Should multiple recognized gender identities become the norm?

EDIT: Just realized my title says gender identities and my above post is talking about sexual identities. I guess the thread can be about both types of identification now at this point

The social justice movement (@tumblr) has spawned a huge variety of people seeking equality in society. It started as homosexuals vying for equal rights legally and in marriage, which then now has moved onto the LGBT community as a whole. Now, the movement is evolving and stepping into territory where those who identify as more than just male or female are seeking equality, or in the case of any movement, superiority (radicals).

I have a pretty controversial opinion when it comes to this. I personally think that whatever organs you're born with dictates your sex, but not necessarily your gender. That part is fine, most can agree with that. I do, however, also believe that unless you specifically change your gender later in life (trans), that you remain your birth gender. Now, the flipside to that is that I don't fully understand wanting to identify as something different. I don't feel that specific habits or actions that are linked to a gender in modern society should be unique to only that gender - if you're a boy and you like to paint your nails, paint your god damn nails. Who cares? You don't have to create a gender niche for yourself because you like to do something that may be regarded as being feminine.

Now, I could be completely oblivious. If identifying with a different gender is relevant to the organs and wanting to literally be a female, then fine, but I don't understand it.

Really, in a "tl;dr", why can't we all just be human? I don't think that actions and habits should be linked to a specific gender at all. Is that so wrong?

 

[nodnarbusn]

I completely agree with you. I think people "identifying" as another gender is outright silly.


If you are gay be gay, but gender is not a choice.

 

[Xier0]

If you are gay be gay, but gender is not a choice.

That's what these tumblr "activists" are disputing. They say gender IS a choice. If you have a vagina, but you "identify" as a man, then you are a man. Then people go on to "identify" as cats, dragons, unicorns, etc. Then they self-diagnose themselves with various mental ailments and say they are "triggered" by this or that. Then they say that everyone is equal, unless you are white, male, straight, or cis- because then your opinion doesn't matter because you are privileged.

The whole site is just a circle-jerk of people who aren't straight white cis males blaming everything that is wrong with them or society on straight white cis males, then everyone goes and comments "oMG DID YOU EVEN" and "I LAUGHED SO HARD MY MOM CAME TO CHECK ON ME BECAUSE SHE THOUGHT I GOT TRIGGERED OMG I LOVE THIS SITE" etc.

 

[nodnarbusn]

That's what these tumblr "activists" are disputing. They say gender IS a choice. If you have a vagina, but you "identify" as a man, then you are a man. Then people go on to "identify" as cats, dragons, unicorns, etc. Then they self-diagnose themselves with various mental ailments and say they are "triggered" by this or that. Then they say that everyone is equal, unless you are white, male, straight, or cis- because then your opinion doesn't matter because you are privileged.

The whole site is just a circle-jerk of people who aren't straight white cis males blaming everything that is wrong with them or society on straight white cis males, then everyone goes and comments "oMG DID YOU EVEN" and "I LAUGHED SO HARD MY MOM CAME TO CHECK ON ME BECAUSE SHE THOUGH I GOT TRIGGERED OMG I LOVE THIS SITE" etc.

So basically homosexuals are saying "JK im not gay bc I was a girl all along"? Fuck all that, I am not entertaining that notion for a second. Hell im all for equal rights on almost every conceivable front. But this shit right here is ridiculous...

 

[Emperor Nero]

The social justice movement (@tumblr) has spawned a huge variety of people seeking equality in society. It started as homosexuals vying for equal rights legally and in marriage, which then now has moved onto the LGBT community as a whole. Now, the movement is evolving and stepping into territory where those who identify as more than just male or female are seeking equality, or in the case of any movement, superiority (radicals).

