There are only two sexes - change my view

As the title states, I firmly believe there are only two sexes in which we as people need to recognize as a society.
Now here are some things to note before you dive into the argument:

• I am for same sex marriage
• I have no issues with LGBT
• This isn’t about transgender-ism

I have no issues with people having a specific way of living their life.
(Ie: If you are a woman and wish to be a man, or if you’re a man and wish to become a woman, that’s good for you and I support you in this.
Also I support you in deciding who you wish to love/be with)

The problem or issue I have with the gender neutrality movement is with someone being able to identify as something that doesn’t currently exist, and then demanding we as a society have to recognize and announce you as such.
On a stance of biology, there has always been Male & Female.

The Problem:

The gender neutrality movement is after government officials, language, policies & our social institutions to not classify anyone with a specific gender, regardless of their biological sex, without first asking them what pronoun they wish to be called.
To NOT do so is now considered to be an act of violence.
In many circumstances, these gender neutrality crusaders claim that you can’t possibly know the exact amount of sexes/ gender’s there are in the world, as each person identifies with different pronouns.

The challenge I see with this is we as people, have come an extremely long way since 1873, when British rule in America was reformed, making being gay, no longer a capital offense (Death penalty)
& Bold strides have been made from things like The Civil Rights Movement & the Women’s Right’s Movement, all to protect the rights of our people.
Obviously there has been countless crimes against the LBGT community, & it hasn’t been long since the 2009
Hate crime prevention & Bill were passed, but these are certainly improvements in our system.

With that being said, calling someone a “Faggot” “Nigger” etc is what directly falls under a hate crime, as these are sexually and rascially charged up terms.
Now, specifically looking at a sexual slur; this comes into play based off of someone’s choice of sexuality / belief of gender.
As previously stated, there is a synonymous belief within the gender-neutral believers of the LBGT community, where they claim that there can be an infinite amount of ways to identify/classify your gender.
If that’s the case, & these people can identify with anything they want to identify with, how can we determine what is and isn’t a hate crime?
If we no longer, as a society, are able to classify people based off of their biological composition, how exactly can we have a rule that’s predicated off of people’s sexuality and or race?

Once again, I am not against the LBGT community, I am not against people being trans or choosing a different lifestyle for themselves, as the social norm, doesn’t always need to be the norm, nor does the norm mean correctness.
However; it seems like this is a dangerous standard for us to place upon a society, when it has little boundaries or guidelines for us to follow except for:

“Ask people what they identify as”

 

Biologically there are two genders, with the exception of Hermaphrodites. Gender is not a social or political construct, regardless of your culture, morals, opinions or values you cannot change something which is biologically determined from day one. Getting onto the business of pronouns and all of that malarkey, it is just plain stupid and should not be given any attention.

Just wanted to voice my mind on the matter, interesting post.

 

Of course there are only two sexes.

There are multiple genders.

 

Boom!
Thanks for you opinion and input brother, it’s valued.

This is where it gets convoluted, as these two things are synonymous.
So tell me your views

 

Ever heard of etymology? Definition of words change. 'Gender' in its modern context refers to the differences typically associated with each sex.

Even Merriam-Webster notes 'gender' as used to differentiate biological and behavioral/psychological traits.

My view is that your view is a result of being afraid or disgusted of things you don't understand. You're intolerant of trans people expressing themselves in the way of their gender because it's different.

It's literally the same thing as the fight for gay people to be open about their sexuality; people told them they can't be gay, it's unnatural, etc. etc. In time, people like you will come to terms with reality, or you'll die off, as did people who opposed the abolishment of slavery, the civil rights movement, etc.

Every movement for equal treatment has been met with people like you.

Hell, I know for a fact you don't know what the hell you're talking about because you're equating gender with pronouns. They aren't the same thing. Gender and pronouns *can* be the same thing. They can also be entirely unrelated. Gender and the current identity movement is complex. People can identify as a binary gender (Male, Female), or somewhere in between that, or something completely different, or they can identify with no gender at all, for various reasons, and regardless if you tell them that their genders dont exist, you don't get to say that, because their existence hinges on the fact that those people say that they do, because thats how psychological attributes work.

 

Interesting point made, as pronoun isn’t even my wording, it’s that of the LGBT.
It’s literally the word that is tossed around by those in the fight for gender neutrality.
It is however; correct grammar.
So please fill me in on what incorrect grammar you’d prefer I use so I can “know what the hell” I’m talking about.

