"Transgender" = mentally ill

[Verd]

You're in the bathroom. Caitlyn Jenner walks up next to you at the urinal and takes a piss standing next to you. Do you still complain? Yes, yes you probably still complain. People just want something to complain about.

 

[Ritysayo]

It's no wonder you guys have 40% suicide attempt rates. You are not connected with reality if you believe that bathrooms are separated by who is most sexually dominant or who is clumsy.

It's not about being sexually dominant or clumsy; it is about allowing everyone access to a public bathroom that makes them feel comfortable. It is an awkward experience when you appear to be a woman using the men's restroom having everyone stare or possibly ask you to leave. On the other side, it would be very awkward if you appear to be a man using a restroom with women that are screaming for you to get out. They're in a position where they're not able to use a bathroom, and trying to fight for the label that they feel most comfortable entering.

"flaming me the entire time"
I believe that is the frustration coming out of our words. I'll give you an example of your version of debate:

The wall is green.
People want to paint the wall blue.
Your argument is that the wall has always been green, we picked green for a reason.
The people's argument is that it is time for a change and want to match the rest of the room's color theme.
Your reply with the argument is that we already picked green for the color theme.
The people respond back with further reason on why we're trying to change the color theme.
You reply back with the argument that the wall is green, we already picked it for the color theme, and our responses are circular.


You're talking about a 40% suicidal rate, when in reality; that type of debate makes me want to smash my head against a wall. You ignore common sense and suggest unrealistic responses that don't contribute to the discussion.The weird thing is, you seem pretty intelligent in certain traits, which makes people want to explain it to you in a million different perspectives. We're not being circular in the same way you're trying to describe us; we're circular in the fact that we're trying to explain the same perspective in twenty different ways until it clicks in your mind. I believe you're arrogant and refuse to accept another perspective once you convinced yourself of a particular viewpoint.


P.S. Those type of debates are the version that trolls are known to commit themselves in order to make the people around them frustrated. You're using an elite troll's method of debating.

 

Yes you did, read your quote.

Which quote?

"Because it has more fluidity" is not an argument.

Yet, you completely ignore the example I gave and the reasoning.

Yes. You genitals are naked when pissing and shitting.

Reaching once again, you don't expose your genitals as you walk to the bathroom. This doesn't align with your "on sight" theory of being able to tell which gender is which before reaching the bathroom.

You did, read your quote.

Which quote? You keep telling me to read my quote, but cannot supply said quote.

He can feel free to post an argument just like you are free to post an argument any time you want to prove that bathrooms are separated by gender. Ritasyo repeated my true, valid argument as a rhetorical just like you did, which is not an argument or a rebuttal.

Gender is an euphemism for the sex of a human being. Referenced instead because the word is more flexible. Note how I never said bathrooms are separated by gender. If the symbols on the door referenced sex, then why are there "gender" bathroom rules for bathrooms the words used to offset the word sex? If by your understanding Gender means what you think it means, would that not make sense?

You have yet to answer why there would be two bathrooms if there was no way to tell genders apart. Anyway, you already conceded all of your original arguments that bathrooms are separated by gender, flaming me the entire time and taking 2 pages to define the term "Gender" on which your argument relies, only after me proving multiple times that your entire assertion relied on circular reasoning.

It's no wonder you guys have 40% suicide attempt rates. You are not connected with reality if you believe that bathrooms are separated by who is most sexually dominant or who is clumsy.

Who said there is no way to tell genders apart? Please supply this quotes of me saying this.

Who said bathrooms are separated by gender? Please supply this quote of me saying this.

Who said bathrooms are separated by who is most sexually dominant or who is clumsy? Who are "you guys"?

If you're going to troll, don't bother debating, you do this every time you're on the defensive, throwing strawmans everywhere in order to give arbitrary substance to your ridiculous arguments.

 

[Xier0]

Which quote?

You claimed that bathrooms are separated by gender and not sex in this quote:

I'm just saying the symbol on the door references gender, not sex, hence why "gender bathroom rules" are associated with bathrooms.

You claimed people who are females can have a male gender in this quote:

Your gender can be female, and your sex can be male.

Then you conceded and said:

Anywho, I wasn't justifying that because a male identifies as a female, they should be allowed to use a bathroom suited towards females.

Yet, you completely ignore the example I gave and the reasoning.

