Suicide, is it fair? [SENSITIVE]

Firstly, if you're reading this and want/need advice relating to suicide, please click here: Feeling Upset, depressed, angry, alone and Suicidal? Click for Links/Numbers

This is not a thread to speak about the issues you are facing in order to receive help/ ask for advice. If you do need to speak to someone, then visit: http://www.sythe.org/personal-support/

This is a sensitive discussion, please do not try to be insensitive to others views/opinions/experiences.
If you do not have anything nice to say, do not respond.
If your views differ from another, it doesn't mean it's wrong or right.
It is your personal view. Which is generally accepted.​

The Question:

Is committing suicide fair, to those who love you, your neighbour, (community/family/friends).

"Is it fair?": Is taking your own life a good and fair thing for those who are around you, that care for you.

Have you been in a situation where you have felt suicidal, alone.
What were your thoughts? Did you think of how it may affect others?

Have you known someone who has committed suicide, do you think it was fair that they did?

(These are general questions, in order to explain the the main question.
These do not need to be answered, as they may be very sensitive)


The different Arguments:

From what I've learnt, there seem's to be two sides/arguments brought up with regards to the above question.

Those who have relatives/friends who have committed suicide, may believe/think/feel:

1. They could of sought help. It is unfair that they took their lives and now we have to suffer knowing so.
   
2. It was extremely sad that they felt the only help was to commit suicide. I hope they found their peace.

Outside view: can be a mixture or either of the above.


What is Suicide?

Definition:

Suicide is the act of deliberately killing oneself. Risk factors for suicide include mental disorder (such as depression, personality disorder, alcohol dependence, or schizophrenia), and some physical illnesses, such as neurological disorders, cancer, and HIV infection.
[WHO | Suicide]
www.who.int/topics/suicide/en/

noun
1.
the intentional taking of one's own life.
2.
destruction of one's own interests or prospects:
Buying that house was financial suicide.
3.
a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.
verb (used without object), suicided, suiciding.
4.
to commit suicide.
verb (used with object), suicided, suiciding.
5.
to kill (oneself).

Why? What are the causes?

There are many reasons why people may commit suicide including;

1. Depression
2. Life History/Child-Hood
3. Relationships
4. Employment
5. Lifestyle
6. Cry for Help
7. Genetics/Family History
8. Mental Health
9. Bullying
10. Many Many Many More.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Suicide/Pages/Causes.aspx
http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2014/07/23/15-common-causes-of-suicide-why-do-people-kill-themselves/
http://www.thehopeline.com/why-people-commit-suicide/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate


Personal Views / Experience:

My personal view on whether people who commit suicide being fair or not, is firmly within the second argument stated above. I believe it is a very sad and somewhat unforgiving action to leave this world in that way, however I am very sympathetic of those who choose that exit strategy.

My view stems from both, my moral values, religious teachings, and general life experiences.

- My religion teaches me that committing suicide is a major sin, that you will suffer the punishment similar to that of the actions committed on yourself. With this viewpoint, (for my own self) I would strongly never commit that upon myself.

- Although for others who take that route, my moral values teaches me to be sympathetic of those who feel their is no way out, when they feel they can't seek help, that they have a burden, and are at a emotional point in their life.

- My viewpoint with this is that, although it is a sinful action to my own religion and that they shouldn't have done such an action. I still feel and have empathy with those who do, and if they felt/feel it is the only way and have committed that action, then it may not be fair to you or I, but it is their life to choose.

- I would therefore wish they found their peace, and hope *as I'm a believer*, that God forgives them.

I have two experiences which also bring affect onto my above viewpoint.
One of a family member committing suicide and another where I have been in similar positions (wont go into detail with that).

My relative (family member - who lives abroad), suffered from mental illness as a result of a divorce, and was tortured, in some way or form by other distant relatives. My relative (possibly) escaped and found that committing suicide was the only way out. I was young when this happened. All I can remember was my family wouldn't believe it was suicide, and as they (my relative) were tortured/bullied in some form, believed they were murdered rather then them committing suicide. Although it would have been understandable to know if it was suicide, due to a phone call a day before, however we were unfortunately unable to realise my relatives full intentions.

My view on this is; I hope God forgives them, I hope they found their peace, because if ending their life was an answer to all their pain, if it was easier then living and suffering, then I can only wish and pray for them.

