Forced Repayment for DNT Users

[Grave]

There's 10 people willing to take their spot i'm sure.

Find 10 people per person we've unbanned so far, and I'll support you.

If you think being banned and then suddenly unbanned but getting to keep all the money you ran off with is a punishment then you legitimately have no clue what you're talking about.

I've been scammed before. If my memory serves me right, @Alma Mater scammed RSUltimate $6,000+

I didn't even notice until now that I added him to the list. Someone said he did "something stupid," and I added him to the list. I believe he was banned for another reason, as I don't remember reporting him. I spoke with him a long time ago. He explained why he did it, apologized, and he also explained why he can't pay it back. He's been banned for a few years. I think that's enough of a punishment.

I'm not going to hold a grudge against someone. Being banned for a while and not being able to ever trade again is fair enough to me. The community is more important.

 

Forced repayment im not sure about, incentivised repayment most definitely.

It's hard to see really without trialling it what forced repayment would bring about, if they dont agree then what happens then? They're in the same position they was originally - and the position they obviously didnt mind being in otherwise they would of repaid and attempted pardon already.

However if incentives were given, e.g. more and more forum access dependant on % of amount repaid may work.

E.g. 100% remains unpaid, spam forum.

30% repaid / 70% remaining to be paid - more community area access

75% paid / 25% unpaid: PM access

full repayment whole site access however can't post in market sections until sucessful pardon has been submitted (after full repayment and time working off the repayment more likely to be granted possible)

 

I didnt read most the comments. (i read them now)

@Yousuckv2 I've think you've missed this point. And I so did I, and I still don't fully understand it, so I don't blame you.

Apparently DNT is meant to be protection for the community. Bans are punishments, and pardon system is restitution.

So.. putting restrictions on DNT is not likely going to happen, but I told @Sythe that if you want to protect us, you have to ensure there is punishment such as bans when DNT eff up. So DNT itself is not meant to be a punishment. or something.......?I don't really understand it, to us it seems it's a punishment on DNT, and to DNT i'm sure it seems a punishment too. Anyways..

In light of your suggestion... I agree. Some sort of strict form of programme for DNT is very necessary, I've said this multiple times. I agree the DNT should repay an amount based on what their victim is happy to accept, in respect of how much a DNT can repay per month or so. If you want to protect the market, which is what DNT is meant to be, then a system like this is very neccessary, so in short I support a victim/scammer repayment schedule. (Also thanks for the list of who is/was a scammer or need's to repay, too long to read through the other thread.)


Oh I do love this draft save system, my phone died and so did the post, but came on pc and its saved ^.^

 

[Sephiroth]

If you think being banned and then suddenly unbanned but getting to keep all the money you ran off with is a punishment then you legitimately have no clue what you're talking about. As has been stated time and again most of these users don't two shits about the market and DNT gives them everything they wanted without having to pay a cent back. And yeah, if they don't pay they can be rebanned as i'm sure plenty of people would be gracious for an opportunity that's being taken for granted by some selfish cunt who doesn't want to pay for the mistakes he's made. The point of unbanning them is to see if they're worth allowing back into the community in a full capacity and if someone doesn't want to start paying back the person/people they stole from what exactly makes them deserving of being here at all? There's 10 people willing to take their spot i'm sure. DNT simply isn't a punishment for the vast majority of the current DNT users and most of them aren't even trying to pay back a cent, if you think otherwise i'm not sure where you're getting your facts from.

I was reading through this thread and reading all the feedback and I have to say I partially support the idea.

@Yousuckv2 what if DNT's who owed were required to make a good faith paymet towards their balance before they are granted DNT? Could be flat rate or percentage based etc. What do you think of somethin like that? OF course you would wanna make sure that the DNT follows up by getting it paid off, but i wouldnt suggest forcing a payment plan.

 

[Lean]

Never seen anyone actually repay a cent from banning people on RSPS as a staff member and again I didn't do it for my own personal benefit. Also $13,000 are you retarded? I didn't even ban that much total in value my entire time on their staff team so you're genuinely making bullshit up. Given the fact that I specifically remember your dumb ass advertising your website ingame on accounts that had the same IP as the accounts you kept your stash on like a fucking moron I can also almost guarantee I didn't need Sythe to ban you. Surprise surprise one of your biggest sellers George/So Baws was also a rat who told staff to ban your accounts after you paid him for GP he sold you. We didn't need Sythe to ban you and you're grossly overestimating anything you lost as a result of bans - which by the way were not all done by myself in the first place. Your argument has no legs to stand on just as none of yours often do because all you do is continually spout bullshit like the dumb fuck you are.
Here's you previously claiming it was $3,500
YouSuckV2 Owes me $3,500 USD
Where did the extra $9,500 come from reject? I know you owe the government $90,000 despite scamming Honest Iago $2,000 but you aren't getting shit from me.
Forcing money before being unbanned is what's required of the pardon system which is what most of the people who thought this DNT thing was a good were complaining about in the first place. If they had to pay some amount back before being unbanned I still see no reason why they can't be required to pay back x amount every month or set period after being unbanned.

