2017-2018 NBA Discussion Thread

[Amazer]

And even with a big injury, they still have insane offensive potential. It will be hard to beat them either way, I can see a healthy Spurs team with Kawhi and Kyrie maaaybe taking a series in 7 though.

Kyrie Irving willing to sign extension with Spurs if traded, report says

I think thats all fake news TBH. Spurs have no assets that the Cavs would want so that scenario is out. Only trade I see actually happening is one between the Suns and Cavs or Suns, Knicks, Cavs three-way

 

Kyrie traded to the Celtics lol.

 

[Amazer]

Kyrie traded to the Celtics lol.

FLEECE

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

Kyrie traded to the Celtics lol.

Good trade for both teams. I'll say the Cavs won it though getting the pick out of them too.

Thomas contract almost up so he might not be in Cleveland long, Lebron either. So Celtics are thinking about the future, not the next season necessarily.

Both fanbases are 'upset' aka it was a fair trade.

 

[JayiARTS]

Kyrie in a Celtics uniform, lol. This is crazy, it'd be funny to see Kyrie vs Lebron in the Eastern Conf finals this year.

 

[veichleproblem]

Lebron doesn't have much time left, cavs need to dump that pick too and reload asap because this team is done

 

[King]

As a die hard C's fan I'm not sure how I feel about this. We have enough picks to give up, but I really don't know how well Kyrie is going to mesh with everyone. To be honest Cavs won this trade, and I'll tell you why. First off Isaiah Thomas is coming off a career year, and you could even argue that he's better than Kyrie Irving right now as the only advantage Kyrie has is handles, and height (Isaiah Thomas is either leveled, or better in every other aspect don't @ me). The Celtics just had a pretty good season, and this might mess up with their chemistry, but we'll see how it plays out. A lot of changes for a team just came off the 1 seed, but I know it's a business at the end of the day, and they're trying to look out for their future. Honestly I think it could possibly fit well together though since Kyrie is a scoring point guard, and Gordan Hayward, and Al Horford are versatile players. Interesting changes this season, will be definitely fun to watch, although we all know the Warriors are probably going to end up repeating.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

As a die hard C's fan I'm not sure how I feel about this. We have enough picks to give up, but I really don't know how well Kyrie is going to mesh with everyone. To be honest Cavs won this trade, and I'll tell you why. First off Isaiah Thomas is coming off a career year, and you could even argue that he's better than Kyrie Irving right now as the only advantage Kyrie has is handles, and height (Isaiah Thomas is either leveled, or better in every other aspect don't @ me). The Celtics just had a pretty good season, and this might mess up with their chemistry, but we'll see how it plays out. A lot of changes for a team just came off the 1 seed, but I know it's a business at the end of the day, and they're trying to look out for their future. Honestly I think it could possibly fit well together though since Kyrie is a scoring point guard, and Gordan Hayward, and Al Horford are versatile players. Interesting changes this season, will be definitely fun to watch, although we all know the Warriors are probably going to end up repeating.

Kyrie is better than Thomas. He's much younger too. Thomas is going to fall off a cliff as he ages because of his height. Once he loses his speed it is game over. Thomas was going to be gone next summer regardless unless you want to pay an aging player max cash which the Celtics probably do not want to do, and the Cavs probably won't retain him either. Anthony Davis is where the money should be spent, not IT.

The Celtics also noted grave concerns at IT's hip injury which may indicate it is worse than first believed. That leaves you with Crowder+Zizic, two glue guys but by no means irreplaceable. I'd much rather part with Crowder than Tatum or Brown, who will be the backbone of the team for a long time to come. There aren't enough minutes to satisfy Crowder/Tatum/Brown/Hayward. Someone was getting cut loose and Crowder was the obvious choice.

Then comes the draft pick, which was a bit excessive but let's see what that # pick actually turns into before we react to that part of the trade.

It's possible the Cavs lose IT and Lebron next summer, their future is very uncertain. And swapping IT for Kyrie certainly not even close to enough to beat the Warriors.

The Celtics are thinking long term, not short term.

 

[King]

Kyrie is better than Thomas. He's much younger too. Thomas is going to fall off a cliff as he ages because of his height. Once he loses his speed it is game over. Thomas was going to be gone next summer regardless unless you want to pay an aging player max cash which the Celtics probably do not want to do, and the Cavs probably won't retain him either. Anthony Davis is where the money should be spent, not IT.

The Celtics also noted grave concerns at IT's hip injury which may indicate it is worse than first believed. That leaves you with Crowder+Zizic, two glue guys but by no means irreplaceable. I'd much rather part with Crowder than Tatum or Brown, who will be the backbone of the team for a long time to come. There aren't enough minutes to satisfy Crowder/Tatum/Brown/Hayward. Someone was getting cut loose and Crowder was the obvious choice.

