The thread disproves god entirely

[Shredderbeam]

God didnt create misery... God created life. And with life he created free will... Up until Adam and Eve ate a fruit from the forbidden tree... there was no pain... no misery... But after they proved they were no longer loyal to him he released them from their "shell".

God is omniscient (all-knowing) and omnipotent (all-powerful). When he created life, he knew EXACTLY what would happen. He knew that Adam and Eve (who didn't actually exist -.-) would eat out of forbidden tree, yet he went ahead anyway.

Thats like saying you did something wrong and your parents get onto you... Does that mean they dont love you? It means you earn what you get and until you do something to show you are no longer deserving of something you get that something.

So, if I don't accept Jesus as my savior, I have "earned" eternity in burning agony?

He wanted people so that he could see if something with free will and a mind of its own would actually stay true to what is right... Or follow what is wrong.

He is omniscient. He should already know.

Any more questions?

Yes. You have your neat little arguments that I'm sure you're very proud of. However, you haven't really done anything other than try to contradict one of my arguments. Tell me: What evidence is there to support the existence of an all-powerful, eternally loving God?

 

[Fallen Soul]

So, if I don't accept Jesus as my savior, I have "earned" eternity in burning agony?

Yup
K think of it this way. If you gave your son to die on the cross for all the people who have sinned so they would have a new way of repentance. Wouldnt you be pissed if they said "fuck it I dont care". I would be pretty mad too, and say then if you didnt care then you can spend your eternity with the others who didnt care and raped and murded people And with the fallen angel Lucifer.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Yup
K think of it this way. If you gave your son to die on the cross for all the people who have sinned so they would have a new way of repentance. Wouldnt you be pissed if they said "fuck it I dont care". I would be pretty mad too, and say then if you didnt care then you can spend your eternity with the others who didnt care and raped and murded people And with the fallen angel Lucifer.

What a lovely religion! "Follow me, or burn in supreme agony for eternity!"

God decided himself to send his son down. Why couldn't the omniscient and omnipotent creator find a way to save us without having a human be tortured on a cross?

By the way, according to Christianity, Jesus is alive in heaven. God doesn't really have a right to be so angry.

 

[lo0t]

your a fag.
:]

i believe in god
and i cant wait till
your burnin in hell
waiting to fuckin die
but you cant
GG Verbally k0ed.

 

[Shredderbeam]

your a fag.
:]

i believe in god
and i cant wait till
your burnin in hell
waiting to fuckin die
but you cant
GG Verbally k0ed.

What you're basically saying is "You're just wrong and you'll be sorry!". That proves NOTHING. Seriously, don't come here if you aren't capable of fielding the level of intelligence required.

And no, I'm not gay. Not that that has anything to do with this argument whatsoever, but...

 

[runaway_riot]

Alright... This is a touchy subject so... Let me try to answer the stuff for you in a somewhat... better way...

God made Adam and Eve and they knew he was God... God gave them free will to do as they wanted but only one rule.. The forbidden tree deal. Sure he knew that they would. But being the loving God he is wanted to give them a chance to see if showing how powerful and gracious he is would make them turn to him.

If you dont accept him sadly you do join Lucifers army. In the Bible it says that there are those who can be saved that God focuses on. And there are those who have denied him to much to ever make them believe. He trys to show everyone that shows the slightest chance of being saved that he loves them. People just over look it. Now Hell has been turned into this fire pit of flaming people.... By that point you are a soul... you wont be burning physically but you wont be in a happy place.. if that makes scence.

Now for the Jesus thing. Lo0t didnt make it sound exactly right. Before Jesus' death people had to sacrifice an animal to be forgiven. That animal was usually a Lamb... The world had already become bitterly cold to God. So he sent his son. Jesus. Born of a virgin. He healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, and taught the lame to walk. But as the ultimate sacrifice Jesus was given to the world as the Lamb of God to show just how much he cared. Sure you might say "How can a loving God kill his own son" back in that time people offered their most prized cattle and sheep to show how much they wanted to be redeemed. And offering His son, was like offering the most prized sheep the world has ever and will ever see.

