"Transgender" = mentally ill

Transgender is a touchy subject, you need to think about what that persons been through and whats brought them to the stage that they are at, more time its to so with the way they were brought up, E.g. if they were brought up with out a dad with alot of sisters, This would bring a more realistic understanding, or some transgender people says they felt "stuck inside the wrong body" meaning they felt like a girl or a boy from when they were born but born into the wrong sex.

 

Being comfortable around people who have the same personality as you doesn't explain why we would have two bathrooms separated by people's personalities.

How can you tell a female gendered person apart from a male gendered person? Both genders have faces and bodies, so saying "They have a female face" or "They have a male face" is still continuing your circular reasoning of never defining any objective characteristics of being a male or being a female.

 

Same gender = More familiarity, absence in judgment of biological worthiness

This is wanted in a personal setting.

It's the same reason why we feel more comfortable around family, those of the same ethnic background, or nationality.

Do men and women walk around naked? No. How would you determine which gender is which by "first sight"? You're reaching really hard to find an answer that is impractical to what you're asking.

 

I skimmed these, but it seems like cherry-picking and a bit of hypocrisy when they throw around words like "subjective," especially considering they purport somehow the entire stance is based off a single paper and not his collective experience. Also, I somewhat expected to see "rebuttals" that used the exception fallacy, believing that because "androgen-insensitivity syndrome" exists, that the exception to the rule of nature therefore is somehow above all.

Perhaps in their minds these arguments hold water, but to me and others, it's desperation to defend their own biological delusions.

I should have probably prefaced this with saying that I also don't really care what people do with their own bodies. If someone wants to chop off their penis to be more "female," by all means. However, when this type of mental state is being propagated as perfectly normal and is forced upon society, that's where things need to end.

Whether it's seen as a mental illness is something that shouldn't be up for debate. People can flail their arms and scream using cherry-picked and exception fallacy arguments all they want, but at the end of the day, you are a man or you are a woman. Mutilating yourself to appear more female/male doesn't negate that fact. In fact, if someone goes that far, people should be asking why. Not appeasing people that "feel" they are a woman.

If you "feel" you are anything other than what you were born as, there is a serious mental problem.

It's a marvel to me how our society is so open to accepting an individuals delusions that drive them to the point that they will remove entire bodily parts.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...s/news-story/8f0891b40b8387c0c29db222e3b1711f

This is another very good example of mental illness, and where I want to ask, is this where you draw the line? Or for those who support these mental illnesses, is it okay for someone to have their limbs surgically removed because they "feel" like it doesn't belong to them.

No, most people would say that you are mentally disturbed, something is very wrong in order for someone to want to remove their bodily parts. The same logic applies to both circumstances, and this should never be looked at as something acceptable, or a perfectly healthy mental state.

 

So why would bathrooms be separated in this way? I don't go to the bathroom with my family, being personal with the person pissing next to you isn't the purpose of a bathroom.

We aren't talking about men and women walking around. Men and women have to expose their genitalia in order to use the bathroom. That is how you can determine someone's sex on sight. You haven't given any method to determine a person's gender on sight, you just say that Female gendered people have the state of a female which is being feminine and you can tell they are the state of a female by their face and body structure.

This is because you didn't take health class in middle school and learned that the anatomy of males and females isn't determined by face and body structure, but rather by their penis or their vagina.

 

Because the public demands it. The reason for the demand is explained in my previous post.

What? You determine their sex on sight by peeking at their genitalia? Is there someone waiting in front of a bathroom door who checks to see if you have a penis or vagina? This logically doesn't make sense.

I suggest you look up the definition of "on sight". Humans generally wear clothing when going to use a public bathroom. You cannot determine with complete certainty whether that person is a male or female "on sight", this is why we use analyze others using masculinity and femininity as a guideline to come to a conclusion on gender.

 

Does the public demand they have restrooms for people with different personalities or does the public demand they have restrooms for people with different genitalia?

Again, you haven't provided any reason as for why bathrooms aren't separated by penises and vaginas, you have just invented a new thing called gender and assert over and over again that the reason there are two bathrooms is because of gender, even though the ONLY proof you cited shows differences in bathrooms are strictly based on genitalia (urinals & female waste bins).

The answer to "Why would the public demand two bathrooms to be separated by gender and not genitalia" is not "Because the public demands it"

That is a circular answer, you surely realize. Bathrooms aren't for people with the same personalities, they are for people with the same genitalia.

Yes. That is EXACTLY how you determine sex. Making this into a rhetorical is not a rebuttal, you are just restating the fact that yeah, you can sex an organism by identifying its genitalia.

Again, you missed too many health classes. You can determine a female organism from its female genitalia, and a male organism from its male genitalia. Do you disagree or are you just going to restate that fact again for us?

