Since Trump was elected:

[mage3158]

Trump is a short sighted fool. His actions against the environment are going to be felt for years. His lack of a plan for healthcare are gonna leave young people like me out of coverage.
And not to mention the people he has put into office like Betsy DeVos and the new leader of the FCC are completely inexperienced for their jobs and will ravage what's left in the US.

 

[ShipTheFlip]

All he's done since he became president is persecute the weak. The immigrants, Muslims, transgender, smokers, and environment.
If there's a new health care bill many young people will probably lose coverage. Currently covers to 26 previously 21. This helped me when I got out of college at 23.

If you're white, christian, straight, not in chronic pain, and born here good for you, bad for others. If he wanted to go after some people how about the millions of people who have no intention on working, live off the government, have babies, and we pay their rent. We even give them free sell phones. I understand disability or temporary aid, but there's to many competent people doing nothing.

How has he persecuted the transgender/smokers?
Islam and illegal Mexican immigrants are a danger and if you need me to go into the statistics I gladly will. However his muslim ban is extremely ineffective. Good idea, very poor execution.

 

[70i]

How has he persecuted the transgender/smokers?
Islam and illegal Mexican immigrants are a danger and if you need me to go into the statistics I gladly will. However his muslim ban is extremely ineffective. Good idea, very poor execution.

Transgender:
"The decision comes after President Trump reversed a federal directive enacted by former President Barack Obama that included bathroom rights for transgender students under title IX and advised schools to allow students to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with."
Trump Today: SCOTUS passes on transgender bathroom case

Smokers:
Not much has happened yet regarding weed, but Trump has always been against recreational use and vague about medical use. He may take action against the states where it's legal.
"Sean Spicer, President Donald Trump's press secretary, warned the burgeoning US marijuana industry that there will be "greater enforcement" of federal laws.
"I think that's a question for the Department of Justice — I do believe that you'll see greater enforcement of it [marijuana]," Spicer said during Thursday briefing, responding to a question regarding the state-federal conflict of marijuana laws."
Sean Spicer gave an ominous warning to the marijuana industry

Islam:
How is Islam dangerous? They believe in one god, charity, prayer, fasting, and compassion. There's many similarities between Judaism and Islam. Radical Islam is a different story, but you can't stereotype a group by their worst minority. The KKK is Christian, but that doesn't make all Christians racist.

Illegal immigrants:
It would be hard to provide a statistic showing that illegal Mexican immigrants are more dangerous than citizens, because the exact amount of illegal immigrants in the US isn't known, but if you have some stats I'd be happy to see them. I can speak to you from experience having at least a dozen friends who are illegal Mexican immigrants. I've never felt threatened by them or have seen them act violent towards anyone. If anything they're more cautious because they know they will get deported and separated from their family if they get arrested. I've had many people steal from me and threaten me, but all of them were born in this country.

I agree that violent immigrants should be deported, but how about the people who have lived here their whole childhood. I have one friend who's lived here since she was 2 months old, and has never walked in her birth country. She spent 13 years in the US school system, and about a month ago she was arrested for 3 days because of her legal status. That's just not right and you're a monster if you wish that upon someone who's in that situation.

Muslim ban:
"not one person from the seven countries included in the initial ban has killed anyone in a terror attack on US soil in the last 40 years. "
Chances of a refugee killing you and other immigration stats - CNNPolitics.com
So I have no idea what this ban is suppose to accomplish other than give a good reason for other countries to hate the US. Mexicans already hate us for good reason. At this rate we'll soon have no allies.

 

[ShipTheFlip]

Smoking:
I remember him saying he'll let the states decide. I haven't heard anything since besides speculation; if he does otherwise then yes I'll agree that's shitty

Islam:
How is Islam dangerous? They believe in one god, charity, prayer, fasting, and compassion. There's many similarities between Judaism and Islam. Radical Islam is a different story, but you can't stereotype a group by their worst minority. The KKK is Christian, but that doesn't make all Christians racist.

The KKK isn't 20-25% of the Christian population. Fundamentalists make up around that percentage of the Muslim population. 57% of Muslims reject homosexuals as friends, 45% don't trust the Jews and 54% believe the west is the enemy of Islam.

Moderate Muslims are also a problem when they prevent us from talking about the problem with responses such as this one (I mean no offense by that, just explaining my point of view), accusing people of 'Islamaphobia' for recognizing that there's a problem, and insisting "I'm Muslim, I'm a normal American, therefore Islam is not a problem."

Moderate Muslims are not a problem as long as they're willing to talk about the problem.