I'm not trying to make this an arguement. I'm simply trying to clear questions up for you and maybe help you if thats what you want. Media makes Christians look like a judgemental group who goes to extremes to convert people... Sure there are some... but that makes up about 4% of the Christian family.

I am here to help and will answer any questions you have.

Caleb

 

[Shredderbeam]

God made Adam and Eve and they knew he was God... God gave them free will to do as they wanted but only one rule.. The forbidden tree deal. Sure he knew that they would. But being the loving God he is wanted to give them a chance to see if showing how powerful and gracious he is would make them turn to him.

But as you just admitted, he already knew exactly what they would do. He didn't have to "see" anything.

If you dont accept him sadly you do join Lucifers army. In the Bible it says that there are those who can be saved that God focuses on. And there are those who have denied him to much to ever make them believe. He trys to show everyone that shows the slightest chance of being saved that he loves them. People just over look it. Now Hell has been turned into this fire pit of flaming people.... By that point you are a soul... you wont be burning physically but you wont be in a happy place.. if that makes scence.

He never really tried that hard to convince me, or anyone that I know.

Now for the Jesus thing. Lo0t didnt make it sound exactly right. Before Jesus' death people had to sacrifice an animal to be forgiven. That animal was usually a Lamb... The world had already become bitterly cold to God. So he sent his son. Jesus. Born of a virgin. He healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, and taught the lame to walk. But as the ultimate sacrifice Jesus was given to the world as the Lamb of God to show just how much he cared. Sure you might say "How can a loving God kill his own son" back in that time people offered their most prized cattle and sheep to show how much they wanted to be redeemed. And offering His son, was like offering the most prized sheep the world has ever and will ever see.

Yet God, being omnipotent, could have found a workaround to putting a human being through such throes of agony.

I'm not trying to make this an arguement. I'm simply trying to clear questions up for you and maybe help you if thats what you want. Media makes Christians look like a judgemental group who goes to extremes to convert people... Sure there are some... but that makes up about 4% of the Christian family.

I don't really need my questions answered; I was a Catholic once, and I know most of what you need to know about the faith. However, all you're doing is trying to contradict one particular argument I am putting forth. I still haven't seen any evidence that would make you believe in a God.

 

[Fallen Soul]

What a lovely religion! "Follow me, or burn in supreme agony for eternity!"

God decided himself to send his son down. Why couldn't the omniscient and omnipotent creator find a way to save us without having a human be tortured on a cross?

By the way, according to Christianity, Jesus is alive in heaven. God doesn't really have a right to be so angry.

First of all God isn't angry! God doesn't punish us we punish ourselves. You are right Jesus is alive in heaven. The reason Jesus was tortured on the cross is so that all of humanity would have the ability of forgiveness regardless of their ability or access to give an offering of TRUE REPENTANCE (saying I'm SORRY without meaning it and continuing to live in a self-centered way is not true repentance) God always has and always will forgive us. Jesus' Death on the Cross is an "Easier-Softer Way" of forgiveness and we should be GRATEFUL seeing as how in the past, we failed at getting saved, because we wanted GODS HELP yet, didn't want to OBEY the "correct way of living" Which is FOOLISH...because that's the way HE designed us to live. Now you know why this world is messed up.
P.S
Catholic's give Christianity a Bad Rep. They have A LEGALIZED Religion A.K.A a CULT. Just READ your bible and you will know the truth and that truth will set you free!!!!

 

[dpunk]

First of all God isn't angry! God doesn't punish us we punish ourselves. You are right Jesus is alive in heaven. The reason Jesus was tortured on the cross is so that all of humanity would have the ability of forgiveness regardless of their ability or access to give an offering of TRUE REPENTANCE (saying I'm SORRY without meaning it and continuing to live in a self-centered way is not true repentance) God always has and always will forgive us. Jesus' Death on the Cross is an "Easier-Softer Way" of forgiveness and we should be GRATEFUL seeing as how in the past, we failed at getting saved, because we wanted GODS HELP yet, didn't want to OBEY the "correct way of living" Which is FOOLISH...because that's the way HE designed us to live. Now you know why this world is messed up.
P.S
Catholic's give Christianity a Bad Rep. They have A LEGALIZED Religion A.K.A a CULT. Just READ your bible and you will know the truth and that truth will set you free!!!!

