Christianity/God

[W77]

This thread is for both atheists and Christians (both gnostic and agnostic) to argue about religion. (Specifically Christianity.)

I'm a gnostic atheist myself and I'll get us started on a non-typical route:

If you've ever paid attention you might have noticed that much of Christianity is taken from other religions and civilizations. I heard it best said as: "Instead of asking what Christianity has taken from other religions, you should be asking what Christianity hasn't taken from other religions."

The Egyptian God Osiris is said to bring his believers eternal life in Heaven.

Demeter from Greek Mythology described bringing believers happiness in their eternal life.

Dionysus from Greek Mythology turned water into wine.

Both Romulus and Dionysus were born virgins.

Glycon (son of the God Apollo) came to Earth through a miraculous birth, was the Earthly manifestation of divinity, came to earth in fulfillment of divine prophecy, gave his chief believer the power of prophecy, gave believers the power to speak in tongues, performed miracles, healed the sick, and raised the dead.

Attis was born in December 25th by a virgin, and he was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers. He was both the Divine Son and the Father. On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth. He descended into the underworld. After three days, Attis was resurrected.

Agustus is the son of god, born from a mortal.

Ra (or Amun-Ra) took the place of the first "God" Anu. The "amun" from Amun-Ra is where we get amen.

The Sumerians talk of how the Annunaki (Alien race from Planet X -- You may Google it) created Adama and Eve by mixing their DNA with that of Homo Erectus in a place called Eden.


This list goes on and on, but it was a topic that I felt like sharing. Any additions/counters?

 

[Emperor Nero]

The Sumerians talk of how the Annunaki (Alien race from Planet X -- You may Google it) created Adama and Eve by mixing their DNA with that of Homo Erectus in a place called Eden.

No they didn't. Crazy conspiracy theorist said that. It would be better if you used correct information. The Sumerians had an advanced system based around their high priests that had nothing to do with ancient aliens from planet x.

Ra (or Amun-Ra) took the place of the first "God" Anu. The "amun" from Amun-Ra is where we get amen.

Wrong, Amen is of Hebrew etymology.

Both Romulus and Dionysus were born virgins.

Irrelevant, as neither are Gods or part of the Roman pantheon.



I could go on, but I have pointed out that it is clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. The simple fact that you fail to mention Roman mystery cults and the close similarities to certain eastern religions.

 

[Annex]

There are too many threads about this IMO.

 

[Emperor Nero]

There are too many threads about this IMO.

I agree. It has become ridiculous.

 

[W77]

No they didn't. Crazy conspiracy theorist said that. It would be better if you used correct information. The Sumerians had an advanced system based around their high priests that had nothing to do with ancient aliens from planet x.

A large percentage of the people who study the Sumerians agree on that, but it is up for discussion. For you to say that with such certainty is ridiculous. Until you read what they have written you can not say; everyone interprets it differently.

Wrong, Amen is of Hebrew etymology.

You can't say that with such certainty. The Hebrews could have gotten it elsewhere.

I could go on, but I have pointed out that it is clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. The simple fact that you fail to mention Roman mystery cults and the close similarities to certain eastern religions.

Please, go on then. Don't say that you know everything and what I've posted is of myth. Show me some proof of what you've said, as you seem to be pretty damn sure of yourself.
And of course I didn't cover everything there is to cover; I never claimed that I had. On on top of that, my theories make it much easier to explain the similarities than yours.