Illegal immigrant statistics:
80% Of Central American Women, Girls Are Raped Crossing Into The U.S. | The Huffington Post
"The assaults are so common that many women and girls take contraceptives beforehand as preventative measures."
"They're not sending their best people. They're rapists" I believe was the quote that everyone was so upset about from Trump...

Muslim ban:
I agreed in my previous post that it's ineffective. He left out Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, and other muslim majority countries (some speculate that they're the countries Trump does business in and that's why he left them alone). If we're gonna ban Muslims we should go all out.



It's almost 2 AM I'm tired and have a headache so I apologize if thoughts are scrambled and shit's mistyped

 

[SuF]

Smoking:
I remember him saying he'll let the states decide. I haven't heard anything since besides speculation; if he does otherwise then yes I'll agree that's shitty


The KKK isn't 20-25% of the Christian population. Fundamentalists make up around that percentage of the Muslim population. 57% of Muslims reject homosexuals as friends, 45% don't trust the Jews and 54% believe the west is the enemy of Islam.

Moderate Muslims are also a problem when they prevent us from talking about the problem with responses such as this one (I mean no offense by that, just explaining my point of view), accusing people of 'Islamaphobia' for recognizing that there's a problem, and insisting "I'm Muslim, I'm a normal American, therefore Islam is not a problem."

Moderate Muslims are not a problem as long as they're willing to talk about the problem.

Illegal immigrant statistics:
80% Of Central American Women, Girls Are Raped Crossing Into The U.S. | The Huffington Post
"The assaults are so common that many women and girls take contraceptives beforehand as preventative measures."
"They're not sending their best people. They're rapists" I believe was the quote that everyone was so upset about from Trump...

Muslim ban:
I agreed in my previous post that it's ineffective. He left out Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, and other muslim majority countries (some speculate that they're the countries Trump does business in and that's why he left them alone). If we're gonna ban Muslims we should go all out.



It's almost 2 AM I'm tired and have a headache so I apologize if thoughts are scrambled and shit's mistyped

Women are raped on their journey to the US not by immigrants who come to the US. You'll have to come up with better statistics for immigrants being dangerous.

 

[ShipTheFlip]

Women are raped on their journey to the US not by immigrants who come to the US. You'll have to come up with better statistics for immigrants being dangerous.

Where did you get that?
"Rape can be perpetrated by anyone along the way, including guides, fellow migrants, bandits or government officials, according to Fusion."

So not all 80% are raped by other illegal immigrants, doesn't mean none of them are lol.

 

[SuF]

Where did you get that?
"Rape can be perpetrated by anyone along the way, including guides, fellow migrants, bandits or government officials, according to Fusion."

So not all 80% are raped by other illegal immigrants, doesn't mean none of them are lol.

I did not mean to imply literally none. Sorry about that but burdon of proof lies on you to prove your claim. Unless you have more finely grained statistics it's fair to assume you are not correct.

 

[ShipTheFlip]

I did not mean to imply literally none. Sorry about that but burdon of proof lies on you to prove your claim. Unless you have more finely grained statistics it's fair to assume you are not correct.

Page 43 and 44 of the FBI's 79-page National Gang Report from 2013 explains how illegal immigrants are stalking and luring children of ages as low as 12 years old into juvenile prostitution and human sex trafficking.

I know what your response will be, that this is about gangs and not about illegal immigrants. My response to that:

The section "Gangs & the U.S. border" documents gangs "especially national-level Hispanic gangs, such as MS-13, the Eme, Sureños, and TB, continue to pose a significant threat to the Southwest border region.” and that in south-west border sectors that the percentage of non-US citizen gang members was as high as 80%.

It's true that many illegal immigrants are wreaking havoc in the United States.

Source (PDF download)

 

[ShipTheFlip]

I did not mean to imply literally none. Sorry about that but burdon of proof lies on you to prove your claim. Unless you have more finely grained statistics it's fair to assume you are not correct.

As 70i said, it's hard to provide exact statistics since the number of illegal immigrants is unknown and they make it a goal to NOT be documented. I'm doing the best I can. Neither side can provide 100% accurate statistics on the entire illegal population, we just have to look at what data we do have and decide based on that.

Obviously not all illegal immigrants are bad people. But it's like the moderate vs fundamentalist Muslim debate, we have people inadvertantly (spelling) defending the good ones by refusing to talk about the evil ones.

 

[70i]

Smoking:
The KKK isn't 20-25% of the Christian population. Fundamentalists make up around that percentage of the Muslim population. 57% of Muslims reject homosexuals as friends, 45% don't trust the Jews and 54% believe the west is the enemy of Islam.

Where are you getting these stats from. I'm pretty sure the amount of Muslims that are radical is about 1%. It doesn't seem right to ban a group of people based off such a low percentage of them.

