The thread disproves god entirely

[dpunk]

you say that god doeant exist, but god even said he created sin which alows us to have free will because he loves us, and God created us to serve him, not because he was bored. Giving us free will makes it so we are not robots, we make the choice to be perfect or not, and we have decided to be imperfect, which is why when we die we will not go to heaven the perfect place)

Oh sure, God created us with the ability to die and burn in Hell because he LOVES us.

He knows all the POSSIBLE outcomes, but he also knows and loves you. He knows that you can make good choices and bad choices and he hopes and has faith that you make the good ones.

Hoping would mean that he doesn't know what is going to happen. I don't throw my shoe up in the air and hope that it doesn't explode, because I know that under normal circumstances that it will just fall back to the ground.

You say God does not feed you? HAHA that's soo funny. One time, I told my mum the same thing. THis is what she said

"Just because God does not come to you in his Holy clothing and all that does not mean he doesn't feed you. God is present in everyone. Your mum and dad that clothe and feed you everyday is a sign of the presence of God in your life, whether you admit to it or not."

What about the Ethiopians that starve to death? Where was God while they were wasting away?

It's a test because he knows the outcomes, but he asks us the question and hopes we do the good. You keep saying over and over, yes he is omniscient, but you forget that he gave us free will.

Free will doesn't mean that he doesn't know what we will do. It just means he doesn't force us to do anything. Being omniscient means he knows EVERYTHING.

Because he gave us this free will means that they are going to be variations in the outcomes. SOrry if i'm making it sound too complicated, but simply stated, he sees everything you COULD do, but he wants to see what you are GOING TO DO.

As I said before, being omniscient means that you know EVERYTHING, including the choices that we could make, and the choices that we WILL make.

 

[xxgodfatherxx]

Hmm..If there is a god, perhaps we were created for his amusement? If he was to make us imperfect it would mean nothing. I think if there is one he gave us our freedom to chooce what "path" we will take.

 

[runaway_riot]

Alright... This has done it... I am a strong Christian and I can shoot down every last thing you said... First off have you ever read the Bible? If not then how can you just take what one person said and believe it without getting both sources? Unless you can show me where in the Bible all of your information is proven then you have no reason to talk.

Now... Since I can see you have never read the Bible let me give you some insight here... GOD WAS NEVER ALONE. In heaven there were others and one person in preticular was Lucifer... He challenged God and God banished him to the depths of hell. Next up... Who says we are the first God has created? How do we not know if there is other universes that hold life similiar to us? But when he created earth he created Adam and Eve. Both were perfect. Both had free will. The "Fallen Angel" Lucifer (AKA The Devil) still wanted to get God.. and therefore convinced Eve to eat a fruit from a tree which God had forbidden. Once God saw sin in his world nothing was perfect and thats when the whole idea of: pain, unhappiness, sadness, and any other feeling or emotion having to do with it was "found". God banished Adam and Eve from the holy garden.

Thats when i run into your "Freewill Theory" no where in the Bible does it say freewill is needed to be happy... Freewill has given so that things could choose things as <b><i>THEY</b></i> saw fit which might not be how GOD saw fit. You stated that the occupents of heaven have to be perfect to be there... Once again you are wrong... Heaven is open for anyone who recieve God as their savior and believes that Jesus died on the cross to redeem them of their sins.

Now i belive i just killed every point you made in your whole post. I would be happy to argue with you about it some more if you would like. I hope that this thread may lead you to see the true savior and save you from an eternity of darkness in hell.

Feel free to add me on MSN
[email protected]

May God Be With You,
Caleb Cross

 

[Shredderbeam]

Alright... This has done it... I am a strong Christian and I can shoot down every last thing you said... First off have you ever read the Bible? If not then how can you just take what one person said and believe it without getting both sources? Unless you can show me where in the Bible all of your information is proven then you have no reason to talk.

I've read it.

Now... Since I can see you have never read the Bible let me give you some insight here... GOD WAS NEVER ALONE. In heaven there were others and one person in preticular was Lucifer... He challenged God and God banished him to the depths of hell. Next up... Who says we are the first God has created? How do we not know if there is other universes that hold life similiar to us? But when he created earth he created Adam and Eve. Both were perfect. Both had free will. The "Fallen Angel" Lucifer (AKA The Devil) still wanted to get God.. and therefore convinced Eve to eat a fruit from a tree which God had forbidden. Once God saw sin in his world nothing was perfect and thats when the whole idea of: pain, unhappiness, sadness, and any other feeling or emotion having to do with it was "found". God banished Adam and Eve from the holy garden.

God created Lucifer, knowing he would turn against him.

Thats when i run into your "Freewill Theory" no where in the Bible does it say freewill is needed to be happy... Freewill has given so that things could choose things as <b><i>THEY</b></i> saw fit which might not be how GOD saw fit. You stated that the occupents of heaven have to be perfect to be there... Once again you are wrong... Heaven is open for anyone who recieve God as their savior and believes that Jesus died on the cross to redeem them of their sins.

Free will cannot exist, since God designs us. He designs us to act a certain way in certain situations.