 

[TheNinja209]

No they didn't. Crazy conspiracy theorist said that. It would be better if you used correct information. The Sumerians had an advanced system based around their high priests that had nothing to do with ancient aliens from planet x

He is in fact right supporting details:

According to these theories of Sumerian cosmology, Nibiru was the twelfth member in the solar system family of planets (which includes 10 planets, the Sun, and the Moon). Its catastrophic collision with Tiamat, a planet that was between Mars and Jupiter, would have formed the planet Earth, the asteroid belt, and the Moon.
This was the result of one of Nibiru’s host satellites colliding with Tiamat, appropriately leaving half a planet, comparable to our Pangea (our current knowledge of all the continents as one land mass), and leaving deeps rifts in the crust beneath the Pacific ocean. It was until recently thought impossible for such large celestial bodies to collide due to intense magnetic force, however, this concept has been given a new life since the introduction of the Orpheus Theory, and the simulation of a collision between objects such as our own earth, and an object half it’s size.
It was the home of a technologically advanced human-like alien race, the Anunnaki of Sumerian myth, who, Sitchin claims, survived and later came to Earth. Sitchin has also transcribed that their travelling to earth was the result of their failing atmosphere (having since been drawn into our solar system from its cosmic passing, the atmosphere of Nibiru was subjected to intense external stress from our sun).
They came in search of gold particles used for their reflective properties (recognized even today by Nasa who plate various objects including astronaut helmet eyeshields) to place in their atmosphere. According to Sitchin, they subsequently genetically engineered our species, originally as slave workers to work in their gold mines, by crossing their genes with those of Homo erectus.
The Anunnaki (“those who from heaven came to earth” in Sumerian) came upon evolution on earth as it had been progressing for billions of years however, they desired to create a worker who could communicate and learn from them. After a slew of failed prototypes an Anunnaki goddess engineered a perfect specimen- the Adam. This was done using 80% of the Inferior specimen and 20% of the superior Anunnaki specimen. It is only recently that we understand DNA as having a double-helix nature, The Sumerians depicted their goddess creator along with snakes in a double helix form with thin bars connecting between them in a spiral fashion. The intertwined snakes are also modern day representatives for the field of medicine.
Sitchin says some sources speak about the same planet, possibly being a brown dwarf star and still in a highly elliptic orbit around the Sun, with a perihelion passage some 3,600 years ago and assumed orbital period of about 3,600 to 3,760 years or 3,741 years.
Sitchin attributes these figures to astronomers of the Maya civilization. Many involved in research of this kind predict a return date of Nibiru passing Earth coinciding with the Winter Solstice of 2012; specifically at 11.11 UT, 21st December 2012.
This also coincides with a rare alignment of the Earth, Sun and centre of the Milky Way , and is asserted to be likely to cause a pole shift. However, scientists argue that a planet with such an orbit would eventually either develop a circular orbit or fly off into space and overwhelmingly consider Sitchin’s claims to be pseudoscience.
The similar orbit of 2000 CR105, however, is accepted by scientists. A brown dwarf with a period of 3,760 years would be clearly evident through infrared and gravitational observations. And it has been. In 1993 Nasa launched the IRAS telescope which picked up the faint image of a large celestial body 3 times the distance of Pluto in our own solar system. In the press conference, the two scientists one named Gerry Neugebauer said that these objects could be “almost anything, from a tenth planet in our solar system to distant galaxies”.
Later much deeper images were taken, and some of the objects were found to be dense gas clouds in our own Galaxy, while others turned out to be very distant galaxies. In fact, these observations heralded the discovery of a new type of object: Ultra-luminous Infrared Galaxies (ULIRGs).
These are galaxies in which there is a burst of stars being born. The cocoons of dust in which the stars are enshrouded generates copious infrared, which is what was detected by IRAS. They published these results in the prestigious Astrophysical Journal.
Another interesting discovery also brought Nibiru into light recently. Eris, the largest known dwarf planet has been discovered on the 21st of October 2003, announced in July 2005 and officially named from 2003 UB313 to “136199 Eris” in 2006.
Originally it was considered as the tenth planet of our Solar System, but in April 2006, according to the new, more precise definition of the term “planet”, it has been designated as a “dwarf planet” along with Pluto and Ceres. Eris has an orbital period of 556.7 years, and currently lies at almost its maximum possible distance from the Sun (aphelion) and will enter Pisces in 2036.

Wrong, Amen is of Hebrew etymology.

.

