[DENIED] Lets start using the Vouch forum properly and stop the bumping loophole?

Note: I will not personally vote in the poll as this is my suggestion, and it would be biased for me to do so. Also note that not all users who have supported/not supported have actually voted.

My proposal:

No longer allow vouches to be posted on runescape gold topics as a clear loophole in relation to the 8-hour bump rule, and have merchants actually use the vouch section as it is designed for.

And/or: incorporate @FlyingToast 's idea on this suggestion topic. I would place bets that merchants would suddenly stop having so many vouches posted every 30 mins to an hour

The Issues:

- The vouch forum may as well be archived if people are just having vouches posted as replies on their topics.

- Many gold sellers are requesting vouches on their topics as a clear loophole of the 8-hour bump rule.

- Sure, an occasional vouch on the topic wouldn't cause too much harm. However having the thread bumped with vouches every hour is not fair.

- Having customers from offsite sign up to post a vouch on the gold thread should not be considered any different than using offsite vouches in a thread title. It is offsite traffic and customers, thus it in most cases is indisputable as market manipulation through inflating vouch count and a way around the 8-hour bump rule.

- If this truly is a free market, then such monopolization should not be allowed.

- Most buyers/sellers aren't going to click through pages of results in a section. Especially when it's just a confusing wall of text. They are going to click through the first half of page 1 topics. Should this be the case then the continuous bumping of topics via vouch replies is market manipulation. The same names being constantly at the top of page 1 works great for branding, and the majority of Sythe traffic will just return to those and never do business with any of the competitors.


- Some sellers are even bribing both onsite and offsite traffic and customers with coupons, gold, and bonuses for posting a vouch. This is nothing more than manipulation and is not just a friendly gesture.
Examples of this:

Here we see the automated live chat message bribing website visitors with free gold for posting a vouch. This was seconds after I visited the website. It was not triggered by clicking on any of the product pages therefore cannot be a promotional deal as in such instance I am nothing more than a website visitor shopping around and not necessarily looking to purchase or sell gold.



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Second example: The following page is an example of many on Arcus' gold topics. All vouches are bumping the topic sometimes as close as 30 minutes from each other. Some vouches are from traffic of the boglagold site that Arcus purchased earlier this year: ►►► 200,000+ ORDERS DELIVERED - 24/7 www.ArcusGold.com ~ COUPON CODE INSIDE [+1M Bonus FREE]! ~ ◄◄◄

Further evidence to support the vouches from bogla traffic:

Now referring back to the link to page 444 of Arcus' gold topic. "Shirley" is mentioned several times. I know the same live chat is embedded on all of his sites, so it is difficult to prove, however the above image exemplifies a newcomer account with only 1 post as a clear indication of offsite traffic being referred to sythe.org with the pure intentions of bumping the topic only.

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Example 3: PieGp

In this example there are 'vouch bumps' within minutes of each other.

►► www.PieGp.com ◄◄ ⭐ CHEAPEST RATES EVER ⭐ ◄►[SLASHED RATES] ◄►[INSTANT] ◄► [24/7 Online] ◄►

There is also a vouch that doesn't actually indicate a trade actually occured. The post is a newcomer (with no previous posts) and simply claims "Used piegp for a few years now. instant delivery 100% legit. - Construct."

Although such a comment is nice and all, a vouch of this nature should be posted on the vouch thread of the user. Not used as a bump. Especially when it is just referencing years of business and not a specific transaction completed that day.


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The above are just a few examples of clear bump manipulation. The merchants do not have a 3cm brain and simply not realize that they are having vouches bump their topic every few minutes to an hour. These guys know exactly what they are doing and are clearly referring customers to their gold topics to post a vouch. In some cases it is apparent that these merchants are sending offsite traffic to sign up on sythe.org and post a vouch.​

I have attached a poll to this so please do vote even if you do not have the time to post a detailed reply. I am interested to know what percentage of people support this. I have made the votes public to avoid voting manipulation from newcomer profiles.

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Edit: Example 4





Update: Mainly at those who haven't considered the guest traffic and how it's beneficial for the sythe community:


- Gold buyer goes to google, enters a key term

- clicks ona sythe.org link and ends up finding way on to gold section (they are not a registered user. they are guest traffic)

- They are going to convert from traffic to customer for the topics constantly bumping their topic - Because of this, people like the examples shown are using sythe.org to monopolise the guest traffic that nobody can see, and nobody even thinks about unless they know about SEO and sales funnels​

 

Support very good suggestion bigger sellers are overshadowing smaller sellers everyone deserves equality

 

I support this, but it was already denied here: Allow vouches in vouch threads only

 

I was aware of this, however hopefully I have clearly exemplified the issues here.