I think your admission here is enough for a perm ban according to the rules.

 

[Grave]

As for the 10 users for everyone we've unbanned, i'm sure there's that many in the list that I just checked ban reasons for yesterday and i'm sure there's plenty more in the thousands of other banned users unless you'd like to argue they'd prefer to just stay banned forever?

Let's say there's 10,000 total market banned users by the time we're done. Without your suggestion, they get to stay. Let's assume half don't pay. That's 5,000 people. Again, this is just an example, not exact numbers. So you're saying you'd find 50,000 people. I assume you would replace them with new active users. Anyway, if you want to replace them with more market banned users, we now need 50,000. If half don't pay, that's 25,000. Then you'll have to find another 10 per person. That's 250,000 people.

You get the point. Don't exaggerate.

 

[Yousuckv2]

I think your admission here is enough for a perm ban according to the rules.

I think you need to learn to read then because I clearly stated I never needed to use Sythe to ban you and don't owe you shit, I already pardoned for being private server staff and banning people from here which is what I admitted to. Odd how you also supported my pardon and made no mention of me owing you jack shit then? YousuckV2 Requesting A Pardon For Private Server Staff in 2012/Ban Evasion
You're just trying to get every dime you can and it's fucking hilarious, guessing child support is pretty hard on you lmfao. Low life scumbag.

Let's say there's 10,000 total market banned users by the time we're done. Without your suggestion, they get to stay. Let's assume half don't pay. That's 5,000 people. Again, this is just an example, not exact numbers. So you're saying you'd find 50,000 people. I assume you would replace them with new active users. Anyway, if you want to replace them with more market banned users, we now need 50,000. If half don't pay, that's 25,000. Then you'll have to find another 10 per person. That's 250,000 people.

You get the point. Don't exaggerate.

I'm the one exaggerating but you're using 10,000 people as an example when we both know the numbers will never even come close. In all likelihood the amount will be low enough that yeah, there probably would be 10 users for each person who would be willing to take their spot. Even if there isn't 10, are you saying that there wouldn't be any banned users left who would like a shot at being DNT in place of someone who has no desire to pay anything back? Or are you saying people with no desire to pay anything back deserve to be DNT over someone who actually has the intention of righting their wrongs?

 

[iJava]

Let's say there's 10,000 total market banned users by the time we're done. Without your suggestion, they get to stay. Let's assume half don't pay. That's 5,000 people. Again, this is just an example, not exact numbers. So you're saying you'd find 50,000 people. I assume you would replace them with new active users. Anyway, if you want to replace them with more market banned users, we now need 50,000. If half don't pay, that's 25,000. Then you'll have to find another 10 per person. That's 250,000 people.

You get the point. Don't exaggerate.

$100 says that maybe 1% of the DNT users will repay meanwhile the others will find a way to benefit the most they can out of this situation.

It's funny how the majority disagreeing with this are DNT users themselves who don't want to have to pay back what they took.

 

[Pain]

The reasoning in this thread is seriously becoming retarded, even by my standards.

Your acting like theres going to be a banned waiting list for DnT, are you smoking crack?

Clearly sythe is letting in every user we can name that he judges acceptable, u act like he's going to stop letting people become DnT, this is flawed logic.

Even if there isn't 10, are you saying that there wouldn't be any banned users left who would like a shot at being DNT in place of someone who has no desire to pay anything back?

If those users want to pay back their victims, they'd already be DnT whether another user wants to pay their victim back or not... I'm not seeing the logic.

I mean user 1 wants to repay his victim 10m 07, user 1 is already DnT as sythe is letting everyone back practically.

User 2 doesn't want to repay his victim 10m 07, user 2 is DnT.