Supported Amen is of Hebrew etymology. But someone could easily google that others could also support there fact from beginning time that is has came from somewhere else i would love to see more facts about the ROOT word amen:

I could go on, but I have pointed out that it is clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. The simple fact that you fail to mention Roman mystery cults and the close similarities to certain eastern religions.

You havnt really proved anything exept for the fact that your good at using search engines. Supply us with some proof backing up all your statements. Give us alittle bit of what you are thinking and then some of us might say you did something. History is not an argument. Support what you say or shut the hell up. History is a valuable part of life has no wrong or right. What you support another could just break down with details, Flaws that you might have never knew about. " its history kid " All you basically proved is that you know nothing "arrogance". Failure to listen, learn from what he posted seek enlightenment.

Im still looking into all of this. This topic is quite new to me. Ill have more information later on. Also look into my links they could teach alot. Ive also looked up other things that might help support many people thoughts.

 

[Emperor Nero]

A large percentage of the people who study the Sumerians agree on that, but it is up for discussion. For you to say that with such certainty is ridiculous. Until you read what they have written you can not say; everyone interprets it differently.

A large amount of people don't say that. A large amount of conspiracy theorist say that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anunnaki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth
Mentions nothing of Adam and Ever

What you are describing is a book by David Icke that Ancient Alien theorist, non experts, use as an example.

Icke introduced the reptoid hypothesis in The Biggest Secret (1999), which identified the Brotherhood as descendents of reptilians from the constellation Draco, who walk on two legs and appear human, and who live in tunnels and caverns inside the earth. He argues that the reptilians are the race of gods known as the Anunnaki in the Babylonian creation myth, Enûma Eliš. According to Barkun, Icke's idea of "inner-earth reptilians" is not new, though he has done more than most to expand it.

Lewis and Kahn write that Icke has taken his "ancient astronaut" narrative from the Israeli-American writer, Zecharia Sitchin, who argued—for example in Divine Encounters (1995)—that the Anunnaki had come to Earth for its precious metals. Icke argues that they came specifically for "monoatomic gold," a mineral he says can increase the carrying capacity of the nervous system ten thousandfold. After ingesting it, the reptilians can process vast amounts of information, speed up trans-dimensional travel, and shapeshift from reptilian to human form. They use human fear, guilt, and aggression as energy. "Thus we have the encouragement of wars," he wrote in 1999, "human genocide, the mass slaughter of animals, sexual perversions which create highly charged negative energy, and black magic ritual and sacrifice which takes place on a scale that will stagger those who have not studied the subject."[46] Lewis and Kahn argue that Icke is using allegory to depict the alien, and alienating, nature of global capitalism.

Icke writes that the Anunnaki have crossbred with human beings, the breeding lines chosen for political reasons, arguing that they are the Watchers, the fallen angels, or "Grigori," who mated with human women in the Biblical apocrypha. Their first reptilian-human hybrid, possibly Adam, was created 200,000–300,000 years ago. There was a second breeding program 30,000 years ago, and a third 7,000 years ago. It is the half-bloods of the third breeding program who today control the world, more Anunnaki than human, he writes. They have a powerful, hypnotic stare, the origin of the phrase to "give someone the evil eye," and their hybrid DNA allows them to shapeshift when they consume human blood.[48]

In Children of the Matrix (2001), he added that the Anunnaki bred with another extraterrestrial race called the "Nordics," who had blond hair and blue eyes, to produce a race of human slave masters, the Aryans. The Aryans retain many reptilian traits, including cold-blooded attitudes, a desire for top-down control, and an obsession with ritual, lending them a tendency toward fascism, rationalism, and racism. Lewis and Kahn write that, with the Nordic hypothesis, Icke is mirroring standard claims by the far right that the Aryan bloodline has ruled the Earth throughout history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

You can't say that with such certainty. The Hebrews could have gotten it elsewhere.

You don't get what Etymology means do you? Etymology is a structure of language and how words are built and how words are originated.