I highly doubt it's against Islamic teachings to be friends with homosexuals and Jews. And I doubt Islam teaches that the west is a danger. Many Muslims live in the west. I'm sure many Muslim believe this but so do many people who aren't Muslim.

Immigrants:
I'm not surprised many women get raped crossing the border, but 80% seems to high. I'd believe around 30%. My friend nearly died crossing the border living on only corn for 2 weeks. This doesn't mean that all Mexicans coming here are rapist rather just the people that are smuggling people in. Crossing the border is an illegal business which is why more crimes occur. It's not like these women can go to the police. A lot of drug dealers have illegal guns, but if they weren't dealing drugs then they probably wouldn't have the guns.

 

[ShipTheFlip]

Where are you getting these stats from. I'm pretty sure the amount of Muslims that are radical is about 1%. It doesn't seem right to ban a group of people based off such a low percentage of them.

I highly doubt it's against Islamic teachings to be friends with homosexuals and Jews. And I doubt Islam teaches that the west is a danger. Many Muslims live in the west. I'm sure many Muslim believe this but so do many people who aren't Muslim.

Immigrants:
I'm not surprised many women get raped crossing the border, but 80% seems to high. I'd believe around 30%. My friend nearly died crossing the border living on only corn for 2 weeks. This doesn't mean that all Mexicans coming here are rapist rather just the people that are smuggling people in. Crossing the border is an illegal business which is why more crimes occur. It's not like these women can go to the police. A lot of drug dealers have illegal guns, but if they weren't dealing drugs then they probably wouldn't have the guns.

Jesus Christ man put some effort into it

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" .

Quran (26:165-106) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"

I can't find the article I read about % of Muslims that are fundamentalists, I hope I'm remembering that figure correctly. Fundamentalist =/= Radical though. Fundamentalists believe in a literal interpretation of the doctrines of Islam (for example, in Quran 7:80-84 it says "we rained down on them a shower of brimstone", and so some are stoning gays to death.

As for the violence on the west part of your reply
The Quran's Verses of Violence

Hit Ctrl+F and type "West" and read for yourself what Muslim religious leaders' interpretations are.

On the immigrant part I already linked you to the statistics and I think they are slightly more relevant than your guess. But even if your guess was correct, do you not think 30% is too high? The feminist myth that 1/4 college women are raped is causing quite a lot of bitching, and that's 5% less than your guess.

 

[Ambotrade]

trump or clinton


trump

 

[70i]

Jesus Christ man put some effort into it

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" .

Quran (26:165-106) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"

I can't find the article I read about % of Muslims that are fundamentalists, I hope I'm remembering that figure correctly. Fundamentalist =/= Radical though. Fundamentalists believe in a literal interpretation of the doctrines of Islam (for example, in Quran 7:80-84 it says "we rained down on them a shower of brimstone", and so some are stoning gays to death.

As for the violence on the west part of your reply
The Quran's Verses of Violence

Hit Ctrl+F and type "West" and read for yourself what Muslim religious leaders' interpretations are.

On the immigrant part I already linked you to the statistics and I think they are slightly more relevant than your guess. But even if your guess was correct, do you not think 30% is too high? The feminist myth that 1/4 college women are raped is causing quite a lot of bitching, and that's 5% less than your guess.

Do research yourself. The bible says similar or worse things, but most forms of Christianity allow their follows to be friends with homosexuals. Something being in the Quaron doesn't imply they must follow it.

 

[ShipTheFlip]

Do research yourself. The bible says similar or worse things, but most forms of Christianity allow their follows to be friends with homosexuals. Something being in the Quaron doesn't imply they must follow it.

The whole "this is also bad" argument doesn't really apply because Christianity was never mentioned but if it was I'd tell you I hate that religion only slightly less than Islam. And you're right, but 20-25% of them do follow it. Of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, that's 320-400 million people.

 

[70i]

The whole "this is also bad" argument doesn't really apply because Christianity was never mentioned but if it was I'd tell you I hate that religion only slightly less than Islam. And you're right, but 20-25% of them do follow it. Of the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, that's 320-400 million people.

My point isnt that its bad my point is that you cant take quotes from the quoron and bible and say their followers follow it literally. Where are you getting these stats from

 

[ShipTheFlip]

My point isnt that its bad my point is that you cant take quotes from the quoron and bible and say their followers follow it literally. Where are you getting these stats from

I'm done with you. I've wasted way too much of my time showing you sources just to have you respond with fact-based opinions and requests for more sources. You have the same Google that I do (www.google.com)

Put some effort into your posts and I'll gladly debate you

 

Jesus Christ man put some effort into it

Quran (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" .