My own experience: (Wont be too detailed)

I have always had family members to whom I can speak to if I have "down days".
If something is depressing me, (rather then taking medications) I simply stop, the thing which is causing me to be depressed. Examples; Bad relationships.
The thought of the impact it may have on my family members, strongly deters me from doing anything harmful to myself.
My religion is a key aspect in deterring as well.

For my personal experience, I do believe it would be unfair for my family if they had to go through that, so I wouldn't wish to burden them with that.

--
For other people, I feel it is an unfair action, but it is their lives to have decided. Although this is seen as the obstacle in where the argument differ.

"It is unfair for someone to kill themselves" - "They shouldn't kill themselves!"
"I hope they found peace" - "I wished they'd ask me for help"

Thank You for Reading and I hope to learn what are other viewpoints / arguments on this topic.


What are your viewpoints? Opinions? Experiences?
Do you think it is fair?

Remember: This is a sensitive discussion, please do not try to be insensitive to others views/opinions/experiences.
If you do not have anything nice to say, do not respond.
If your views differ from another, it doesn't mean it's wrong or right.
It is your personal view, which is generally accepted.​

 

[rebirth2316]

I used to believe that your life was yours to do with as you please, and that others should have no opinion on the matter.

Then I became a father, and I don't think now that anything in this world is worth her life. Not even the toughest challenges.

I've spent over three years of my life at a young age dealing with tremendous difficulties and I know that anyone can make it through.

With that being said, giving up completely due to these situations is NOT fair to those who love you. Those who would give their own lives just to see you in brighter days...

 

[tMoon]

If someone has never experienced the desire to kill themselves, I believe it is very difficult to even attempt to relate to their position. Conjecture about one's feelings about a situation they have no knowledge of provides little argument.

I have always had family members to whom I can speak to if I have "down days".

"Down days" is very seldom what pushes someone to suicide and many people do not have individuals they believe they can confide in.

If something is depressing me, (rather then taking medications) I simply stop, the thing which is causing me to be depressed. Examples; Bad relationships.

Perhaps it's just how I read it (as if there is something negative about it), but there is nothing wrong with taking medication. Some people need help.

You don't "simply stop" depression. There is a difference between being sad over a breakup, and being depressed; furthermore, there are differences between situational and clinical depression. Situational being well, involving a situation, and clinical involving brain chemistry that is messed up (ex: lacking amounts of serotonin). While state of mind may help, you do not just "get over" depression. This is not an option and if people could just "get over" it, they would.

Is committing suicide fair, to those who love you, your neighbour, (community/family/friends).

Suicide isn't about other people, it's about oneself. Is it fair to others that you'll likely leave a hole where you once were? No. When it comes down to it, the individual who kills themselves believes whatever it is is too much, has weighed the impact of said decision, and believes it is the only decision left for them to make. Now, do I think it's the right decision? Most-likely not.

But is it fair to make an individual live in a world they don't want to live in?

 

Coming from past experience, I feel it is quite selfish. I understand what some people will say, "You don't understand what it's like". That is entirely false, won't delve into that anymore.

The fact of the matter is that this will affect everyone around you. You can say your parents don't love you, you don't have any friends, etc., but they do love you. If they didn't, they would kick you out of the house for being a moneysink. But that's aside the point. I've experienced a feew suicides, and it tears families apart. They may of not had a picture perfect life, but they were managing just fine. Even in the case where her parents weren't attentive in the slightest, they still were devastated. The mother went into a deep depression for a long while, and the dad basically became a drunk to cope with it. That was a wake up call, about their poor parenting style, that they should not have had to experience. So yes, it is selfish. People care about you, and people love you. There are always people that you mean the world to.

 

[Mootrucks]

As a person who has suffered with depression for two years, I can tell you down days won't contribute to you thinking about actually going through with suicide, and i'm also glad that you have religion to turn to.

Now lets get on with the question, suicide, is it fair? Suicide isn't something that just happens over night, it's something that is though about for in most cases, a very long time; sometimes years. While suicide will leave your loved ones and friends a big mess, there's only so much one person can take till they reach their breaking point, suicide shouldn't be looked at as selfish and personally as i'm not religious i don't look at it as a sin either.

Is it fair to make someone continue suffering just because you can't handle what will probably be nothing compared to what they were going through in most cases?

 

Perhaps it's just how I read it (as if there is something negative about it), but there is nothing wrong with taking medication. Some people need help.

You don't "simply stop" depression. There is a difference between being sad over a breakup, and being depressed; furthermore, there are differences between situational and clinical depression. Situational being well, involving a situation, and clinical involving brain chemistry that is messed up (ex: lacking amounts of serotonin). While state of mind may help, you do not just "get over" depression. This is not an option and if people could just "get over" it, they would.

