Should luring be against the rules?

[SuF]

The thing is, the individuals who are being lured do not expect to be lured. I doubt I would ever get scammed or lured, but does that discount what happens to other people? You can get scammed in various ways that include game mechanisms.

Luring is just killing someone who did not expect to be killed. It is reasonable for someone to assume that if you are in danger of being killed you should not be surprised if you are killed. Stealing is not a game mechanic like being killed is. Stealing in game is abusing a game mechanic for your own gain. Luring is abusing trust or using tricks in order to use a game mechanic for your gain and abusing trust is a tactic. I abuse the trust of people on RTSs all the time. There is nothing wrong with that. In order for anyone to say that it is wrong in this case has a very heavy burden that no one has even come close to meeting. You can to show why abusing trust in this particular case is different than any other case. And you can not just say it is scamming because as I've shown, it isn't. It does not follow the same model and is not comparable.

 

[Phi]

The thing is, the individuals who are being lured do not expect to be lured. I doubt I would ever get scammed or lured, but does that discount what happens to other people? You can get scammed in various ways that include game mechanisms.

I wonder if you'd support banning a user on sythe for asking to form a PK group, and then killing the participants

 

I wonder if you'd support banning a user on sythe for asking to form a PK group, and then killing the participants

I think that would be bannable:

Please do NOT partner with another Sythe member and lure him as the intended target. We see this as undermining your trust, and we consider it scamming.

Also, I'll reply to everyone later.

 

[Membership]

Luring is just killing someone who did not expect to be killed.

This.

You are not scamming someone by luring, you are not forcing someone to do anything, you are not exploiting any game bugs or glitches or whatever to make the other person's runescape character do anything that isn't under the gamer's control at all times. If I managed to convince you to drop 50$ on the floor and then I picked it up I don't think a judge would find me guilty of robbing. After you drop the bill on the floor it belongs to whoever catches it.

I don't see how luring is any more unfair than say that period in runescape when it was possible to just keep using "transfer spec" in single combat, thus making someone infinitively spec with claws or korasi, and the victim would have a very low chance of getting away alive. Now THAT is unfair because you were just minding your own business when you get attacked out of nowhere with very slim chances of escaping, unlike luring where you knowingly talk to the lurer and buy all the crap he says.

For fuck sakes this is Sythe, a black market, and now you don't even want people to lure or talk about luring anymore, as if it is a crime or something. I have seen very very few lures that you wouldn't have to be a complete dumbass to fall for, so for the most part I say it is the victim's fault

 

[Phi]

I think that would be bannable:



Also, I'll reply to everyone later.

Validating the argument with the argument. We're debating the validity of that very quote, and it should be removed because luring shouldn't be bannable

 

Validating the argument with the argument. We're debating the validity of that very quote, and it should be removed because luring shouldn't be bannable

No we're not. Luring Sythe members was already against the rules. The title of this post is "should luring be against the rules," suggesting luring towards other players in general, which is what we're discussing.

 

[Phi]

No we're not. Luring Sythe members was already against the rules. The title of this post is "should luring be against the rules," suggesting luring towards other players in general, which is what we're discussing.

ok, that's correct, then back to luring players in general

 

Luring is just killing someone who did not expect to be killed

I don't mean to rain on your parade again, but your definition of luring makes no sense as many lures don't involve combat.

Also, if anyone did not read my post on the bottom of page 7, you should.

 

[Xier0]

when you play poker, you know that you're gambling and have a chance to loose. It's not the same as lying to people and backstabbing their trust in order to scam them.

In order for a lure to work, the victim has to have incentive. For example "Telegrab that from behind the tree!" or "Drop your items and do the doubling glitch!" etc, etc, etc.

The victim KNOWINGLY does something in the hopes of a high payout.

 

[S]

The thing is, the individuals who are being lured do not expect to be lured. I doubt I would ever get scammed or lured, but does that discount what happens to other people? You can get scammed in various ways that include game mechanisms.

That's the whole point of luring though? Using the unexpected, glitches and unknown elements upon those unaware. It is part of the game.