I have a pretty controversial opinion when it comes to this. I personally think that whatever organs you're born with dictates your sex, but not necessarily your gender. That part is fine, most can agree with that. I do, however, also believe that unless you specifically change your gender later in life (trans), that you remain your birth gender. Now, the flipside to that is that I don't fully understand wanting to identify as something different. I don't feel that specific habits or actions that are linked to a gender in modern society should be unique to only that gender - if you're a boy and you like to paint your nails, paint your god damn nails. Who cares? You don't have to create a gender niche for yourself because you like to do something that may be regarded as being feminine.

Now, I could be completely oblivious. If identifying with a different gender is relevant to the organs and wanting to literally be a female, then fine, but I don't understand it.

Really, in a "tl;dr", why can't we all just be human? I don't think that actions and habits should be linked to a specific gender at all. Is that so wrong?

This reminds me of an article I read earlier on Vice about a dude who was arrested for running an brothel that catered to Zoophiles. He said he was a 'heterospecies' advocate and he said he could empathetically feel what horses and other animals felt and many of them consented to sex with humans. He claimed he was an advocate and researcher for interspecies intercourse. He sounds really fucked up. Like Nod said I am all for equal rights for everyone but you are the sex you are born as. Even if you get surgically altered you will still be that sex all of your life because of your chromosomal make up. I mean in this day and age of people scoffing at gender roles what is the importance of identifying with other gender roles. The same people that are advocating gender identities are the same people are fighting gender stereotyping and traditional gender roles, logically it makes no fucking sense.

 

[Darlington]

I agree with Blupig. The ludicrous human lust to have the seen parts of another gender is absurd. A male is a male and should stay that way. Humans are only able to undergo these gender changes because of the knowledge we have gained from the initial dispersion that happened hundreds of thousands of years ago. It's getting out of hand in my opinion. At this rate, we'll not only be seeing male reassignment surgeries and female reassignment surgeries, but a new hermaphroditic surgery, and that will be the epitome of the downfall of a natural human race.

 

You can easily exploit the environment around you with multiple gender identities.

Being arrested
Going to public restrooms
Suing others for discrimination

Most refuse to change the gender on their birth certificate for that very purpose.

 

I completely agree with you. I think people "identifying" as another gender is outright silly.


If you are gay be gay, but gender is not a choice.

People who are say, male to female transgenders aren't gay, though. Their gender is female, while their physical sex organs may be male. They can then have that reassigned if they wish to live fully as female. That's not affecting your life in any way; so why should you make ignorant comments?

That's what these tumblr "activists" are disputing. They say gender IS a choice. If you have a vagina, but you "identify" as a man, then you are a man. Then people go on to "identify" as cats, dragons, unicorns, etc. Then they self-diagnose themselves with various mental ailments and say they are "triggered" by this or that. Then they say that everyone is equal, unless you are white, male, straight, or cis- because then your opinion doesn't matter because you are privileged.

The whole site is just a circle-jerk of people who aren't straight white cis males blaming everything that is wrong with them or society on straight white cis males, then everyone goes and comments "oMG DID YOU EVEN" and "I LAUGHED SO HARD MY MOM CAME TO CHECK ON ME BECAUSE SHE THOUGH I GOT TRIGGERED OMG I LOVE THIS SITE" etc.

Gender is a choice, sex is not. You are born with a sex and not a gender. Gender is a socially constructed form of being "male" or "female" opposed to a biological one. Look up the definition of gender.

You're using a small minority of a social networking site to discredit any for arguments because you do not like them? There are a lot of fair, balanced and rational people out there who want equality and nothing more. Stereotyping a movement only intensifies the issue.

You can easily exploit the environment around you with multiple gender identities.

Being arrested
Going to public restrooms
Suing others for discrimination

Most refuse to change the gender on their birth certificate for that very reason.

Most refuse to change their gender on their BC? Where is your source? Every trans person I know has changed their BC gender and that's one of the things they're desperate to happen to make it official.
If you think people would go to the trouble of HRT, surgery and outing themselves just to exploit the environment, that's ridiculous.