Now i belive i just killed every point you made in your whole post. I would be happy to argue with you about it some more if you would like. I hope that this thread may lead you to see the true savior and save you from an eternity of darkness in hell.

You really didn't. Try reading the first post on this thread.

 

[Trustworthybutnottrusted]

Threads like these are pointless.

Why?

You cannot prove God.
You cannot disprove God.


You can have your own personal faith and set of beliefs. If you do not believe in a God, that is your choice. If you do believe in a God, that is your choice as well. Anyone that thinks that a "thread" can disprove a being that cannot even be proven in the first place...I'm not going to say.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to copy and paste every word and retort with smart aleck and incoherent responses =).

 

[Cruel__Machine]

Omnipotence and omniscience means infinite power and knowledge/wisdom. This does not imply a knowledge of, nor an ability to do, everything. Remember that, if nothing at all!

Now to response to the ground of the last few pages of this thread:
-"Why did God create us when he already knew what we are going to do?"
I don't think He knew prior to creation.
But I know He currently doesn't know all of our actions that are to take place.
-"Why did God create us with the mentality to do things against His liking?"
Did He?
This would imply that the environment, made by man, was made by God. Meaning that God knew everything we were going to do prior to creating us. Which I don't think is true.

Threads like these are pointless.
...
You cannot prove God.
You cannot disprove God.

But you can prove the possibility of a Theistic God.

Anyone that thinks that a "thread" can disprove a being that cannot even be proven in the first place...I'm not going to say.

It is impossible to disprove something that has been proven. Haha, dpunk made the same misstatement earlier.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to copy and paste every word and retort with smart aleck and incoherent responses =).

My incoherence is only a result of my trying to express such advanced ideas.

 

[Evocoderxx]

you cant prove or disprove god so just get over yourself

Can you honestly Just leave it at that? Do you not have any curiosity? I'm sure that that comment ruined this whole thread.

People have their own religions, correct? So its a personal opinion, You cant just say Theres no god, You also cant say there is one. It could offend certain people, Or perhaps change their whole views on life. Those people who believe that there is no god and they only believe the scientific point-of-view are entitled to their opinions.

Someone please continue this because i just lost my train of thought.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Omnipotence and omniscience means infinite power and knowledge/wisdom. This does not imply a knowledge of, nor an ability to do, everything. Remember that, if nothing at all!

If you have infinite power, you can do anything.

If you have infinite knowledge, you know everything.

If you cannot do everything, or do not know everything, then you are neither omnipotent or omniscient.

Now to response to the ground of the last few pages of this thread:
-"Why did God create us when he already knew what we are going to do?"
I don't think He knew prior to creation.
But I know He currently doesn't know all of our actions that are to take place.

If he doesn't know, then he's not omniscient. Omniscient means "all-knowing", and our actions would fall under the "all" category.

-"Why did God create us with the mentality to do things against His liking?"

Did He?
This would imply that the environment, made by man, was made by God. Meaning that God knew everything we were going to do prior to creating us. Which I don't think is true.

If God created us, then he created everything about us. He gave us arms, legs, intelligence, and free will. With free will is the ability to turn from God.

But you can prove the possibility of a Theistic God.

 

[Cruel__Machine]

If you have infinite power, you can do anything.

If you have infinite knowledge, you know everything.

If you cannot do everything, or do not know everything, then you are neither omnipotent or omniscient.

Wrong. You're saying a set of infinite numbers must include all real numbers. When, in fact, there can be a large, and even infinite, number of absences.
So justify your statements with your reasoning, so I can better explain.

But you can prove the possibility of a Theistic God.

Haha, o rly?
If you think so, then you agree the possibility is not disproven. So why are you an Atheist.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Wrong. You're saying a set of infinite numbers must include all real numbers. When, in fact, there can be a large, and even infinite, number of absences.

An infinite set of numbers DOES include all real numbers. I don't see what's so bad about that.

So justify your statements with your reasoning, so I can better explain.

I think it doesn't really need justifying. If God is omnipotent, that means he can literally do anything. If he is omniscient, he knows everything. That's basically the definition of those two words.

Haha, o rly?
If you think so, then you agree the possibility is not disproven. So why are you an Atheist.

Sorry, I forgot to delete that from your last message.

I do agree that you can't actually disprove it. Perhaps there is a train of indisputable logic that shows how God can love us eternally AND sentence us to Hell, and we just haven't come across it yet. Perhaps God is a sadistic bastard. Perhaps God isn't the intelligent being we imagine, and the universe is some sort of illusion on the plane of existence.. Who knows?

If the last is the case (perhaps the case that seems the most likely), then God isn't actually God. The universe is here due to natural means, and nothing needs to be worshiped. Science has triumphed, etc.

 

[A Soul's Bounds]

Why do you atheists keep wasting your time?

 

[Red_Phoenix]

This thread is becoming almost as pointless as the Westboro Baptist Church.
And God only sends sinners who do not repent for their sins to Hell.
The Holy Father will be ready to forgive anyone at anytime you just have to realise your flaws and give into his divine might.
Your God is a loving God, and if you obey his comandments eternal bliss shall await you.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Why do you atheists keep wasting your time?