If I go to the Duel Arena right now, and state I'm wanting to stake say 1B, no food, no prayers etc etc, a normal boxing match; I then use a staking glitch to turn food or whatever on. I've technically lured someone in under false-pretence, to win the duel. Why should that warrant a ban?

In order for a lure to work, the victim has to have incentive. For example "Telegrab that from behind the tree!" or "Drop your items and do the doubling glitch!" etc, etc, etc.

The victim KNOWINGLY does something in the hopes of a high payout.

This is also true in most scenarios.

 

[Membership]

I don't mean to rain on your parade again, but your definition of luring makes no sense as many lures don't involve combat.

Also, if anyone did not read my post on the bottom of page 7, you should.

I don't know if you really want to discuss the issue or wander around just correcting others, because most of your posts I see are needless corrections where most people with half a brain would understand the point of the one who stands corrected, and I'm pretty sure you understand it too since you don't seem to be stupid, so just stop trying to look superior or funny or whatever the fk the reason for you doing those stupid corrections is.

Killing someone who isn't expecting to be killed = Convincing someone to drop items that they don't expect to be taken by others = 99% of other lures

 

[Shin]

No we're not. Luring Sythe members was already against the rules. The title of this post is "should luring be against the rules," suggesting luring towards other players in general, which is what we're discussing.

This thread was meant for luring members of Sythe.

It was a mistake, but given the feedback we have an on-going discussion in the SL regarding luring members of Sythe.

 

[Phi]

I've lost track of the purpose on this thread in the middle of my arguing against banning all luring.

If the purpose is to make it bannable to intentionally lure a sythe user, then that's already how it is, but the issue is trying to prove the lure was intentionally targeted after a sythe user. And here is where we hit a snag every time, which results in these threads being closed without changing how we already operate.

 

[Membership]

This thread was meant for luring members of Sythe.

It was a mistake, but given the feedback we have an on-going discussion in the SL regarding luring members of Sythe.

I didn't understand it that way, I also thought we were talking about luring in general as an activity, not particularly luring Sythe members. I'm against luring the Sythe members as anyone who enjoys the community should be, since community members are not meant to harm eachother!

EDIT: just because two things have similar mechanics (social engeneering and luring) it doesn't mean they are the same, most of the people who are opposed to luring are breaking it down to the core so they can say that the base mechanincs are the same therefore luring=social engeneering=scaming. THIS IS WRONG. Runescape is a video game and real life is real life, please try to separate the two. The same offence commited in runescape and in real life have different punishments, why? RL /= RS

 

[funbox]

In order for a lure to work, the victim has to have incentive. For example "Telegrab that from behind the tree!" or "Drop your items and do the doubling glitch!" etc, etc, etc.

The victim KNOWINGLY does something in the hopes of a high payout.

BUT the victim doesn't know that there's a FACTOR OF RISK or what WILL happen.

In poker, you're GAMBLING. aka A GAME OF CHANCE.
In poker, you KNOW that there's a risk and you're Taking it.

You should know that way more than me since you used to host.

 

[SuF]

That's the whole point of luring though? Using the unexpected, glitches and unknown elements upon those unaware. It is part of the game.

If I go to the Duel Arena right now, and state I'm wanting to stake say 1B, no food, no prayers etc etc, a normal boxing match; I then use a staking glitch to turn food or whatever on. I've technically lured someone in under false-pretence, to win the duel. Why should that warrant a ban?

I see that as bug abuse and not luring.

 

[SuF]

I don't mean to rain on your parade again, but your definition of luring makes no sense as many lures don't involve combat.

Also, if anyone did not read my post on the bottom of page 7, you should.

Wtf kind of "lure" does not involve combat?

 

[funbox]

Wtf kind of "lure" does not involve combat?

most lures nowaday involve around dropping items and being unable to pick them up again in the specific area.

 

[Chris]

most lures nowaday involve around dropping items and being unable to pick them up again in the specific area.

This is very true, what usually happens is someone will drop their items in hopes they can antilure the lurer, where in reality, they are actually getting anti antilured.

 

[SuF]

This is very true, what usually happens is someone will drop their items in hopes they can antilure the lurer, where in reality, they are actually getting anti antilured.

i'm beyond fucking confused at this point.