I would just like to point out, I don't take medications due to child-hood related traumatic experiences and the fear of swallowing medication. It was in no way related to the specifications of why people may need medications.

Not sure I personally stated that anyone gets over depression, by just stopping it. I meant more or less that my methods of helping depression to not resolve into suicidal thoughts is to stop what is affecting depression. As in to stop what the cause may be, which doesn't in essence mean depression is being stopped. Simply being helped. In some cases relationships, breaks ups aren't the only cause in giving someone depression, anxiety etc. Once again my personal experience was not detailed / defined at all.

As a person who has suffered with depression for two years, I can tell you down days won't contribute to you thinking about actually going through with suicide, and i'm also glad that you have religion to turn to.

Just to point out again, my personal experiences were not defined. My definition of down days may differ to others. What I meant by "down days", is when the burden, the stress, and anxiety of everything, which has been building up over a length of time, suddenly slips over the line to where it becomes unbearable. These days are were you physically, emotionally and mentally breakdown as a result. Those days may differ to people based on how a person can control themselves and how high the pressure line is in their lives.

 

[zorro_]

It's a terrible blow to loved ones - that's never going to change. But at the end of the day, what you do with yourself should be up to you so long as your action does not damage other people's rights.

 

[Duff]

I personally think it's down to the person. I know this may sound horrible, but to take your life there must be something terrible going on.

Yes, there is the counter-argument that friends and family are affected heavily, but to take your own life; you must be in a bad way.

A friend of mine committed suicide, and all friends and family were devastated. It's sad really but who knows what the person must be going through.

It's a hard topic to discuss.

 

[Shadexpwn]

Most people who commit suicide wanna know what happens after you die once they get to the point of no return and isolate themselves from norms once praised and cherished.

 

[tMoon]

To commit suicide you need to have pshycological problems.

Not true at all, there are multiple forms of suicide (altruistic, fatalistic, egoistic, and anomic) and many of them can occur w/o there being any physiological problems.

 

[Dracon]

Not true at all, there are multiple forms of suicide (altruistic, fatalistic, egoistic, and anomic) and many of them can occur w/o there being any physiological problems.

It's true that there are multiple forms of suicide, but by far the vast majority of victims have some form of mental illness (depression, bipolar, psychosis, etc.).

 

[tMoon]

It's true that there are multiple forms of suicide, but by far the vast majority of victims have some form of mental illness (depression, bipolar, psychosis, etc.).

While I don't doubt it, feel free to site said claim.

 

Im not entirely sure why, but I would lean more so towards majority having a mental illness. However it is not true that you, "need to have psychological problems" in order to commit suicide. Some thrill-seekers often go to extra lengths which can result in suicide, doesn't mean they have a mental illness or psychological problem.

 

[tMoon]

Im not entirely sure why, but I would lean more so towards majority having a mental illness. However it is not true that you, "need to have psychological problems" in order to commit suicide. Some thrill-seekers often go to extra lengths which can result in suicide, doesn't mean they have a mental illness or psychological problem.

That would be an accidental death, suicide is the purposeful taking of ones' life.

 

[SaraBoss]

If you try to get help and try to overcome the depression (honestly try) and nothing is changing for long periods of time (years) I would say it's fine if you're genuinely suffering. and I'm sure if you wrote a note to your loved ones saying how you honestly felt, then they would understand.

 

[Dracon]

While I don't doubt it, feel free to site said claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide#Mental_disorders
http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=497155
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(99)06376-X/abstract?cc=y=

If you try to get help and try to overcome the depression (honestly try) and nothing is changing for long periods of time (years) I would say it's fine if you're genuinely suffering. and I'm sure if you wrote a note to your loved ones saying how you honestly felt, then they would understand.

Depression is a disease, and diseases can be managed. If a depressed person kills themselves, it's generally not a rational decision, it's succumbing to a disease.

 

[Solpi]

I feel neutral on the whole suicide thing, not against it or for it. But if I were, I'd say it really isn't fair to family members, but I don't think you should worry about anyone when actually planning a successful suicide (because of course there are people purposely failing just to see people's reactions to their attempt) since when you're dead there's nothing to worry about anyway, just write them a note and say what you need to say if you need to say anything.