Then comes the draft pick, which was a bit excessive but let's see what that # pick actually turns into before we react to that part of the trade.

It's possible the Cavs lose IT and Lebron next summer, their future is very uncertain. And swapping IT for Kyrie certainly not even close to enough to beat the Warriors.

The Celtics are thinking long term, not short term.

Most definitely they're looking to be good for the future, but Isaiah Thomas is still one of the best scoring point guards in the league right now, and he's in his prime right now. Height is probably the only reason I can think of that you'd rather get rid of him because he's not that old I mean 28 is around the prime of your career. Kyrie is only 3 years younger, and Gordan Hayward / Al Horford are around the same age as Isaiah anyways, so if they're looking to be good in the long term, then I'd expect them to get another center in the near future to replace Al as he's only going to be going downhill in the next few years.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

Most definitely they're looking to be good for the future, but Isaiah Thomas is still one of the best scoring point guards in the league right now, and he's in his prime right now. Height is probably the only reason I can think of that you'd rather get rid of him because he's not that old I mean 28 is around the prime of your career. Kyrie is only 3 years younger, and Gordan Hayward / Al Horford are around the same age as Isaiah anyways, so if they're looking to be good in the long term, then I'd expect them to get another center in the near future to replace Al as he's only going to be going downhill in the next few years.

I don't think it's as much age concern with IT as it is his serious lack of height. His most lethal weapon is, as I said, his speed. But once he loses that, he's done because he doesn't have the height to create anything, just his speed. Add in the fact he is due a payday in a year and that this hip injury could be much worse than anticipated and it makes a lot more sense to ship him off. Every year he ages is lost speed. That is the first thing to go.

Think of it this way, you're not building to beat just the Cavs, you're building to beat the Warriors. What better way to do that then a guy that already has a GW shot in Game 7 against a 73-9 team on his resume. A guy with size, speed, and similar IT scoring ability. He has proven he can torch the Warriors. Thomas has proven he cannot do anything to damage the Cavaliers. You stick Lebron on him and that is that, he's done.

I love IT and I will miss him but this trade was necessary for the future of the organization. Hopefully now they can sign Kyrie to an extension, make a serious go at Anthony Davis in the near future or some other bonafide superstar, and continue to build this team which is quickly becoming quite good.

Lost in all of this is maybe Boston will try to bring him back next summer. That's always another possibility. There's a very high chance IT does not stick around in Cleveland for very long. He's going to get paid by some team. Even if it's not a powerhouse, a desperate team with money will overpay him. So the Cavs better make great use of that pick or they lost Kyrie for virtually nothing.

Also, you have to remember that IT was the FACE of the Celtics. I can say with pretty high certainty that he will not sniff those numbers playing second fiddle to Lebron. The Cavs are not his team. The Celtics were his team. Almost all of the offense ran through IT. That is no longer the case. I expect a drop in production automatically based on that.

Kyrie got 25 ppg playing second fiddle to Lebron. Let's see what this guy can do with his own team now. Because they are going to be his team, I'd imagine.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

@RebornKings Think of it this way too, worst case scenario the Cavs win the title next year, then our boy IT gets a ring. I don't think he can get one in Boston if I'm being brutally honest. I don't even think the Celtics with Kyrie can get close to the Warriors still, even if they beat the Cavs. But Lebron is good enough to will a team past teams far better than his, so maybe IT could win a ring that way.

 

[King]

@RebornKings Think of it this way too, worst case scenario the Cavs win the title next year, then our boy IT gets a ring. I don't think he can get one in Boston if I'm being brutally honest. I don't even think the Celtics with Kyrie can get close to the Warriors still, even if they beat the Cavs. But Lebron is good enough to will a team past teams far better than his, so maybe IT could win a ring that way.

Yeah definitely bro I see where you're coming from. Any team with LeBron is already a title contender anyways, and this can take more of a workload off IT, and LeBron being able to help IT on defense will help his game a lot. I just can't see anyone beating GSW at the moment, but definitely I'd be happy if IT got a ring at Cleveland even though I'm a big Celtics fan because of what IT has been through, and what he's done for the city since he came here.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

Yeah definitely bro I see where you're coming from. Any team with LeBron is already a title contender anyways, and this can take more of a workload off IT, and LeBron being able to help IT on defense will help his game a lot. I just can't see anyone beating GSW at the moment, but definitely I'd be happy if IT got a ring at Cleveland even though I'm a big Celtics fan because of what IT has been through, and what he's done for the city since he came here.

It's definitely bittersweet, and I'm not too happy the draft pick was included given the Cavs should have been dealing from a place of weakness but we let them get a lot.