@OP: I think if someone chooses to be trans then that's their choice. If it makes them comfortable so they can live life without being depressed and dysphoric then fair play to them for having the guts to make the transition. A trans person can't just be satisfied with "oh be a man and paint your nails", it's not the want to do things associated with said gender, it is only feeling comfortable as that gender because that's just how they feel they are supposed to be.

I don't see why someone elses life choices should affect anyone else, just be supportive of anyone's decisions if they're not harming anyone.

 

[nodnarbusn]

People who are say, male to female transgenders aren't gay, though. Their gender is female, while their physical sex organs may be male. They can then have that reassigned if they wish to live fully as female. That's not affecting your life in any way; so why should you make ignorant comments?


Gender is a choice, sex is not. You are born with a sex and not a gender. Gender is a socially constructed form of being "male" or "female" opposed to a biological one. Look up the definition of gender.

You're using a small minority of a social networking site to discredit any for arguments because you do not like them? There are a lot of fair, balanced and rational people out there who want equality and nothing more. Stereotyping a movement only intensifies the issue.


Most refuse to change their gender on their BC? Where is your source? Every trans person I know has changed their BC gender and that's one of the things they're desperate to happen to make it official.
If you think people would go to the trouble of HRT, surgery and outing themselves just to exploit the environment, that's ridiculous.


@OP: I think if someone chooses to be trans then that's their choice. If it makes them comfortable so they can live life without being depressed and dysphoric then fair play to them for having the guts to make the transition. A trans person can't just be satisfied with "oh be a man and paint your nails", it's not the want to do things associated with said gender, it is only feeling comfortable as that gender because that's just how they feel they are supposed to be.

I don't see why someone elses life choices should affect anyone else, just be supportive of anyone's decisions if they're not harming anyone.

Don't call opposing views ignorant on the basis that you disagree. That in turn makes you look ignorant.

Also gender identity is not a choice, I know not all people born male who identify as female are gay, In fact Laura Jane Grace (Thomas Gabel) singer of one of my favorite bands Against Me came out as trans not all that long ago.

That changes my opinion in no way shape or form. He is pushing for being acknowledged as a female and being referred to as "her" and still wants to keep his dick!

Theres the age old argument of whether someone is born gay or not, that argument is inapplicable to gender. Because gender is NOT a choice. Want to dress like a girl thats fine, want to fuck (or not fuck) other men thats fine
But i call them like I see them and I wont be calling any "trans" people outside their BIRTH gender/sex (which in reality the same fucking thing).


Take your shit to tumblr Roary, you have obviously drank the kool aid.

If a trans person needs a m or an f on their paperwork to feel "ok" about themselves or feel complete or whatever stupid excuse there is for all this nonsense then they are petty assholes to begin with.

 

No, not ignorant because you disagree. Ignorant because you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

Many people have transitioned, are completely stealth in their environment and nobody would think any different. So why, out of pure malice and awkwardness can you not accept that all people are different and whatever makes them happy, if its not hurting anyone, makes them happy. Calling someone pronouns of a gender they do not identify as is just hurtful for no reason. It does not affect your life at all..

 

[nodnarbusn]

No, not ignorant because you disagree. Ignorant because you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

Many people have transitioned, are completely stealth in their environment and nobody would think any different. So why, out of pure malice and awkwardness can you not accept that all people are different and whatever makes them happy, if its not hurting anyone, makes them happy. Calling someone pronouns of a gender they do not identify as is just hurtful for no reason. It does not affect your life at all..

I know what you are saying, I am saying IDGAF and disagree entirely. Soon we will have these tumblr fucks petetioning for their dogs to be recognized as cats at this rate.

If you want your birth certificate to show as a man or woman go through the proper channels and get gender reassignment.

But calling yourself a woman, legally "becoming a woman" (by having your BC ect changed) and still keeping your dick is having your cake and eating it too. Its fucking ridiculous.

 

If you don't mind having a dick or a vagina then why should you pay 25k to change it? Not like they're going to shove it in your face. You don't sit at the pub with your mates and think about what's in their pants or what they do in the bedroom - so why does it matter?