Their both still DnT lol, user 1 doesn't have to fill user 2's space, all forcing user 2 onto a payment plan does is remove all of user 2's potential community activity, then we're stuck a scam victim who didn't get anything back anyway, and we're short more community activity, so instead of gaining community activity, we didn't gain anything and neither did the scam victim, so what the fuck is the point of making user 2 pay back his scam on a set schedule? If people want to pay back their scams then great, if they don't leave them on DnT and stop fucking messing with them, because otherwise its a lose-lose for sythe and victim, at least if their on DnT its a win for sythes community but a lose for the victim.

I mean mabey I'm just tired but some of this logic ur spewing is flat out retarded.

 

[Yousuckv2]

The reasoning in this thread is seriously becoming retarded, even by my standards.

Your acting like theres going to be a banned waiting list for DnT, are you smoking crack?

Clearly sythe is letting in every user we can name that he judges acceptable, u act like he's going to stop letting people become DnT, this is flawed logic.

Even if there isn't 10, are you saying that there wouldn't be any banned users left who would like a shot at being DNT in place of someone who has no desire to pay anything back?

If those users want to pay back their victims, they'd already be DnT whether another user wants to pay their victim back or not... I'm not seeing the logic.

I mean user 1 wants to repay his victim 10m 07, user 1 is already DnT as sythe is letting everyone back practically.

User 2 doesn't want to repay his victim 10m 07, user 2 is DnT.

Their both still DnT lol, user 1 doesn't have to fill user 2's space, all forcing user 2 onto a payment plan does is remove all of user 2's potential community activity, then we're stuck a scam victim who didn't get anything back anyway, and we're short more community activity.

I mean mabey I'm just tired but some of this logic ur spewing is flat out retarded.

So you think as the list gets bigger and bigger Richard is going to pay as much attention to this idea as he has in the beginning stages? Once most notable people are unbanned you think he's going to give 2 shits about the average scammer? I highly doubt it. Even if he does and mass scammers start getting unbanned, it means we have a fuck ton of scammers on the website not being required to repay shit and that's a huge problem itself which would also require something forcing them to pay shit back.

 

[Pain]

So you think as the list gets bigger and bigger Richard is going to pay as much attention to this idea as he has in the beginning stages? Once most notable people are unbanned you think he's going to give 2 shits about the average scammer? I highly doubt it. Even if he does and mass scammers start getting unbanned, it means we have a fuck ton of scammers on the website not being required to repay shit and that's a huge problem itself which would also require something forcing them to pay shit back.


Mass scammers creating more activity> Nobody and no activity, sorry to all the victims out there, but its the truth, I'm not saying this from a personal standpoint, I'm saying it from what I think is best for the site itself.

Also, Am I a mind reader? I don't speak for what sythe does or what he's going to do, you don't have the right to assume he's just going to become inactive on DnT.

Mabey if the community started supporting DnT more, DnT members would be more active and it'd be more worthwhile to sythe to keep spending time on it.

 

The reasoning in this thread is seriously becoming retarded, even by my standards.

Your acting like theres going to be a banned waiting list for DnT, are you smoking crack?

Clearly sythe is letting in every user we can name that he judges acceptable, u act like he's going to stop letting people become DnT, this is flawed logic.

You really should capitalise that N; the Not in the DNT is very important.

Anyways from what I've gathered, the waiting list for some people who could be DNT users will be the pardon system? or is that the opposite way. Or are we just letting every person who is a scammer in ?

 

[Yousuckv2]

So you think as the list gets bigger and bigger Richard is going to pay as much attention to this idea as he has in the beginning stages? Once most notable people are unbanned you think he's going to give 2 shits about the average scammer? I highly doubt it. Even if he does and mass scammers start getting unbanned, it means we have a fuck ton of scammers on the website not being required to repay shit and that's a huge problem itself which would also require something forcing them to pay shit back.


Mass scammers creating more activity> Nobody and no activity, sorry to all the victims out there, but its the truth, I'm not saying this from a personal standpoint, I'm saying it from what I think is best for the site itself.

Also, Am I a mind reader? I don't speak for what sythe does or what he's going to do, you don't have the right to assume he's just going to become inactive on DnT.

Mabey if the community started supporting DnT more, DnT members would be more active and it'd be more worthwhile to sythe to keep spending time on it.

In what world does having a website full of scammers qualify as an improvement over having a slightly less active community that is scum free? I'm pretty sure that's as far from the truth as possible and most people would prefer not to be part of a community full of scammers and overall human garbage.

You also can't ask the community to support DNT more when a lot of them including the staff think it's a terrible idea lmfao, you're pretty much stating that the solution is for people to stop disagreeing and become blind followers.