Quran (26:165-106) - "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing"

Quran (4:16) - "If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone"

I can't find the article I read about % of Muslims that are fundamentalists, I hope I'm remembering that figure correctly. Fundamentalist =/= Radical though. Fundamentalists believe in a literal interpretation of the doctrines of Islam (for example, in Quran 7:80-84 it says "we rained down on them a shower of brimstone", and so some are stoning gays to death.

As for the violence on the west part of your reply
The Quran's Verses of Violence

Hit Ctrl+F and type "West" and read for yourself what Muslim religious leaders' interpretations are.

On the immigrant part I already linked you to the statistics and I think they are slightly more relevant than your guess. But even if your guess was correct, do you not think 30% is too high? The feminist myth that 1/4 college women are raped is causing quite a lot of bitching, and that's 5% less than your guess.

Right so the inherent issue with a ban on Muslims is the fact that moderates exist. It would be unjust and frankly outright stupid to blanket-ban the entire religion just to avoid fundamentalists. Fundamentalism can easily be screened for. You simply apply a stronger filter if you don't want those values in your country. As an example, there are droves of moderate Muslims in the Iranian scientific community. That scientific community is actually quite strong. Denying your country, economy, and workforce access to those moderate workers on the pretence of their religion is foolish and short-sighted.

My point isnt that its bad my point is that you cant take quotes from the quoron and bible and say their followers follow it literally. Where are you getting these stats from

This article falls in line with what @Wintastical is describing, though his numbers are understandably off: How widespread is Islamic fundamentalism in Western Europe?

Note that that article is for European immigrants and not American, however I believe there is a juxtaposition to be taken from this.

 

[ShipTheFlip]

Right so the inherent issue with a ban on Muslims is the fact that moderates exist. It would be unjust and frankly outright stupid to blanket-ban the entire religion just to avoid fundamentalists. Fundamentalism can easily be screened for. You simply apply a stronger filter if you don't want those values in your country. As an example, there are droves of moderate Muslims in the Iranian scientific community. That scientific community is actually quite strong. Denying your country, economy, and workforce access to those moderate workers on the pretence of their religion is foolish and short-sighted.

I'm not a fan of the Muslim ban. But I am a fan of having a president who's willing to openly admit that Islam is a problem. There was no mention of radical Islam after the Orlando shooting, Clinton couldn't even say the words. And when I say Islam is a problem I obviously don't mean every Muslim is a problem. The biggest concerns I hear from the left about Trump are his treatment of women, possible future treatment of homosexuals, and "racism/Xenophobia". If they're afraid of a world where gays are being thrown from rooftops and women having battery acid thrown in their face for the crime of learning to read then they share a common enemy with Trump because that's already happening elsewhere.

I don't know how this vetting could take place personally. If someone wishes harm then they can simply answer no to the question "Do you believe your daughter should have her head chopped off if she marries outside of the religion" to get into the country. The Muslim ban as it stands is obviously ineffective. What solution would you propose? I'm one of those people that recognizes a problem but has no fuckin idea how to solve it and would love to hear your opinion

I'm not even a Trump supporter btw. Just someone who thought he was our best option. Sorry I'm in a hurry hope I made sense

 

I'm not a fan of the Muslim ban. But I am a fan of having a president who's willing to openly admit that Islam is a problem. There was no mention of radical Islam after the Orlando shooting, Clinton couldn't even say the words. And when I say Islam is a problem I obviously don't mean every Muslim is a problem. The biggest concerns I hear from the left about Trump are his treatment of women, possible future treatment of homosexuals, and "racism/Xenophobia". If they're afraid of a world where gays are being thrown from rooftops and women having battery acid thrown in their face for the crime of learning to read then they share a common enemy with Trump because that's already happening elsewhere.

I don't know how this vetting could take place personally. If someone wishes harm then they can simply answer no to the question "Do you believe your daughter should have her head chopped off if she marries outside of the religion" to get into the country. The Muslim ban as it stands is obviously ineffective. What solution would you propose? I'm one of those people that recognizes a problem but has no fuckin idea how to solve it and would love to hear your opinion

I'm not even a Trump supporter btw. Just someone who thought he was our best option. Sorry I'm in a hurry hope I made sense

Yeah totally, I think we're on the same page here. I simply recognise that moderate Muslims are not a problem. You'd have to screen for that, somehow. The only thing I can think of is a polygraph but those things are unreliable and inconclusive. A simple background check would probably be enough - if x behaviour is exhibited in the immigrant's home country by himself/family members, that raises a red flag. Polygraphing after those red flags are raised could be a better option. Background check first, then polygraph.