument but i see the point your trying to get to. Anyways this brings up something that i learnt recently, back in those times before and after Jesus was alive religion was actually used to keep crime limited, pretty much people were brainwashed with the whole behave and you go to heaven and be blessed or misbehave and go to hell and it was necessary because the conditions were rough back then and alot of people were poor and really didn't have much to live for so committing a crime was no problem for them and the rich people were usually the ones who really got the church going were the rich and the taxing of the poor also, but really thats so smart while they were already struggling as it was they tax of them anyways and whats to say churches arent for the same purpose now? Just to control the community in any sort of way.

There was someone who actually founded this idea but i cant remember his name.

Many people believe this basic idea. I'd like to see who your giving so much credit to.

1.) God is omnipotent.
2.) Can God create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?
3.) If yes, he is not omnipotent.
4.) If no, he is not omnipotent.
5.) Omnipotence is logically impossible.
6.) An omnipotent God cannot exist.
7.) One of God's key predicates is omnipotence.
8.) God does not exist.

That's one of the best arguments I've seen. It's impossible to prove god does not exist [russel's teapot theory]. It does disprove fundamental Christian beliefs although .

You really seem to be missing the point. If a God is omnipotent, he would defy the logic that he could make something so heavy he couldnt lift it. That is what omnipotence is. You're applying logic to something that defies logic, so how could I possibly apply logic to you're illogical statement.

SFA is for intelligent debate. Technically your post is spam, because it's not logical and defies reason.

 

[z Revs]

SFA is for intelligent debate. Technically your post is omnipotent, because it's not logical and defies reason.

Fixed.

 

[Trinity19]

Think about it..theres essentially 2 things you can do during your life
Believe and Not believe
And at the end of life theres 2 different endings
There is a GOD or there ISNT

Now if you believe in god and there is a god..
Your reward is eternal life, your loss is nothing

Now if you believe in god and there is NO god..
Your reward is nothing, your loss is nothing

now if you DONT believe in god and there IS a god
Your reward is Eternal Damnnation, your loss is eternal life

Now if you DONT believe in god and there ISNT a god
Your reward is nothing, your loss is nothing..

Hope this helps you make a choice.

Again I'm going to say, MOST RELIGIONS HAVE YOU DAMNED IF YOU just believe so you can gain the afterlife reward.

 

[bronzehalo]

I myself am a Christian and i do believe, But the thing i never got was when you pass on what form will you take in the after life...Not everyone dies at the same point in time...So we all will be diffrent ages up there? some old some young? That is what i seek the answer too

 

An omnipotent God can also defy logic. Do you know the definition of omnipotent?

How do you suggest that God would deal with the aforementioned scenario, then? All fine well reaffirming his alleged omnipotence, but if you're not going to demonstrate how an omnipotent could go about addressing such a logical predicament, don't bother posting.

Here's the correct response to this:

If god is outside of logic then by definition you cannot reason about god. If you cannot reason about god then obviously reasoning about god in the form of presenting a counter-argument to the omnipotence paradox is impossible. Thus this response is a performative contradiction or 'self detonating argument'. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction)

 

[z Revs]

Here's the correct response to this:

If god is outside of logic then by definition you cannot reason about god. If you cannot reason about god then obviously reasoning about god in the form of presenting a counter-argument to the omnipotence paradox is impossible. Thus this response is a performative contradiction or 'self detonating argument'. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performative_contradiction)

Not only that, but his statement of logic is completely relative to our physical world. Because we don't have the slightest understanding of anything except our physical world (or what we interpret as our physical world), how could we possibly challenge the idea of omnipotence with something as trivial as weight?

 

[gtdarkpunisher]

Not only that, but his statement of logic is completely relative to our physical world. Because we don't have the slightest understanding of anything except our physical world (or what we interpret as our physical world), how could we possibly challenge the idea of omnipotence with something as trivial as weight?

Since this section is for intellectual discussions and we could only provide logical arguments to the any topic; any argument trying to prove anything or any idea of other dimensions or in this case religious beliefs, more specifically God, which we have no proof or understanding for as you say; cannot prove or disprove God to the other since one who believes in God believes he "defies" logic, so arguing would be useless and the result is what just happened....back and forth posting. One saying his argument isn't logical while the other says logic is out of the question for God. So as for this:

"how could we possibly challenge the idea of omnipotence with something as trivial as weight"

It doesn't matter, you're going on the belief God exist and is omnipotent; accepting the idea as true. Therefore neither you or anyone can hold any argument against or supporting the existence of an omnipotent God. You're presenting something "hypothetical" technically that can only be proven or disproved until we somehow see this God and his powers.

 

[z Revs]

Since this section is for intellectual discussions and we could only provide logical arguments to the any topic; any argument trying to prove anything or any idea of other dimensions or in this case religious beliefs, more specifically God, which we have no proof or understanding for as you say; cannot prove or disprove God to the other since one who believes in God believes he "defies" logic, so arguing would be useless and the result is what just happened....back and forth posting. One saying his argument isn't logical while the other says logic is out of the question for God. So as for this:

"how could we possibly challenge the idea of omnipotence with something as trivial as weight"

It doesn't matter, you're going on the belief God exist and is omnipotent; accepting the idea as true. Therefore neither you or anyone can hold any argument against or supporting the existence of an omnipotent God. You're presenting something "hypothetical" technically that can only be proven or disproved until we somehow see this God and his powers.