Maybe I didn’t explain my disposition thouroughly, I am not opposed to a different classification, but this “undetermined” model that the LGBT community is taking is what is troubling.

If, as it’s an act of violence, as it’s been stated by many others touting this rhetoric, to announce/call you by the
“pro-nouned, Non-Pro-nouned, Bi-nary, Non-Binary, complex something in between” that you don’t identify with, how can we prevent head hate crimes?
How can we determine who uses what restroom?
How can we have national sensuses & collect important data?

If we came up with a model, something used to classify/differentiate from, then I’m ALL for it.
(Ie: Male, Female, K, J, X, Zebra, etc etc)
A society can’t have an efficient govnerment when it can’t classify its citizens due to this “complex” issue that is “gender” (which I will note, should NOT be a complex issue.)

How can something be, yet not be?
As you noted in your very contradicting point.
The entire premise of this arguement is a logical fallacy, and makes little to no sense.
I’m sorry, I’m not trying to be rude, I just feel as if the ground work from the view point you have made, has no merit or rationale.

And I have no idea what you’re referring to when saying someone’s existence hindges on someone being able to say they do.

 

In my opinion Gender/sex are decided biologically and you can't change them. You can act different, you can want to be treated different, but at the core you're just a different person if that makes sense?

Sometimes Irl I can act girly and I'm usually fruity irl, but i'm not a girl, nor gay whatsoever, I'm just me as a person. In my opinion, thinking you're a different gender is (in most cases) is just wrong. Although if you go through surgery and stuff like that, I'll accept it I guess.

 

Nobody said anything about grammar. You equating two different terms has nothing to do with grammar.

What does that mean?

Right, if you decide to base your opinion on what some random dumbass on tumblr says, you're retarded.

People do not propose it is a hate crime to mis-gender someone, even the most extreme people I've heard on the issue suggest that it be a hate-crime to *purposefully* misgender someone when you are aware of their gender identity.

Trans people already go into what bathroom they want. Many trans people are convincing in appearance.

This argument pisses me off because it doesn't even matter what bathroom people go into. People that argue this point typically say that a man could sneak into the womans restroom and try and rape a girl or something; but they fail to mention the largest victims of adult-on-child sex violence are little boys. So, until you start advocating for separate bathrooms for Catholic priests, I don't want to fucking hear it.

Remember how I told you that biological sex and gender identity are different?

I'll let you in on a secret.

Government forms ask for biological sex.

 

Working currently, but I will reply to you, this evening.

 

Just a note on the bathroom /dilemma/: I guarantee that you've shit next to plenty of trans men. You can't pick them out of the crowd. They're more "convincing" than people think.

 

I don't think OP was talking about transexuals who have taken all the steps and stuff', I think it was more can a person be a different gender/sex then male or female.

 

Yeah, as Choccy stated, trans is the dilemma.
It’s the non gender classification & also the total absence of classification in certain instances.
I have no problem with trans people, as they are picking one side of the fence.

 

Gender isn't a meaningful classification. You can't look at someone and tell their gender identity.

Sex is a relevant and meaningful classification.

There is no issue with gender classification in the first place because gender isn't a relevant classification for anything.

 

I DON'T have an issue with a new classification, whatever name or names that come to fruition.
The challenge is we are being told that there can be "unclassified" genders.
And to note, "Unclassified" isnt the classifcation for it either, nor are we allowed to classify it as such.
So someone is able to be unclassified and its hate speech to address them improperly.

#1:
It's baffling how little you truly know about the subject yet you're flying this flag like a gender-martyr. Just so you have some facts to go off of, instead of emotional rhetoric, it IS already a act of violence / hate crime to misgender someone.

• December 2017, Vernon Mussington was arrested for misgendering another individual
• Aug 2017, a FIRST GRADER was sent to the principal's office for calling a kid she knew in Kindergarden, by his Male name, unaware he now identified as a Female. Not even misgendered, just simply called this child by the name in which she knew him of the previous year. The parent's were not notified in advance to prep the child (and other children in the class) about the newly gendered child.
• House Bill C-16 is now affect in Canada, making mis-gendering a hate crime

This list goes on and on including other things like a 250K fine in NY for misgendering, & jail time and fines in CA for the same offense.

#2 You sound terrible by calling me retarded for making an accusation that you were false about, as I don't use Tumbler, and you didn't fact check at all.
I will also note, I think it's interesting you're able to slur around the word "Retard" when you have a strong belief of misgendering, which is something that someone can choose - yet it's okay to use the word retard in a demeaning way, which just so you are aware
(You like how I threw in the same condescending tones you use in your weak arguments? IE: "Remember how I told you that biological sex and gender identity are different?")
Retardation UNLIKE gender, is not something that other's can choose. So nice double standard there bud.