It's not a waste of time. The argument posed in this thread allowed me to have my first major break with religion. I am a "convert", so to speak.

Others can be "converted" also. We must just keep trying.

 

[Jack Black]

god exists, nuff said.

 

[lordy boy]

Time well spent, all your posts on this thread, but to be honost if god is imperfect yet perfect but is also impossible, isnt it said that a "god" can do anything? Therfore he could make himself ...everything, either way i dont give a flying fuck
Have a nice day

 

[Cruel__Machine]

An infinite set of numbers DOES include all real numbers. I don't see what's so bad about that.

Well, either my math professors have all been wrong... or you need to learn more about set theory. Take the set of natural numbers as a basic example (being the easiest to prove infinite). It is infinite, but contains no values less than 0, unlike the set of integers. Neither of those sets contain all real numbers.

I think it doesn't really need justifying. If God is omnipotent, that means he can literally do anything. If he is omniscient, he knows everything. That's basically the definition of those two words.

As I said, it means infinite power and knowledge/wisdom. Nothing more.
Here's a sightly better definition:

inherent omniscience the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known

Although I personally don't believe God chooses not to know certain things. That doesn't make much sense to me. But it at least notes the impossibility to know some things.

I do agree that you can't actually disprove it. Perhaps there is a train of indisputable logic that shows how God can love us eternally AND sentence us to Hell, and we just haven't come across it yet.

We? Speak for yourself, as our logic seems to be on different planes.
You need to focus on the root of your opposition. Since I certainly hope your belief of God isn't teetering on the possibility to love and punish simultaneously.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Well, either my math professors have all been wrong... or you need to learn more about set theory. Take the set of natural numbers as a basic example (being the easiest to prove infinite). It is infinite, but contains no values less than 0, unlike the set of integers. Neither of those sets contain all real numbers.

Alright, the set of positive integers contains infinite numbers, but there is also an infinity that is not contained within.

However, when I say that God is omniscient, I am going by the definition, which is all-knowing. All-knowing means God knows EVERYTHING, with no exceptions.

As I said, it means infinite power and knowledge/wisdom. Nothing more.

You cannot actually have more power than infinite power, nor more knowledge than infinite knowledge.

Although I personally don't believe God chooses not to know certain things. That doesn't make much sense to me. But it at least notes the impossibility to know some things.

If it is impossible to know some things, then that means that for all his power, God cannot know something, which doesn't exactly make him omniscient or omnipotent.

We? Speak for yourself, as our logic seems to be on different planes.
You need to focus on the root of your opposition. Since I certainly hope your belief of God isn't teetering on the possibility to love and punish simultaneously.

It's not. However, I won't deny the possibility of a thread of logic that accomplishes what I just said.

god exists, nuff said.

Logic would be nice.

This thread is becoming almost as pointless as the Westboro Baptist Church.
And God only sends sinners who do not repent for their sins to Hell.
The Holy Father will be ready to forgive anyone at anytime you just have to realise your flaws and give into his divine might.
Your God is a loving God, and if you obey his comandments eternal bliss shall await you.

You can say that, but it doesn't actually make it true.

 

[runaway_riot]

shredderbeam2... Now i know why you closed my thread. You closed my thread because I make valid points and being the atheist you are you didnt want to face them. Now God created us with free will. Why is that so hard to understand? He didnt want robots he wanted people.

And you say I didnt make any type of point? Then why is that the only thing you can claim to have a problem with in my post?

You know exactly why you closed my thread. Because you dont want to face the truth. Now get over yourself and run this board like it should be ran

 

[Shredderbeam]

shredderbeam2... Now i know why you closed my thread. You closed my thread because I make valid points and being the atheist you are you didnt want to face them. Now God created us with free will. Why is that so hard to understand? He didnt want robots he wanted people.

I closed your thread because this thread existed, making yours redundant.

I don't want to face your points? Then why do I even attempt to argue with you religious people?

It's a simple enough concept, except that God created misery, since he created everything. A loving God would not do this.

Why would an omnipotent, infinitely wise God want people?

And you say I didnt make any type of point? Then why is that the only thing you can claim to have a problem with in my post?

I said that you didn't actually address the issue of God existing or not. You just rambled on about Satan or something...

You know exactly why you closed my thread. Because you dont want to face the truth. Now get over yourself and run this board like it should be ran

Lol.

You can post your arguments here all you want, I just feel that two threads discussing the same subject is a waste of space. One thread will suffice.

I'm not stopping you from posting your arguments. You're free to argue with I or anyone else anywhere, here, on the IRC, on MSN, etc. Just don't make an entire thread devoted to "Does God exist?"

 

[runaway_riot]

God didnt create misery... God created life. And with life he created free will... Up until Adam and Eve ate a fruit from the forbidden tree... there was no pain... no misery... But after they proved they were no longer loyal to him he released them from their "shell".

Thats like saying you did something wrong and your parents get onto you... Does that mean they dont love you? It means you earn what you get and until you do something to show you are no longer deserving of something you get that something.

He wanted people so that he could see if something with free will and a mind of its own would actually stay true to what is right... Or follow what is wrong.

Any more questions?