"Because Target does it" is not an argument. "Because it's more fluid" is not an argument. Here is an example of an argument which I used to prove that bathrooms are separated by sex:

My claim is that Male restrooms are for male organisms, and Female restrooms are for female organisms. I support this claim with the fact that restrooms have sex-specific differences between them, such as urinals and female waste bins. The reason there are two restrooms is because genitalia are used for both sexual and waste functions, and people value the privacy of their sexual parts and do not want to be exposed to sexual content of the opposite sex or be exposed as sexual content to the opposite sex each time they use the bathroom.

This doesn't align with your "on sight" theory of being able to tell which gender is which before reaching the bathroom.

Quote me where I claimed there were such things as genders, or that bathrooms were separated by genders, or that you could determine a person's gender on sight. Those are all YOUR CLAIMS. It's clear you haven't read my claim:

My claim is that Male restrooms are for male organisms, and Female restrooms are for female organisms. I support this claim with the fact that restrooms have sex-specific differences between them, such as urinals and female waste bins. The reason there are two restrooms is because genitalia are used for both sexual and waste functions, and people value the privacy of their sexual parts and do not want to be exposed to sexual content of the opposite sex or be exposed as sexual content to the opposite sex each time they use the bathroom.

Which quote? You keep telling me to read my quote, but cannot supply said quote.

The quote is what you RESPONDED TO, did you not read my post? I'll post it again:

Same gender = More familiarity, absence in judgment of biological worthiness

This is wanted in a personal setting.

It's the same reason why we feel more comfortable around family, those of the same ethnic background, or nationality.

You again failed to prove your claim that there would be two bathrooms separated by gender personality because people want to piss and shit in a personal setting with people who they are more familiar with, like their families.

Note how I never said bathrooms are separated by gender.

Yes you did here:

Yes, although the images on the door typically reference gender since there isn't a sex symbol (♂/♀) on the door. Gender isn't a biological classification.

And here:

I'm just saying the symbol on the door references gender, not sex, hence why "gender bathroom rules" are associated with bathrooms.

If the symbols on the door referenced sex, then why are there "gender" bathroom rules for bathrooms the words used to offset the word sex?

I never claimed there was such thing as gender or that bathrooms were separated by gender. I have claimed that bathrooms are separated by sex. YOUR claim is that there are gender bathroom rules, so yes, WHY ARE THERE "GENDER" BATHROOM RULES? FEEL FREE TO ANSWER YOUR CLAIM AT ANY POINT WITH AN ARGUMENT.

If by your understanding Gender means what you think it means, would that not make sense?

I never claimed there was such thing as gender or that bathrooms were separated by it. You are the one who has defined the concept of gender, and I am using your definition that you provided.

Who said there is no way to tell genders apart? Please supply this quotes of me saying this.

It's literally in the post you RESPONDED TO. Again,

It's not simple. A female can easily pass off as a male, and a male can easily pass off as a female

You never answered my question: How would I know if a female gendered person was pissing in the urinal next to me in a male gendered bathroom?

Who said bathrooms are separated by gender? Please supply this quote of me saying this.

Here:

Yes, although the images on the door typically reference gender since there isn't a sex symbol (♂/♀) on the door. Gender isn't a biological classification.

And here:

I'm just saying the symbol on the door references gender, not sex, hence why "gender bathroom rules" are associated with bathrooms.

Who said bathrooms are separated by who is most sexually dominant or who is clumsy?

You claimed bathrooms are separated by gender, which you defined as a blend of your biological sex, your internal sense of self, how dependent you are, how emotional you are, how passive you are, how sensitive you are, how quiet you are, how graceful you are, how innocent you are, how strong you are, how flirtatious you are, how nurturing you are, how self critical you are, how soft you are, how sexually dominant you are, how accepting you are, how clumsy you are, how experienced you are, and how rebellious you are.

Our culture recognizes two basic gender roles: Masculine (having the qualities attributed to males) and feminine (having the qualities attributed to females).

Female:

dependent
emotional
passive
sensitive
quiet
graceful
innocent
weak
flirtatious
nurturing
self-critical
soft
sexually submissive
accepting

Male:

independent
non-emotional
aggressive
tough-skinned
competitive
clumsy
experienced
strong
active
self-confident
hard sexually aggressive
rebellious

 

You claimed that bathrooms are separated by gender and not sex in this quote:

Where did I say or claim bathrooms are "separated" by gender? Stop with the strawman.

Then you conceded and said:

What did I concede?