Yes, but I can prove that something or someone that defies all logic exists. I can prove that by using the beginning of the universe as an example. Truth is, it doesn't matter what you believe, the one undeniable fact is that the 'beginning' or the 'creation' was a process that defies and will always defy the idea of logic. According to logic, you can't create something out of nothing. Our Universe didn't create itself, so it defies logic. So, something or someone that defies all reason and logic created our universe. I believe it's Yahweh, but thats just my belief.

 

Yes, but I can prove that something or someone that defies all logic exists.

You mean you have identified a paradox. That is not the same as proving that something illogical exists; Paradox arises from a flaw in your reasoning or an error in your premises.

I can prove that by using the beginning of the universe as an example. Truth is, it doesn't matter what you believe, the one undeniable fact is that the 'beginning' or the 'creation' was a process that defies and will always defy the idea of logic. According to logic, you can't create something out of nothing. Our Universe didn't create itself, so it defies logic. So, something or someone that defies all reason and logic created our universe. I believe it's Yahweh, but thats just my belief.

Your belief is crap. It's based on nothing, supported by nothing. There is no reason to accept it above any other random explanation.

The 'beginning' of the universe paradox is not in fact a paradox at all, but just a misapplication of abstractions to concretes. What evidence, for example, do you have even to suggest that for the universe there was a beginning or will be an end? Why have you attached these cutoff points?

The law of conservation of matter and energy underscore the point well enough. If matter cannot be created or destroyed but only transformed then the universe, being made of matter, must logically be the same way. This is a much sounder, simpler argument than any put forward by creationists or big-bang theorists.

 

[z Revs]

You mean you have identified a paradox. That is not the same as proving that something illogical exists; Paradox arises from a flaw in your reasoning or an error in your premises.

Your belief is crap. It's based on nothing, supported by nothing. There is no reason to accept it above any other random explanation.

The 'beginning' of the universe paradox is not in fact a paradox at all, but just a misapplication of abstractions to concretes. What evidence, for example, do you have even to suggest that for the universe there was a beginning or will be an end? Why have you attached these cutoff points?

The law of conservation of matter and energy underscore the point well enough. If matter cannot be created or destroyed but only transformed then the universe, being made of matter, must logically be the same way. This is a much sounder, simpler argument than any put forward by creationists or big-bang theorists.

Just to be sure, are you implying that the matter of our universe was trasformed, not created, by the law of conservation?

 

[gtdarkpunisher]

Yes, but I can prove that something or someone that defies all logic exists. I can prove that by using the beginning of the universe as an example. Truth is, it doesn't matter what you believe, the one undeniable fact is that the 'beginning' or the 'creation' was a process that defies and will always defy the idea of logic. According to logic, you can't create something out of nothing. Our Universe didn't create itself, so it defies logic. So, something or someone that defies all reason and logic created our universe. I believe it's Yahweh, but thats just my belief.

As Sythe said, that's your belief.

Saying something that is illogical to prove something existed isn't proving nothing.

Since the universe exist for a fact but since we don't know how it came to existence it does not mean its proven wrong. God on the other hand is purely belief in his existence while if he exist he is a paradox, but that's not proof as you are using it in your case since there no solid proof for his existence. Its still hypothetically speaking of his existence

Hes not implying the universe is transformed. He's explaining why you can't prove God exist with what you said above.

 

[z Revs]

As Sythe said, that's your belief.

Saying something that is illogical to prove something existed isn't proving nothing.

Since the universe exist for a fact but since we don't know how it came to existence it does not mean its proven wrong. God on the other hand is purely belief in his existence while if he exist he is a paradox, but that's not proof as you are using it in your case since there no solid proof for his existence. Its still hypothetically speaking of his existence

Hes not implying the universe is transformed. He's explaining why you can't prove God exist with what you said above.

I didn't make that statement to prove God exists, I made that statement to prove illogical concepts are proven to exist. I will make a new post with further detail as soon as I do more research

 

Just to be sure, are you implying that the matter of our universe was trasformed, not created, by the law of conservation?

I am saying that the law of conservation of matter (and energy) requires the universe to have existed indefinitely.

 

[Denode]

Tell your brother that his omniscient God will know his motives and damn him for it. Really not that hard a thing to understand. This is a centuries old wager with centuries old rebuttals.

Dammit Sythe you beat me to it.

Everybody, please stop assuming the Universe had a beginning. If it's so easy for you to conceptualize a God who exists on an infinite time-line, it should not be too difficult to wrap your head around the concept of an infinite Universe.

 

[Trinity19]

I am saying that the law of conservation of matter (and energy) requires the universe to have existed indefinitely.

Not quite, it requires the matte itself to have existed in some form indefinitely. There can be other explanations for this. Obviously the universe can't have existed forever or else the sky would always be bright and there would be no night.

 

Not quite, it requires the matte itself to have existed in some form indefinitely. There can be other explanations for this. Obviously the universe can't have existed forever or else the sky would always be bright and there would be no night.

Why?

.

 

[Rsaccounttrader]

Obviously the universe can't have existed forever or else the sky would always be bright and there would be no night.

Proof or gtfo?
You argument is as logical as this one: 'Obviously bananas have only been around for 26 years because they aren't purple.'

Also, by "universe" do you mean the entire world or only the universe Earth is in (there may be many universes)