Feminism

[DinaH]

Where the fk did I say that men are better than women? Start using your brain and stop putting words in my mouth. Does being able to give birth make women better than men or does being able to produce sperm make men better then women? All I said was that men are not equal to women, because if they were then we would all be men or women.

How would equality suddenly change someone's sex, sorry? What are you actually attempting to state in relation to human biology and equality when you state #we would all be men or women'.

 

[DinaH]

I admit having the urge to smack some sense into you but since that doesn't really work then I will just try to ignore your stupidity.

And now you're threatening violence because I want to live in a world of equality and opportunity? You wonder why women don't feel safe?

 

[Logic]

What the hell? Are you even reading what you're saying? They should not feel obligated to give away their child because it would be harder to raise. That is ludacris.

Im done with you.

Do you even remember where this all got started? It was about women having the option to opt out from raising the child and having to support it financialy. While for men there is no such option if the woman wants you to pay then you will have to pay.

 

[Logic]

And now you're threatening violence because I want to live in a world of equality and opportunity? You wonder why women don't feel safe?

Please for the sake of my sanity tell me you are are trolling.

 

[DinaH]

Please for the sake of my sanity tell me you are are trolling.

You said you wanted to attack me because I believe women are treated unfairly in our society and want equality and you don't? Your attitude alone scares me. I worry about the safety of your partner :/

 

Do you even remember where this all got started? It was about women having the option to opt out from raising the child and having to support it financialy. While for men there is no such option if the woman wants you to pay then you will have to pay.

Your attitude is atrocious. You're treating life as if it's some handkerchief. You're blinded by your own beliefs, and fail to compromise with rational responses. You can continue to twist words in attempt to push your argument. Just know it doesn't help if you're not being reasonable.

 

[Logic]

Your attitude is atrocious. You're treating life as if it's some handkerchief. You're blinded by your own beliefs, and fail to compromise with rational responses. You can continue to twist words in attempt to push your argument. Just know it doesn't help if you're not being reasonable.

Air, air, air and more air. Make a solid argument why I am wrong and you are right. This "You are blablabla" isn't helping your case.

 

[DinaH]

Air, air, air and more air. Make a solid argument why I am wrong and you are right. This "You are blablabla" isn't helping your case.

You haven't responded to all the statistics I posted proving women are discriminated against.

 

Air, air, air and more air. Make a solid argument why I am wrong and you are right. This "You are blablabla" isn't helping your case.

You're the only one on this thread who fails to acknowledge the inequality amongst sexes. That alone proves your inability to compromise.

 

[Logic]

You haven't responded to all the statistics I posted proving women are discriminated against.

I will not comment on that trash, because it would be a waste of time. Go out, live and then tell me that the world is so unfair. All you are doing atm is using false facts to proove something you have never even experienced yourself. Noone will pay a woman less for the same work. If he did then he would be sued. That's the real life.

 

[DinaH]

I will not comment on that trash, because it would be a waste of time. Go out, live and then tell me that the world is so unfair. All you are doing atm is using false facts to proove something you have never even experienced yourself. Noone will pay a woman less for the same work. If he did then he would be sued. That's the real life.

The facts are provided by the UK government? How are you more knowledgeable than them? How can you dispute them? I do live in this world surprisingly, and I do feel discrimination. In this thread alone you have 'Called me unequal due to my lesser strength' and disclosed your desire to physically assault me. Now you claim to be more authoritative than the UK government in it's providing of facts regarding the UK population. Please, enlighten us all, oh great one.

Please ewad this: http://www.nwlc.org/resource/fair-pay-women-requires-increasing-minimum-wage-and-tipped-minimum-wage

And oh look, the White House also agrees and provides evidence that women are paid far less than men: http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

Good thing user above knows more than the UK and US government and can refute their facts and evidence as trash! Quality debating.

 

[Logic]

You're the only one on this thread who fails to acknowledge the inequality amongst sexes. That alone proves your inability to compromise.

I have not said anything of such sort. If you look at the legal system then you can see how women get lighter sentences for the same crime. It's actualy quite common for a homicide to be rules self-defence if you are a woman. In the legal system being a woman > being a man and that's a fact which any lawyer will confirm and I have asked quite a few since my close friend is a lawyer.

 

[Logic]

The facts are provided by the UK government? How are you more knowledgeable than them? How can you dispute them? I do live in this world surprisingly, and I do feel discrimination. In this thread alone you have 'Called me unequal due to my lesser strength' and disclosed your desire to physically assault me. Now you claim to be more authoritative than the UK government in it's providing of facts regarding the UK population. Please, enlighten us all, oh great one.