 

[Pain]

You really should capitalise that N; the Not in the DNT is very important.

Anyways from what I've gathered, the waiting list for some people who could be DNT users will be the pardon system? or is that the opposite way. Or are we just letting every person who is a scammer in ?

From what I've established anything that doesn't send u to prison in real life basically is acceptable, cases that are extreme are considered on a case by case basis, all cases are considered by sythe at least somewhat though.


Also please.. please... don't mention that pardon system, I'm praying to god sythe turns to it next and throws that pile of dogshit in the trash and we can rebuild it as a community or he can personally.

I've heard of nobody having to pardon to get onto DNT, DNT is the first step, then u pardon to get off DNT.

 

From what I've established anything that doesn't send u to prison in real life basically is acceptable, cases that are extreme are considered on a case by case basis, all cases are considered by sythe at least somewhat though.


Also please.. please... don't mention that pardon system, I'm praying to god sythe turns to it next and throws that pile of dogshit in the trash and we can rebuild it as a community or he can personally.

I've heard of nobody having to pardon to get onto DNT, DNT is the first step, then u pardon to get off DNT.

No I meant the updated version of the pardon system; as restitution for some specific people coming back as DNT. I didn't fully realise all scammers were being accepted open arms right now.

 

[Yousuckv2]

No I meant the updated version of the pardon system; as restitution for some specific people coming back as DNT. I didn't fully realise all scammers were being accepted open arms right now.

From what i've heard a new system is being worked on but they're not telling anyone anything so yeah. Hopefully when it's all up and running they decide to differentiate petty bullshit bans from actual scammers/scum instead of just unbanning everyone.

 

[Pain]

Anyone and everyone is being accepted and being reviewed by sythe currently, if he judges them a safe unban, he issues the DnT rank based on a variety of factors he decides, so to answer ur question the worst scammer in sythes history is eligble to return tomorrow if he wanted to if sythe deemed him safe, obviously in certain cases sythe has denied unbans and DnT requests though, so he is keeping us safe.

Nobody returns without sythe seeing it and doing it, and if he feels its reasonable, I'm sure as hell not going to argue with the guy who took me to school on the area of logic and reasoning, no matter who he unbans.

 

[Lean]

Anyone and everyone is being accepted and being reviewed by sythe currently, if he judges them a safe unban, he issues the DnT rank based on a variety of factors he decides, so to answer ur question the worst scammer in sythes history is eligble to return tomorrow if he wanted to if sythe deemed him safe, obviously in certain cases sythe has denied unbans and DnT requests though, so he is keeping us safe.

Nobody returns without sythe seeing it and doing it, and if he feels its reasonable, I'm sure as hell not going to argue with the guy who took me to school on the area of logic and reasoning, no matter who he unbans.

I don't think he accepts everyone. Only people he thinks would be more good to the site unbanned than banned. In regards to scammers I believe it's only the people he thinks would actually pay back what they owe. Who knows though I could be wrong.

 

Anyone and everyone is being accepted and being reviewed by sythe currently, if he judges them a safe unban, he issues the DnT rank based on a variety of factors he decides, so to answer ur question the worst scammer in sythes history is eligble to return tomorrow if he wanted to if sythe deemed him safe, obviously in certain cases sythe has denied unbans and DnT requests though, so he is keeping us safe.

Nobody returns without sythe seeing it and doing it, and if he feels its reasonable, I'm sure as hell not going to argue with the guy who took me to school on the area of logic and reasoning, no matter who he unbans.

To a lot of the current community, any scammer back into the community is not really protection of the community, just with a DNT. Considering you vaded yours in the first two days, and you got lucky to not get rebanned.

We're not actually protected; we just have to live with it and accept it. So some sort of strict programme is a fair ask.

 

[Pain]

I don't think he accepts everyone. Only people he thinks would be more good to the site unbanned than banned. In regards to scammers I believe it's only the people he thinks would actually pay back what they owe. Who knows though I could be wrong.

The rest of what I wrote explains he's not accepting people he doesn't deem safe

@Sonia I agree a new secure system should eventually be finalized, but that's up to sythe to do and finalize, so for now we're in the inbetween period where theres no set requirements or anything, I'm sure sythe is working on finalizing some sort of system that has adamant requirements etc for DNT.

He just wants to see how the experiment goes before doing so I'd guess? as I said I can only speculate to what he does, as I'm not him.