Read above post, because you my friend, are 100% wrong.

Great, well structured argument.
Here's the problem, I'm not referring to trans people using restrooms and or these people being able to use a restroom they feel is gender specific OR that the trans people are sexual predators.
What IS concerning, is sexual predators, PRETENDING to be trans people in order to exploit that facet of the law.
Sure, it's not a extremely high concern as we don't see this often, but there still need's to be a standard set for different types of people to use different restrooms.
I am FINE with:

Male
Female
Non-Binary/Other
However; once again, the proposed above is FAR TO GENERAL for the LGBT community, as there are TOO MANY genders, some that which can never be explained or listed as we as a society aren't able to know or dictate how many genders there are.


ALSO
Just so you are aware.
Gender was biology, therefore gender and sex were synonymous, this wasn't up until 1948, when "Gender Theory" actually started with Simone de Beauvoir, and others like Judith Butler. (I would assume you know these people, but then again, assuming gender's is wrong, so maybe assuming your knowledge of your belief, is also wrong)
Prior to this, Gender was a grammatical issue, usually referred to as a noun.
This is a VERY new concept which is not rooted in any biological precedent, to say that there are "Unlimited" Genders.
So that's the issue, when you are jailing people for not using a term that is an extremely new belief or standard, which is just barely 70 years old and that we really haven't defined, I see this as a flaw in the system.

 

I've never heard of anyone claim an "unclassified" gender and I have extensive experience in the SJW community. Sounds like a load of made-up bullshit.

Vernon Mussington was arrested for calling the plaintiff a fa**** and because making derogatory statements toward another person is a misdemeanor offense in the specific part of the UK this took place in.

I had to google this. Some funny stuff you left out:
*Child was not disciplined
*The trans child in question was re-introduced to the class with her new name and was introduced as a girl
*The trip to the principals office was merely to investigate to ensure it wasnt intentional and a case of bullying

House Bill C-16 simply adds Gender identity as a protected class in the Canadian Human Rights Act, stop fucking lying to me.

You haven't provided any evidence that I am wrong. Your evidence is shit and so is your debating.

We also used to think the earth was the center of the universe and the planets were deities. Academic knowledge on most subjects has changed since 1948. Completely irrelevant.

So? The whole point of gender is that it isn't rooted in any biological precedent. It's psychological. That's the whole fucking point of this concept.

We deal with tons of shit that isn't natural and isn't rooted in biology on a daily basis.

 

I just died at the fact that you shot down literally everything I said.
You're a pro debater.
Thanks for changing my mind buddy/gal/bro/he/her/zi/zer/john/cat/dog.

 

There are two sexes, gender is a cultural construct so it falls under the 'you do you, I don't give a fuck' category. 10 years ago this thread would have been about homosexuals. 50 years ago it could have been about interracial marriage. Last year it was about pineapple on pizza. In 2022 it might be about Sythe.org virgin rights, and I'll support every last spam forum user here.

We'll learn to stop being dumbasses soon enough.

 

My problem is when people in the LGBT community get belligerent with others thatre just doing the best they can with what they're given and never intend to offend anyone.

I find too many of these people online, in the news, and in my life. I'm just doing me and love for everyone to do them, but then I'm attacked, shamed, and ridiculed when I make a slight misstep or anything that doesn't conform to someone's specific idea of things.

Basically I think it's wrong to invent new things and ridicule people for not being aware of them or how to appropriately respond to them. And this is something I see rampant, people being accused of hate and whatnot when they really just don't know what the appropriate response to what theyre given is according to this minority group calling them haters.

 

Very well spoken and conveyed.
This is exactly the issue with the topic, holding people accountable for hate speech when they are going by the social norm that we have instilled for centuries.

 

Yeah I don't find it fair at all. Inform people that you go by a different standard than they're used to, but definitely don't attack and shame them when it's not their fault you decided you identify as a "x" and expected to be treated "y" way. How is anyone supposed to know that without prior knowledge of it? Even if they do know beforehand, everyone is so used to talking to "normal" people in the "normal" way, that it's hard to always remember to filter yourself for someones special needs. They have no patience for us and yet expect us to have every bit of patience for them. It a double-standard and hypocritical standpoint that I see many of them taking and that's why my strategy is just to avoid them because "victims" in todays society are always right.