 

[uJesternWind]

I don't think it's as much age concern with IT as it is his serious lack of height. His most lethal weapon is, as I said, his speed. But once he loses that, he's done because he doesn't have the height to create anything, just his speed. Add in the fact he is due a payday in a year and that this hip injury could be much worse than anticipated and it makes a lot more sense to ship him off. Every year he ages is lost speed. That is the first thing to go.

Think of it this way, you're not building to beat just the Cavs, you're building to beat the Warriors. What better way to do that then a guy that already has a GW shot in Game 7 against a 73-9 team on his resume. A guy with size, speed, and similar IT scoring ability. He has proven he can torch the Warriors. Thomas has proven he cannot do anything to damage the Cavaliers. You stick Lebron on him and that is that, he's done.

I love IT and I will miss him but this trade was necessary for the future of the organization. Hopefully now they can sign Kyrie to an extension, make a serious go at Anthony Davis in the near future or some other bonafide superstar, and continue to build this team which is quickly becoming quite good.

Lost in all of this is maybe Boston will try to bring him back next summer. That's always another possibility. There's a very high chance IT does not stick around in Cleveland for very long. He's going to get paid by some team. Even if it's not a powerhouse, a desperate team with money will overpay him. So the Cavs better make great use of that pick or they lost Kyrie for virtually nothing.

Also, you have to remember that IT was the FACE of the Celtics. I can say with pretty high certainty that he will not sniff those numbers playing second fiddle to Lebron. The Cavs are not his team. The Celtics were his team. Almost all of the offense ran through IT. That is no longer the case. I expect a drop in production automatically based on that.

Kyrie got 25 ppg playing second fiddle to Lebron. Let's see what this guy can do with his own team now. Because they are going to be his team, I'd imagine.

This is the right take of the situation and hits on pretty much all the key points - IT is currently in his prime and thus will start losing his speed about now. Short PGs who rely heavily on speed, as history has shown, do not age well. Especially in a contract year where IT is probably expecting the max, it seems to be the right move for the Celtics. Though to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the Cavs offer him a Lowry-esque extension, max money but 3 years instead of 5, to save themselves from more of the decline. Wasn't sure if they needed to toss in the pick as well though, they seem to be pretty high on Kyrie.

I don't really know why I felt the need to essentially rehash everything that you said lol. But yeah, pretty much everything you said is spot on.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

This is the right take of the situation and hits on pretty much all the key points - IT is currently in his prime and thus will start losing his speed about now. Short PGs who rely heavily on speed, as history has shown, do not age well. Especially in a contract year where IT is probably expecting the max, it seems to be the right move for the Celtics. Though to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if the Cavs offer him a Lowry-esque extension, max money but 3 years instead of 5, to save themselves from more of the decline. Wasn't sure if they needed to toss in the pick as well though, they seem to be pretty high on Kyrie.

I don't really know why I felt the need to essentially rehash everything that you said lol. But yeah, pretty much everything you said is spot on.

I agree man, there's nothing wrong with offering your two cents mate. If anything it helps me see if I omitted anything that hurts my position. I think a lot of the Celtics fans that are reacting so violently / negatively are sentimentalists. We all love IT and it sucks to see him go. But I'd rather see him go now and get an excellent asset for him than see him walk because a contract cannot be negotiated, which really isn't all that uncommon especially when you're dealing with a risky proposition/contract. And as much as I love IT, it is a risk.

Also apparently they were very, very worried about his hip injury. Perhaps the Celtics know something we don't. Time will tell how bad losing that draft pick hurts us, but with the new 'tanking' meta in the NBA that pick might not be as good as people think.

Kyrie is the much better long term option, and Crowder was surplus to requirements with obscene depth at that position. We need to start grooming Tatum/Brown NOW, because they are going to be HUGE pieces to the C's down the line. I'm so happy we didn't include them in the trade.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/health...y-key-cavs-celtics-blockbuster-175050578.html

Interesting article

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

Instagram post by HoodClips • Aug 24, 2017 at 11:01pm UTC

 

I'd rather have a player that is mature than an immature minded player like Kyrie- he got weak. "I want to be traded because I want to be #1". I get it, but it's just so immature to do that when you're playing with arguably the best player of all time in his prime. To each his own I suppose.

Cavs got the better end here, but IT/LBJ could end up leaving them next year, which does not bode well for Cavs fans.

 

[I Bleed Duke Blue]

I'd rather have a player that is mature than an immature minded player like Kyrie- he got weak. "I want to be traded because I want to be #1". I get it, but it's just so immature to do that when you're playing with arguably the best player of all time in his prime. To each his own I suppose.

Cavs got the better end here, but IT/LBJ could end up leaving them next year, which does not bode well for Cavs fans.

Sources: Cavs examine Thomas, mull next step

Lol..

 

[fruitoftay]

Sixers finally make a return to the playoffs