People piss and shit on their clothing when using the restroom? You seem to be ignoring the fact that I already pointed out that people have to expose their genitals to use the bathroom. Putting "on sight" in quotes is not a rebuttal to the fact that people must expose their genitals to being seen in order to use the bathroom.

 

Do you want the origin of how sex-segregated bathrooms came about and the reason for it's demand?

It wasn't because, "You have penis, you go here. You have vagina, you go here.". There was a lack of women's bathrooms available, thus it's mass creation. This ties into the many things segregated by sex.

Dorms
Schools
Churches
Clothing
Workplace

Is it because 1 person has a penis and the other has a vagina? No.

On sight: as soon as someone or something has been seen.

When someone is seen going to the bathroom, are they fully clothed, or naked? Would you be able to see their genitalia on sight? You arguing otherwise doesn't help your position.

Can I please have your definition of "on sight"?

Your question should've been: "What is a sure way to tell someone is a male and a female?"

Even at that, it wouldn't help your position because no one is checking to see if you have a penis or a vagina when going to use a bathroom. This isn't a hypothetical situation, this is literally what this discussion is about.

Yes, you have to expose your genitalia, but not for everyone to see. You aren't forced to use a urinal, it's optional. You can use a toilet which is enclosed from others.

 

So now you concede that bathrooms are sex-segregated, not gender segregated. RIP your argument.

And you conceded that it would be impossible to distinguish between female and male gender people. RIP your objective definition of gender.

Naked. You can't shit or piss with clothing covering your orifices. Again, restating this fake as a rhetorical question does not make it untrue. You is just restating the fact that yeah, your genitals can be seen when using the bathroom as a rhetorical question and calling it a rebuttal..

So if I walk into a female restroom, lift the seat on the toilet, face it standing up, and give a good 60 second stream, would it be possible to know I had a penis?

There wouldn't be a reason to have be two bathrooms separated by personality type then if both have enclosed toilets.

 

I said the symbols on the bathroom doors represent gender.

You can distinguish a male from a female based off masculine and feminine traits. It's not entirely possible to determine which gender is which with complete certainty "on sight", as you claim.

Give me my definition of gender.

Naked = without clothes

Can I get your definition of naked?

Again, you're saying you would be able to tell which gender is which "on sight" by their looking at their genitalia. Who is checking for this when using the bathroom? Can you stop skipping over this?

You can't pee sitting down?

Why would bathrooms be separated by personality? That makes no sense.

 

You're throwing common sense out the window and using such broken logic. I've never once seen the genitals of another human being in a public bathroom. We're not observing their private areas while they're using the bathroom. People expect privacy without weirdo's checking out their junk.

They're not taking off all of their clothes, they're exposing a section or using a stall to remove their pants. In both circumstances, no one should be checking their private parts.

"Men and women have to expose their genitalia in order to use the bathroom. That is how you can determine someone's sex on sight."

What? Those don't logically corresponding with each other. Obviously you can determine someone's sex on sight, if they expose their genitalia; but only under the condition that you are observing them while using the restroom. That condition should NEVER be a possibility nor should it be a way to determining their sex.

Figure out a realistic method, rather than a delusional option.

 

My claim is that Male restrooms are for male organisms, and Female restrooms are for female organisms. I support this claim with the fact that restrooms have sex-specific differences between them, such as urinals and female waste bins. The reason there are two restrooms is because genitalia are used for both sexual and waste functions, and people value the privacy of their sexual parts and do not want to be exposed to sexual content of the opposite sex or be exposed as sexual content to the opposite sex each time they use the bathroom.

Your claim is that someone can have a male sex and female gender and use the Female bathroom because female means female gender, which is a blend of personality traits as you defined here:

Gender: A blend of your biological sex, your internal sense of self, how dependent you are, how emotional you are, how passive you are, how sensitive you are, how quiet you are, how graceful you are, how innocent you are, how strong you are, how flirtatious you are, how nurturing you are, how self critical you are, how soft you are, how sexually dominant you are, how accepting you are, how clumsy you are, how experienced you are, and how rebellious you are.


I have a strong argument as to why bathrooms are separated by sex, but you have no argument as to why bathrooms would be separated by their gender personality traits. You conceded that there is no way to tell someone's gender, which is why you aren't able to answer the question: Why are there two bathrooms separated by gender if there is no way to tell someone's gender?

So you are conceding that your genitals are naked since they are without clothes when you shit or piss.

My claim is that Male restrooms are for male organisms, and Female restrooms are for female organisms. I support this claim with the fact that restrooms have sex-specific differences between them, such as urinals and female waste bins. The reason there are two restrooms is because genitalia are used for both sexual and waste functions, and people value the privacy of their sexual parts and do not want to be exposed to sexual content of the opposite sex or be exposed as sexual content to the opposite sex each time they use the bathroom.

Yes, it does make no sense. Thank you for conceding your previous claim that bathrooms were separated by personality because they are personal settings:

 

Male organisms? So male dogs can use a public bathroom?