Etymology

The usage of Amen, meaning "so be it", as found in the early scriptures of the Bible is said to be of Hebrew origin; however, the basic triconsonantal root from which the word was derived is common to a number of Semitic Languages such as Aramaic and Arabic. The word was imported into the Greek of the early Church from Judaism. From Greek, amen entered the other Western languages. According to a standard dictionary etymology, amen passed from Greek into Late Latin, and thence into English.

The Hebrew word amen derives from the same ancient triliteral Hebrew root as does the verb ʾāmán. Grammarians frequently list ʾāmán under its three consonants (aleph-mem-nun), which are identical to those of ʾāmēn (note that the Hebrew letter א aleph originally represented a glottal stop sound, which functioned as a consonant in the morphology of Hebrew). This triliteral root means to be firm, confirmed, reliable, faithful, have faith, believe.

In Arabic, the word is derived from its triliteral common root word ʾĀmana (Arabic: آمن&#8206, which has the same meanings as the Hebrew root word.

Popular among some theosophists,proponents of Afrocentric theories of history, and adherents of esoteric Christianity is the conjecture that amen is a derivative of the name of the Egyptian god Amun (which is sometimes also spelled Amen). Some adherents of Eastern religions believe that amen shares roots with the Hindu Sanskrit word, Aum.There is no academic support for either of these views. The Hebrew word, as noted above, starts with aleph, while the Egyptian name begins with a yodh.

The Armenian word ամեն /ˌɑːmˈɛn/ means "every"; however it is also used in the same form at the conclusion of prayers, much as in English.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen


If you don't want Wikipedia articles I can also easily find more articles.

 

[TheNinja209]

A large amount of people don't say that. A large amount of conspiracy theorist say that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anunnaki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_creation_myth
Mentions nothing of Adam and Ever

What you are describing is a book by David Icke that Ancient Alien theorist, non experts, use as an example.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke



You don't get what Etymology means do you? Etymology is a structure of language and how words are built and how words are originated.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen


If you don't want Wikipedia articles I can also easily find more articles.

I love alot of the supporting facts: As i havnt looked all of them over but or the most part some are supported. Also i would really love to hear some of what you actually have to say about this. Once again not search engines. Read take in and write. Actually read what you posted come up with a moral and let's hear it.

Really looking forward to more of your post. You seem to be into the topic but i really dont like reading from other website. I love to hear others opinion and seek out information from within oneself.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I love alot of the supporting facts: As i havnt looked all of them over but or the most part some are supported. Also i would really love to hear some of what you actually have to say about this. Once again not search engines. Read take in and write. Actually read what you posted come up with a moral and let's hear it.

Really looking forward to more of your post. You seem to be into the topic but i really dont like reading from other website. I love to hear others opinion and seek out information from within oneself.

I am not sure what you want, but I will give you a tl;dr of why that theory is wrong.

It's clearly all illogical. First the theory assumes that humans first roamed the earth 200,000 - 300,000 years ago. Easily defeated. Homo Erectus began roaming the earth over 1.8 million years ago. (http://www.stanford.edu/~harryg/protected/chp22.htm) Next the Anunnaki in Sumerian religion had no base set of gods. Instead each City State had their own god that they worshiped and that each City State was built around. Their cities were built around something called Ziggurats which were large temples at the heart of the city that were the center of the theocratic government system.

Anunnaki

The majority of Sumerian deities belonged to a classification called the Anunna (“[offspring] of An”), whereas seven deities, including Enlil and Inanna, belonged to a group of “underworld judges" known as the Anunnaki (“[offspring] of An” + Ki). During the Third Dynasty of Ur, the Sumerian pantheon was said to include sixty times sixty (3600) deities.

and

The Anunnaki (also transcribed as: Anunna, Anunnaku, Ananaki and other variations) are a group of Mesopotamian (Sumerian, Akkadian, Assyrian and Babylonian) deities. The name is variously written "da-nuna", "da-nuna-ke4-ne", or "da-nun-na", meaning something to the effect of "those of royal blood" or 'princely offspring'. Their relation to the group of gods known as the Igigi is unclear — at times the names are used synonymously but in the Atra-Hasis flood myth they have to work for the Anunnaki, rebelling after 40 days and replaced by the creation of humans

The Anunnaki were used throughout several of the Mesopotamian area creation myths including both Babylonian and Assyrian myth.