People say suicide is not an option or solution but in reality - it is. It always is, there's just other, more realistic and probably smarter and less cowardly solutions. Actually, I personally think suicide is half cowardly and half honorable, depending on what you're killing yourself for.

I currently get all the professional help you can get, group therapy, therapy, friends who love me, medication, other things I can't think of at the top of my mind at the moment. I've been 'suffering' with depression and general anxiety for the past 5 maybe 6 years. My therapists have been telling me I have sociopathic tendencies, and frankly I disagree with them (even though they're professionals) because I have the literal same affect on everyone besides my family and extremely close friends. I come off as rude and my face always looks sad even though I'm actually content.. I've always been content. I never had any regrets and the only reason for my self destructive behavior are my impulses. My parents do not think I need professional help as they know that I don't listen to them because I've already realized everything on my own, it's just that I need time to be sad and vent all my feelings out to myself. But of course as a minor I'm obligated to stay in therapy until I 'get better'. And I've told them multiple times but my arrogance and egotistical episodes and my hatred that runs deep for ignorance sets me back. I always have to prove people wrong. I can't just let go of an argument if I still have something to say about it. I'm not suicidal anymore, that was so two years ago. Just self-destructive and still impulsive to hurt myself.

Hm, I guess that describes my current situation regarding mental health at the moment. My actual experiences include; two overdoses (which led to a really really really bad fever which I will never want to experience again), one trip to the mad house, and severe cutting (by severe I mean actually hitting arteries or nerves anytime I do cut myself, which is actually barely). I only cut myself every couple months, 6-8 months at most.
When I describe my experiences I always have to describe the time I went to the mental hospital since I've met the greatest people there. Badasses, runaways, in-the-closet but open there gays.. pretty much people I don't see normally within my everyday life or at all, really. I live in a jewish neighborhood lol.

Anyway, to describe myself to conclude this.. I, in my opinion, have a pretty good life. Mental illness really never stopped me from doing what I want to do, unless you call laziness a mental illness. I have few friends, well, I have a lot of friends, I just don't like them. I could make friends extremely easily as my personality is chill, adaptable, and sociable, but I feel like it's too much effort, which I guess may be coming from my depression but still, I don't care much about the things that people expect me to care about. The things that actually triggered my depression (which was hereditary I think), are people. Not just people (even though I have strong and negative opinions about humanity, not necessarily society however - just humanity.), but people I loved dearly and have betrayed me. To generalize it I'm not the type of person to get over breakups.

 

[uJesternWind]

Im not entirely sure why, but I would lean more so towards majority having a mental illness. However it is not true that you, "need to have psychological problems" in order to commit suicide. Some thrill-seekers often go to extra lengths which can result in suicide, doesn't mean they have a mental illness or psychological problem.

In fact, whether or not you have a mental illness will be a large factor in a lot of cases. For example, having a mental illness and committing suicide could potentially mean that you did not have the mental capability to make that judgement for yourself, and vice versa for those without mental illnesses.

Useful in cases of euthanasia and autopsies.

 

[Snowbunnies]

Suicide reminds me of people rage quitting from a videogame. They like to say whatever, but when someone goes to comfort them and listen to their problems they feel a lot better and probably go back to their lives. When people do not get these sort of novelties, they resort to a bitter end, because they can't handle the world for what it is. Truly a waste of potential, but I believe suicide is a side-effect of narcissism, because at the root when your image is destroyed by a tragic event and it can't be rebuilt, people are driven to despair and no one can pick up the pieces and fit them back together before that event happened.

A lot of suicides happen because people aren't educated in life enough, they are thrown into a high-stress situation and many people would fail, because they aren't prepared. Suicide is their own fault in my own opinion. They don't ask or seek help or when they do, they expect the other person to fully understand their problems and when that other person doesn't they use it to justify their despair. If that isn't narcissism then I don't know what is. I do not feel the least bit sorry for the people who commit suicide, but only for those who are about to because they came to me or someone else with SERIOUS intent for help. The friends and family that are left behind should be mad and not sad. The person didn't think about them as a priority, but only thought of themselves, because of something that could have been resolved. ANYTHING can be resolved whether or not you just came through a divorce or you lost everything, there are people around you that can help out of good will or public image.

My conclusion is people lack determination, empowerment, and humility these days. they think they can take on the world by themselves and if it doesn't work for them, they rage quit from planet earth. truly pitiful.

 

[deadmou5e]

i feel like it's the persons choice to do as they want with their own body. however it's a low blow to their loved ones. but you don't know what's going through their head at the given time