Please ewad this: http://www.nwlc.org/resource/fair-pay-women-requires-increasing-minimum-wage-and-tipped-minimum-wage

I study mathematical statistics and I can confirm that noone has ever been able to proove that women get paid less for the same job, noone ever! If you are going to compair a supermarket clerk to an oil driller then guess what the salaries won't match.

 

[DinaH]

I have not said anything of such sort. If you look at the legal system then you can see how women get lighter sentences for the same crime. It's actualy quite common for a homicide to be rules self-defence if you are a woman. In the legal system being a woman > being a man and that's a fact which any lawyer will confirm and I have asked quite a few since my close friend is a lawyer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/29/women-crime-vicky-pryce_n_4685494.html

Read this article for an opposing opinion if you can bear to handle one, don't threaten to attack the writer though please. Oh, and so now that you know both the white house and parliament acknowledge women are discriminated against when it comes to pay, will you admit it to be true?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

Your government seems to confirm that women are paid less than men.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/29/women-crime-vicky-pryce_n_4685494.html

Read this article for an opposing opinion if you can bear to handle one, don't threaten to attack the writer though please. Oh, and so now that you know both the white house and parliament acknowledge women are discriminated against when it comes to pay, will you admit it to be true?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

http://www.whitehouse.gov/equal-pay/career

Your government seems to confirm that women are paid less than men.

Karlrais is a known troll when it comes to debating. I wouldn't give him too much facts, he might overload, and change the topic. Not worth your time.

 

Because you state the law is benefiting women when this is so untrue it's unbelievable.

Five legal rights that women have that men don't:
http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/08/5-legal-rights-women-have-that-men-dont/
"1. Women have the right to genital integrity
2. Women have the right to vote without agreeing to die
3. Women have the right to choose parenthood
4. Women have the right to be assumed caregivers for children
5. Women have the right to call unwanted, coerced sex rape"

There are more.

Let's take the UK as an example, as it's where I reside. Women are oppressed in our society because in so many differing areas and sectors, they still find themselves deeply behind men in terms of rights and privelages. Some examples include:

In the UK as an example, 78% of people who seek help following forced marriages are women and girls,

Forced marriage is illegal in the UK.

Almost 1/3 girls have experienced unwanted sexual touching in schools (YouGov Ltd (2010) End Violence Against Women Poll Results. Available at http://www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/preventing-violence-against-women),

Not an issue of law. Sex with minors is illegal irrespective of age. Also I note you didn't even bother to look up the statistics for men, but you will find a similar percentage for boys.

36% of people still even today believe a women is partially responsible for sexual abuse done to her (Home Office (2009) Violence against women opinion polling. Available at http://www.huiselijkgeweld.nl/doc/english/violence-against-women-poll_2009.pdf),

That's because women select who they go out with not visa versa. If you go out with a scumbag and he sticks his hand up your dress then boo wendy. Try someone who's not a scumbag.

Only 77% of young men agree that having sex with someone who said no is rape when it should be 100%. Having sex with someone who doesnt consent is rape. Rape is rape.

Rape is coerced sex. If the woman is free to leave at any time then it is not rape. The elements of criminal rape usually require force and resistance (exception would be where the man or woman is passed out.)

Women still get paid between 10-35% less than men (EHRC (2011) Gender pay gaps , p3. )

MARRIED women are paid less than men. Unmarried women are paid approximately the same amount. If you have to pick up kids from school and are constantly late and distracted then economically speaking you are less productive. The pay gap is a function of basic economics.

Imagine for example you were rallying for drug-addict's rights and you pointed out that drug addicts are paid 70% less on average than non-drug addicted persons. Did you ever stop to wonder why this might be?

It is estimated that each year a mother is absent from her workplace due to being pregnant, her wages will decrease by 5% (‘Motherhood ‘devastates’ women’s pay, research finds’, The Guardian. Available at http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jul/10/mothers-wages-fawcett-society),

See above.

Men make up only 17% board directors of FTSE 100 companies,

Presumably you mean women. Again this is based in biological fact. To get to the top of the economic hierarchy require the taking of risks, which men, having testosterone and something to gain by taking risks, do.

Approximately 70% of people in national minimum wage jobs are women,

Due to working unskilled parttime jobs so they can look after children.

Only 1/4 MP's are women,

Only 24% of news articles on globals news channels are female orientated, or centered around females not men,

Up to 30,000 women in the UK alone are sacked each year simply for being pregnant (Equal Opportunities Commission (2005) Greater Expectations: Final Report of EOC investigation into discrimination against new and expectant mothers in the workplace).