Anywho, I wasn't justifying that because a male identifies as a female, they should be allowed to use a bathroom suited towards females. There are gender bathroom rules specific to different bathrooms in different locations. Some offer that privilege and others don't, using the term gender has more fluidity.

This was my definition.

I said the symbols on the bathroom doors reference gender, do you not understand that? Why? Because it has more fluidity.

Take target for example. This is there bathroom policy:

Source

I asked:

"When someone is seen going to the bathroom, are they fully clothed, or naked?"

You responded with:

"Naked. You can't shit or piss with clothing covering your orifices. Again, restating this fake as a rhetorical question does not make it untrue. You is just restating the fact that yeah, your genitals can be seen when using the bathroom as a rhetorical question and calling it a rebuttal.."

Naked means without clothes. This means no shirt, socks, pants, underwear, shoes, no clothing on your body.

Pretty sure people walk into the bathroom with clothes on.

Still doesn't answer your "on sight" remark.

Who said it was separated by personality? Stop with the strawman.

Also, why are you ignoring Ritysayo's post?

 

Bathrooms are used for people to dispose of their biological waste, and people have different distinctions on how to appropriately separate themselves in a civilized matter. The reason this debate is such a huge issue in the United States is that there has been a drastic increase in people revealing themselves as transgender. Social media is contributing to their campaign that they don't feel comfortable using the bathroom assigned to them by previous standards. This has influenced the government to make laws to distinguish their proper placement and make comprises to our advancing civilization.

I've not heard or read a single solution in the media that satisfies both sides. Everyone has their perspective, and can back their decision with rational ideas. There should be a method that meets each party comfortably. Sadly, I doubt that is going to happen because state and federal laws are already being placed.

We have bright people in the Sythe community, rather than debating the facts backing each party; how about we attempt brainstorming solutions and receive feedback from other members?

 

I think it comes down to transgender people feeling uncomfortable using a washroom that doesn't depict their gender. Fair enough. But i'm sure FAR MORE non-transgender people would feel uncomfortable knowing they are taking a dump with someone of the opposite sex in the washroom. I know I would. And just think of all the people that will take advantage of this. Who is to tell some man that he isn't transgender and can't use the girls washroom, when in reality he is just a pervert abusing his new rights to claim transgender?

To whoever is arguing that the washroom symbols are for gender... you honestly think that when these symbols were designed that they intended on transgender use? I'm pretty sure they've been using the same symbols/signs way back when transgender was extremely taboo. I'm sure back then it was a lot more common to interchange sex for gender.

I have nothing against transgender people. However I think a much more appropriate solution so no one feels uncomfortable when using the washroom is to just have single washrooms that are for both sex in addition to the traditional bigger sex washrooms.

 

Who said the symbols depicted use for transgenders?

 

Who gives a fuck about bathrooms. Childish to argue about bathrooms. If a person is creepy in the bathroom no matter their gender that's unacceptable, but generally it's very private in restrooms and with that in mind idk why anyone really cares who is in there unless it's a creepy person. And if you have a problem with someone in the restroom then you can wait for them to leave.

This thread is about Transgenders, not bathroom privileges, which transgenders have a small piece of, but changing this thread to be about bathroom privileges lol.

My thing with Transgenders and gays is if they are like any other person except their gender/attraction then I'm totally fine with it. But when they gotta act out for attention and put it in your face that they are gay and trans and you have to accept them then it irks me pretty bad. Pink hair and tutus and dumb fake voices and disrespectful attitudes to get attention is quite annoying.

 

IMO it doesn't even have to be something crazy. They might just have a deep desire to be the other gender. Which, w/e. I have 3 kids, and the thought of some dude with this wiener cut off that tries to be as pretty as possible peeing next to my daughter doesn't bother me as much as the butch lesbian with assault charges. Just an example, but just saying why tf does anyone care other than wanting to be part of a worldwide scandal?

 

Yes you did, read your quote.

"Because it has more fluidity" is not an argument.

Yes. You genitals are naked when pissing and shitting.

You did, read your quote.

He can feel free to post an argument just like you are free to post an argument any time you want to prove that bathrooms are separated by gender. Ritasyo repeated my true, valid argument as a rhetorical just like you did, which is not an argument or a rebuttal.

==================

You have yet to answer why there would be two bathrooms if there was no way to tell genders apart. Anyway, you already conceded all of your original arguments that bathrooms are separated by gender, flaming me the entire time and taking 2 pages to define the term "Gender" on which your argument relies, only after me proving multiple times that your entire assertion relied on circular reasoning.

It's no wonder you guys have 40% suicide attempt rates. You are not connected with reality if you believe that bathrooms are separated by who is most sexually dominant or who is clumsy.

 

Just to end this debate.

Male:


Male:


Female:


Female:


Labeled as what they were born as.

Tell me which one you'd question in the bathroom.