Yes you did here:

I'm looking at the quotes. Tell me where I said "bathrooms are separated by gender"?

I never claimed there was such thing as gender or that bathrooms were separated by gender. I have claimed that bathrooms are separated by sex. YOUR claim is that there are gender bathroom rules, so yes, WHY ARE THERE "GENDER" BATHROOM RULES? FEEL FREE TO ANSWER YOUR CLAIM AT ANY POINT WITH AN ARGUMENT.

My claim is that the symbols on the door reference gender. Look up gender bathroom symbols.

I never claimed there was such thing as gender or that bathrooms were separated by it. You are the one who has defined the concept of gender, and I am using your definition that you provided.

Did I say you claimed such? How you perceive the definition of Gender would make no sense following the issuing of "Gender" bathroom rules.

It's literally in the post you RESPONDED TO. Again,

That was a response to your "on sight" remark. It's not possible to tell "on sight". It is possible by checking their genitals, but who is doing that before going to a bathroom?

You never answered my question: How would I know if a female gendered person was pissing in the urinal next to me in a male gendered bathroom?

Pretty sure they wouldn't be using a urinal, they would be using the toilet. One way to check would be to check their genitals, but isn't that sexual harassment? That's if of course they don't abide to your request to check. A bit creepy if you ask me.

You claimed bathrooms are separated by gender, which you dfined as a blend of your biological sex, your internal sense of self, how dependent you are, how emotional you are, how passive you are, how sensitive you are, how quiet you are, how graceful you are, how innocent you are, how strong you are, how flirtatious you are, how nurturing you are, how self critical you are, how soft you are, how sexually dominant you are, how accepting you are, how clumsy you are, how experienced you are, and how rebellious you are.

This is how I defined gender:

gen·der - the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

What you're posting is masculine and feminine qualities.

Continue to troll on.

 

[Xier0]

Where did I say or claim bathrooms are "separated" by gender? Tell me where I said "bathrooms are separated by gender"?

...It's your argument...

I gave you an explanation for why bathrooms were segregated in the US, and it's recognized as gendered base.

I gave you an explanation for why bathrooms were segregated in the US, and it's recognized as gendered base.

I gave you an explanation for why bathrooms were segregated in the US, and it's recognized as gendered base.

Pretty sure they wouldn't be using a urinal, they would be using the toilet. One way to check would be to check their genitals

So what genitals does a female gendered male have and what genitals does a male gendered male have?

This is how I defined gender: gen·der - the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

"The state of being male" is not a definition. You claimed gender roles were determined by masculine and feminine qualities:

Our culture recognizes two basic gender roles: Masculine (having the qualities attributed to males) and feminine (having the qualities attributed to females).

What you're posting is masculine and feminine qualities

You claimed masculine and feminine qualities determine your gender role:

Our culture recognizes two basic gender roles: Masculine (having the qualities attributed to males) and feminine (having the qualities attributed to females).

 

...It's your argument...

Again, not quite. I actually gave you a sourced quote explaining the origin of sex segregated bathrooms. My argument was and always has been that the symbols on the doors represent and are recognized as gender.

So what genitals does a female gendered male have and what genitals does a male gendered male have?

Female gendered male? Can you rephrase the question so that it makes more sense?

"The state of being male" is not a definition. You claimed gender roles were determined by masculine and feminine qualities

They are. Gender roles don't define the word gender, it's part of the break down. There were multiple subsets of gender which you seem to ignore to give arbitrary substance to your faulty arguments.

You claimed masculine and feminine qualities determine your gender role:

Read above.

 

[Xier0]

Again, not quite. I actually gave you a sourced quote explaining the origin of sex segregated bathrooms. My argument was and always has been that the symbols on the doors represent and are recognized as gender.

"I claim bathrooms have gender based segregation"

"Where did I claim bathrooms are separated by gender"

RIP.

Where did I say or claim bathrooms are "separated" by gender? Tell me where I said "bathrooms are separated by gender"?

I gave you an explanation for why bathrooms were segregated in the US, and it's recognized as gendered base.

-----

Female gendered male? Can you rephrase the question so that it makes more sense?

Your gender can be female, and your sex can be male.

You were the one that claimed there are female gendered males. What genitals do they have?

 

.....





-----





You were the one that claimed there are female gendered males. What genitals do they have?

I think you have a reading problem.

I gave you an explanation for why bathrooms were segregated in the US, and it's recognized as gendered base.