I believe that we have become sufficiently off topic in this discussion though.

 

[Jimmy]

I'm a gnostic atheist myself

How do you justify knowing there is no god?

The Egyptian God Osiris is said to bring his believers eternal life in Heaven.

Only the gods resided in heaven; in Egyptian mythology, all people went to the underworld after death, of which Osiris was the ruler.

Attis was born in December 25th by a virgin, and he was considered the savior who was slain for the salvation of mankind. His body as bread was eaten by his worshippers. He was both the Divine Son and the Father. On “Black Friday,” he was crucified on a tree, from which his holy blood ran down to redeem the earth. He descended into the underworld. After three days, Attis was resurrected.

Christ parallels are definitely overstated.

The Sumerians talk of how the Annunaki (Alien race from Planet X -- You may Google it) created Adama and Eve by mixing their DNA with that of Homo Erectus in a place called Eden.

It's amazing that the Sumerians would speak of Adam and Eve, considering that those are Hebrew words for first man and first woman. It similarly boggles the mind to consider how a people group that lived several thousand years ago knew not only about the existence of a species that wasn't rediscovered until the late 19th century, but also DNA and, presumably, genetics.

This list goes on and on, but it was a topic that I felt like sharing. Any additions/counters?

It's all nonsense.

Until you read what they have written you can not say; everyone interprets it differently.

You have actual primary source evidence to back up your claims?

You can't say that with such certainty. The Hebrews could have gotten it elsewhere.

Do you have any evidence of a linguistic connection, or are you simply speculating?

Please, go on then. Don't say that you know everything and what I've posted is of myth. Show me some proof of what you've said, as you seem to be pretty damn sure of yourself.

You're making inflated claims without any evidence; if you wish to be taken seriously, the onus is on you to provide justification.

 

[TheNinja209]

How do you justify knowing there is no god?

You really dong have to justify it. "You think about it your a man im a man. Kill yourself and see how fast you rise from hell "

Sorry God = Not supported.

It's all nonsense.

To you its is but to some of us its worth debating about. Why comment over non sense ? You obviously thought it wasn't by commenting,


Please anybody using this GOD name show me some proofs: "exactly it cant be done" if i kill you your dead you don't rise 7 days later your a man gtfo..... lol how funny in my book.

 

[Emperor Nero]

You really dong have to justify it. "You think about it your a man im a man. Kill yourself and see how fast you rise from hell "

Sorry God = Not supported.




To you its is but to some of us its worth debating about. Why comment over non sense ? You obviously thought it wasn't by commenting,


Please anybody using this GOD name show me some proofs: "exactly it cant be done" if i kill you your dead you don't rise 7 days later your a man gtfo..... lol how funny in my book.

I am not sure what you're arguing. You make no sense what-so-ever. Your posts are nonsensical and really have a lacking semblance of an argument.

 

[TheNinja209]

I am not sure what you're arguing. You make no sense what-so-ever. Your posts are nonsensical and really have a lacking semblance of an argument.

How do you justify knowing there is no god?

You really dong have to justify it. "You think about it your a man im a man. Kill yourself and see how fast you rise from hell "

Sorry God = Not supported.

It's all nonsense.

To you its is but to some of us its worth debating about. Why comment over non sense ? You obviously thought it wasn't by commenting,


Please anybody using this GOD name show me some proofs: "exactly it cant be done" if i kill you your dead you don't rise 7 days later your a man gtfo..... lol how funny in my book.

I was not arguing I was looking for peoples fact's. Read before you write. Scroll up farther to see my argument....