All these stats relate to the UK, but I can guarentee you you will find mirroring issues in the US, if not a worse situation. I believe the pay gap in the US is way worse than in Britain.

All of these stats have nothing to do with equality before the law. Women have more rights than men before the law.

I'm not even going to get into how and why you believe denying half of the population their right to legal participation and representation 'Benefits' them because that is truly bullshit. Women were denied the vote as a way of systematically oppressing them and ensuring they couldn't challenge the huge inequalities in society they faced.

Define "systematic oppression" and explain how you are subject to it any more than men are.

 

[Logic]

^I applaude you for depunking that trash, should have done it myself but after reading her posts I lost all hope that she would even care.

I guess I was a bit too aggressive but it was 5 in the morning and I kinda snapped after she tried to use those "facts" to proove something. Should have thought about others readers and not about that 1 radical feminazi who likely doesn't care about real facts but only for the ones that serve her intrests.

 

Five legal rights that women have that men don't:
http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/08/5-legal-rights-women-have-that-men-dont/
"1. Women have the right to genital integrity
2. Women have the right to vote without agreeing to die
3. Women have the right to choose parenthood
4. Women have the right to be assumed caregivers for children
5. Women have the right to call unwanted, coerced sex rape"

There are more.

I can't fully give a descriptive refute at this point in time being that I am on my phone, but I'll argue about the 5 rights you give.

1. I'm not sure what you specifically mean about that, but I'm guessing it's about genital mutilation. The act isn't done solely for aesthetics, it's a preventative measure for diseases. The female genitalia isn't at high risks of that as a male, which is why the act isn't approved of by the general public.

2. So do men.

3. Men do too, it's just not as easy as it is for a female. We're suppose to have sex with the intent of procreation.

4. It's like this for other animals. The father mates, and leaves, while the mother stays until the offspring is at an appropriate age in which it is able to fend for itself.

5. Coerced, coincides with preventive force.

 

[zorro_]

I think it was Richard who posted that women were more protected by the law by not having the right to vote. By getting the right to vote they could also be drafted to go to war. I'll leave it for you to decided if that's a good outcome or not.

No, you're missing the point. I am not referring to the desirability of the right to vote as regards its various effects, and instead am looking at the right itself.

Also just to note, even if the women were being protected under the law and excepted from voting (plus conscription) it would still be considered an unequal status.

 

Feminism is often a taboo term. People are ashamed to say "I am a feminist" because the term has been marred by extreme-faminazi's who hate men and think women are more entitled than men, women could live without men, etcetera.

Feminism, in itself, is the desire for women to be treated equally as men in ways that they may currently not be. That is all. That is literally all. THAT'S IT. When people retort ignorantly with "men are taught gender roles they feel they must abide by, what about men" or "men are assumed to be X, Y and Z - what about men?" or "there is no such thing as women being discriminated against in this day in age" or some kind of factbook of the amount of male victims of this, that and the next - I could go on, they forget that feminism isn't something that says men don't have problems too.

In most Eastern countries, women aren't educated. In most places, women who are raped are victimised rather than sympathised with "you were asking for it", "you were wearing X and Y". In most places, women are paid less than men for the same work. In most places, women aren't welcomed in male-dominated workforces even when they have the same or better qualifications and ability. In most places, women are sexualised by men but if they sexualise themselves they're hated on and called sluts. You get the idea, it goes on.

Anti-Feminist men often reply with "so does that mean a man can hit a woman then?" That's a silencing tactic. So that women think the only way they'll change this patriarchy we live in, is by being beaten. Some Anti-Feminist men reply with paragraphs about male victims - if men really cared about male victims they'd campaign for them not only as a reply to a feminist.
Luckily most Anti-Feminist people are that, anti-feminist, not anti-feminism. Mostly because the majority of the feminism they've come in to contact with is the extremist sort, the bad sort that is contradictory of the feminist purpose.

Kinda going off track here.. feminism is not anti-men or ignoring the fact that men have gender-related problems as well. IT ISN'T. That's a literal fact. Yes, it'd make more sense to just have an equality movement rather than women's and men's rights - it's just come this way.



@Sythe - gender is a social construct. That's a literal fact.

the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

Biological sex and gender are two different things. You can be biologically male and your gender can be female at the same time - it's a scientifically backed mental-health condition called gender dysphoria, and it is a thing. Just wanted to clear that up.