The explanation explained how sex segregated bathrooms came about. (Literally said sex-segregated in the quote). I was talking about symbols after the conjunction, it was pretty obvious otherwise I'd be contradicting myself.

You were the one that claimed there are female gendered males. What genitals do they have?

You could phrase it so it makes more sense.

A male who identifies as a female would have a penis.

 

[Xier0]

A male who identifies as a female would have a penis.

Pretty sure they wouldn't be using a urinal, they would be using the toilet. One way to check would be to check their genitals

So how does checking their genitals reveal their gender then?

 

So how does checking their genitals reveal their gender then?

You'd be checking for the sex of that person. Gender doesn't involve the biological makeup of a person.

 

[Xier0]

You'd be checking for the sex of that person. Gender doesn't involve the biological makeup of a person.

So how do I check their gender?

 

So how do I check their gender?

You ask.

 

[Xier0]

You ask.

Why would there be bathrooms separated by gender if you would have to ask everyone what their gender was? Do you think there would be someone standing at the bathroom door asking people what gender they were before going in to make sure people with male genders and female genders went in the right bathroom? Couldn't they lie about their gender?

 

Why would there be bathrooms separated by gender if you would have to ask everyone what their gender was? Do you think there would be someone standing at the bathroom door asking people what gender they were before going in to make sure people with male genders and female genders went in the right bathroom?

Again, who said bathrooms are separated by gender?

 

[Xier0]

Again, who said bathrooms are separated by gender?

I gave you an explanation for why bathrooms were segregated in the US, and it's recognized as gendered base.

I'm just saying the symbol on the door references gender, not sex, hence why "gender bathroom rules" are associated with bathrooms.

Yes, although the images on the door typically reference gender since there isn't a sex symbol (♂/♀) on the door. Gender isn't a biological classification.

So what are bathrooms separated by if you aren't claiming they are separated by gender?

 

So what are bathrooms separated by if you aren't claiming they are separated by gender?

I already told you bathrooms are segregated by sex, I even gave you the fully detailed origin on how US sex-segregated bathrooms came about. The overabundance of male bathrooms and lack of female bathrooms were the reason for the mass production of female bathrooms in many places. This ties into the lack of rights females had in the 1800s.

Here is the source.

 

[Xier0]

I already told you bathrooms are segregated by sex

Good. I'm glad you agree with my argument that Male restrooms are for male organisms, and Female restrooms are for female organisms.

 

Good. I'm glad you agree with my argument that Male restrooms are for male organisms, and Female restrooms are for female organisms.

Well technically I didn't agree. Your claim is that male bathrooms are for the male sex only, and female bathrooms are for the female sex only. While the separation of bathrooms are due to sex-segregation, it doesn't necessarily mean that "you can only use this bathroom if your genitals align with this sex". If it did, gender neutral bathrooms wouldn't exist and 2 sex bathrooms allowing you to use the bathroom you identify with also wouldn't be a thing, completely nullifying that narrative.

Do I support transgender people using whichever bathroom they want? I'm indifferent on this. On one hand I don't give a shit and on the other I can see it being a comfort issue.

 

[Logic]

Well technically I didn't agree. Your claim is that male bathrooms are for the male sex only, and female bathrooms are for the female sex only. While the separation of bathrooms are due to sex-segregation, it doesn't necessarily mean that "you can only use this bathroom if your genitals align with this sex". If it did, gender neutral bathrooms wouldn't exist and 2 sex bathrooms allowing you to use the bathroom you identify with also wouldn't be a thing, completely nullifying that narrative.

Do I support transgender people using whichever bathroom they want? I'm indifferent on this. On one hand I don't give a shit and on the other I can see it being a comfort issue.

At 1st I was like "who is this kiro guy and how could he have been a sectional mod" and then I read "previously known as ghast".

Seriously, you are so out of touch with reality that it's scary. Your replies are no more than a monkey thowing his shit around and claiming that he won the debate. Try to remember that some people read these topics to get some relavant information and please try to avoid from posting 2 pages of shit just to argee with the argument you were argueing against. I wish a mod gave you a warning for this load of spam that you created.

The whole idea behind genders is stupid. People who argue for genders of any sort should be dismissed on sight. Let's just stick with sex and be done with it. Knowing someones sex gives us a lot of info about that person, knowing someones gender is just a waste of time and resources. Yes, transgender or any other gender = mentally ill.