Wait...what? Could this be a contradiction I see?

First of all God isn't angry

Wouldnt you be pissed if they said "fuck it I dont care". I would be pretty mad too, and say then if you didnt care then you can spend your eternity with the others who didnt care and raped and murded people

Stick to one idea would ya?

 

[Fallen Soul]

lol my mom did that one when I was in the other room.....

No I used it as like a kinda example, not in an actual sense. Like would you be mad if you gave your son for repentance of people. For the reason that hell is there.

 

[dpunk]

lol my mom did that one when I was in the other room.....

No I used it as like a kinda example, not in an actual sense. Like would you be mad if you gave your son for repentance of people. For the reason that hell is there.

Wow, I've never heard the "my mom did it" excuse before. Just cut you're loss.

 

[Fallen Soul]

lol, No joke, she seen me typing in it and when i went out side she did it. I do think the same thing though but yeah.

 

[dpunk]

lol, No joke, she seen me typing in it and when i went out side she did it. I do think the same thing though but yeah.

Lawl. Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Trustworthybutnottrusted]

Faith is faith. Get over it people. If you can change someone's mind on whether God exists or not they need to be an atheist.

This thread needs to be CLOSED. There is no disproving of the unprovable!




There I said it. Now disect my post and say i'm in an idiot =).

 

[dpunk]

Faith is faith. Get over it people. If you can change someone's mind on whether God exists or not they need to be an atheist.

This thread needs to be CLOSED. There is no disproving of the unprovable!

The main thing I try to do is not to prove to them that God doesn't exist, its more along the lines of getting them to think for themselves. If a person starts to think outside of their little bubble, start with no presuppositions, then truly seek evidence of God's existence in order to logically prove to themselves that in fact one does exist, then eventually the truth will become apparent to them that there isn't one.

There I said it. Now disect my post and say i'm in an idiot =).

/me dissects. You're an idiot

 

[hailmatt69]

I believe every person has their own god, religion is just a way of organizing those beliefs. Don't think of god as such a physical being, but as a thought in one's mind. Because of this it is absolutly impossible to disprove everyone's god, as well as it is impossible to prove the existence of a single perfect god.

 

[atreyuftw]

For one, stop using, perfect means complete, need nothing, because in this thread you have probably used it over 50 times, and you say it whenever you get backed into a corner. And because, that isn't the full definition. The full definition is excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement, there are also many other definitions.

See, pefect does not mean one can do anything, nor that he can't do anything. Perfect, is a state of being, I could say a fork is perfect for eating things with, and, by all means, it could be called perfect, and it wouldn't be a false statement. Perfect, is exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose. And God does just that. God is perfect, and he didn't make imperfect people. God gave us free will, we can do whatever we want with it. God, will not interfere when we have a war, or a fight, or spill juice on ourselves. He made a perfect world, and perfect humans, but when we disobey God, when we think we know what's best for us rather than Him, that is when we are imperfect.

You said, well, isn't God somewhat responsible for the creation of evil, no, because evil was never created, evil is simply the absence from when God is not present in a situation.

He allows evil, because of just that, we are free willed beings. We make the choices, we make the decisions, he willed us to be free in our choices, therefore, he will not stop us, because then, we wouldn't have free will.

I agree entirely. Evil is through a human beings choices that they make, not how god created them.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I agree entirely. Evil is through a human beings choices that they make, not how god created them.

God created them, giving them whatever traits drew them to evil in the first place.

 

[Ryan]

Sorry to butt into your very interesting and intense argument but.
I must compliment Dorito on his effort to prove what, in my opinion is correct. He gave perfect examples of what i think is right.

/Continue fighting.

 

[Andrew]

You failed, whoever wrote that article is a moron. I'll be back later to disprove it, right now I have to go to work.