Also, you're generalising and associating all trans people with radicals on Tumblr, which isn't relevant. All movements have extremists.

 

[nodnarbusn]

If you don't mind having a dick or a vagina then why should you pay 25k to change it? Not like they're going to shove it in your face. You don't sit at the pub with your mates and think about what's in their pants or what they do in the bedroom - so why does it matter?

Also, you're generalising and associating all trans people with radicals on Tumblr, which isn't relevant. All movements have extremists.

You are twisting my words to suit you. I have explicitly said I do not care who wears a dress or what they do in the bedroom, but I am not going to call a man in a dress maam. I will not call a woman dressed as a man sir.

This is not kids playing house, I'm not pretending for these people. I do not care what they "identify" as because they ARE male or female . End of story . This isnt judgment this isnt discrimination its merely fact.

 

What I mean is, you don't know what's between their legs.

Hormone replacement therapy makes it next-to-impossible to know what's in their pants; so why concern yourself with what is?

 

Most refuse to change their gender on their BC? Where is your source? Every trans person I know has changed their BC gender and that's one of the things they're desperate to happen to make it official.
If you think people would go to the trouble of HRT, surgery and outing themselves just to exploit the environment, that's ridiculous.

Where did I say they turned trans to exploit different opportunities?

How many transgendered people do you know? The procedure to change your gender on your birth certificate is not easy, and they don't change the original.

 

At least a dozen, I've taken one of my good friends who came out as trans to various informative events. Watched and conversed with various people on line to help my friend in his transition.

It isn't easy, I don't deny that. But it is something most trans people aim to do - whereas you said most of them don't as though you were saying they deliberately didn't change it. That's just how I took your post from reading it.

 

[Kyokushin]

I personally agree with one statement in the OP

"I personally think that whatever organs you're born with dictates your sex, but not necessarily your gender."

All in All after reading through most of the comment's here since I'm personally not to familiar with this topic, i do agree with most of Roary's statements.

 

[Xier0]

Gender is a choice, sex is not. You are born with a sex and not a gender. Gender is a socially constructed form of being "male" or "female" opposed to a biological one. Look up the definition of gender.

What I said before is that the concept of "Gender" being different from "Sex" is ridiculous. People can't claim to be "socially constructed" as male, and be biologically female, or vice versa. Someone just saying "I was born male, but I'm socially a female now" doesn't change the fact that every cell in their body is a human male cell.

You're using a small minority of a social networking site to discredit any for arguments because you do not like them? There are a lot of fair, balanced and rational people out there who want equality and nothing more. Stereotyping a movement only intensifies the issue.

I didn't list "because I don't like them" as a reason to discredit their arguments. I know that there are a lot of fair, balanced, and rational people on both sides of every political/social controversy, not everyone who is anti LGBTXYZ or whatever is a psycho from Westboro, and not everyone who is a supporter of LGBT wears only a rainbow thong everywhere they go.

People who are say, male to female transgenders aren't gay, though. Their gender is female, while their physical sex organs may be male. They can then have that reassigned if they wish to live fully as female. That's not affecting your life in any way; so why should you make ignorant comments?

It absolutely can affect my life in a LOT of ways. Refer to Ghast's post:

You can easily exploit the environment around you with multiple gender identities.

Being arrested
Going to public restrooms
Suing others for discrimination

If someone identifies their "gender" as being a dog. Am I a bigot and discriminating against them if I don't let them smell my ass and take a shit in the park in broad daylight in front of children, like dogs do?

 

Gender is male or female, not another species. Your gender cant be dog. You could identify your species as dog all you want but it isn't a legally backed change or medical process.

How does someone being trans affect your life? It's just a person.

 

It's becoming a lifestyle of choice. It's not necessary to undergo surgery or change your gender. Why do people do it? Self satisfaction. With many lifestyles, it's picked up by others to be one and the same, not one of a kind. It will continue to spread. That is my only problem with trans.