 

I still support this. I wish I could share the entire staff thread, but it's mainly about "free market" and about the fact that large sellers will always have an advantage over new ones. I'm afraid this will never actually be accepted by the ones who wish to see no change, but will forever be brought up by those who are seriously affected by this. One downside about this might be: more scam reports. But hey, more scam reports = a cleaner market.

 

Yeah that could be an unfortunate result, but a lot of people when trading gold sites and users with a smaller number of vouches will start off trading small amounts with them. Smaller amounts still means more business for smaller merchants and gives them the opportunity to grow. Such growth and increased competition is healthy for the market as it forces all merchanrs, small or large, to contribute to the market in ways they have not done before. It supports further innovation.

Thank you for your thoughts

 

Half of the sythe staff are gold site workers who wouldn't support this as it negatively affects their business. Support from me

 

No support.

It's a simple business and marketing tactic. It's similar to having people IRL joining a gym, and receiving a 5% discount for referring friends, and or, similar to sharing products on facebook/other social media platforms for discounted rates.

Ultimately, if a transaction actually takes place, a vouch is fair game. Offering said users a discount is just an incentivisor to post a vouch. No one is being forced.

 

From that point of view it would negatively effect mine if I didn't have peopel vouch on my vouch topic (which it is designed for). I could also get all of my offsite traffic to register and vouch.

I just think it is wrong and should be changed

 

It is very different from commission selling. The examples are not offering 5% to people for referring a friend. They are buying bumps from offsite traffic.

Nobody is being forced, they are being bribed.

I don't understand why this is allowed but bragging about offsite vouches in your thread title is not allowed. Oh wait.. maybe it's because bribing offsite traffic to register on sythe increases sythe's user base? However this does not benefit sythe.org as most of these profiles are not active users.

The main issue I have is that this is clearly being used to bypass the 8-hour bump rule.

 

"Free Market" isn't defined as a market where people have to vouch in a specific spot lol, it is defined as a line to where the market is open for users to use without restriction, someones verification of trade has nothing to do with where they are in the market.

Following incentives to receive free bumps is retarded, it literally just makes it a non-competitive market. You are monopolizing the market by allowing people to bump threads that shouldn't be posted on for the purpose of receiving a vouch, VOUCH FORUM is for vouches, not people's selling or buying threads.

Wortel supports this and in the past has been in the gold site working community, he at least understands the fact that the community doesn't benefit from this, only large companies.

Your last line, thank you for actually understanding this, in my sythe rules update I mentioned that this should be strict besides people accidentally bumping, so please change this. You shouldn't gain posts on your buying/selling threads for completing a sale.

 

No support. Main reason being it will show potential customers succesful transactions that have been made on the same day, making it easier for them to find a suitable seller that fits their needs.

 

You can't implicitly assume that vouches are only to be posted within the vouch forum. The vouch forum, historically, has been a method of collation, not of presentation as such.

Secondly, if you honestly think that incentivising vouches actually monopolises the market, then you're heavily misinformed. The market giants are always going to have a monopoly on the market. It's far too saturated to be any other way, especially after a decade of said giants being in the business. Regardless of this rule being implemented or not. To me, and I'm sure many others, this rule just seems tedious to actually carry out in practice, and is a waste of staff's time.

Lastly, are you suggesting that vouches must only be posted within said vouch forum, or are you suggesting that vouches coming from a root of incentives be disallowed anywhere, aside the vouch forum?

It can be seen both ways. You can't assume it's a bribe, it's a grey area.

What? I don't think you even understand what you wrote here. You're stating that offsite vouches within titles is NOT allowed, but then your following comment is one in support of why it looks to be allowed?

There's a myriad of other ways to bypass the rule.

Constant market intervention, increased barriers to entry, and constant policing of the forum is not healthy. There's a difference when someone is blatantly breaking the rules, and when someone may be using unethical means to attain a market advantage.

 

I'm saying that by allowing users to vouch on buying/selling threads they are giving the larger companies a higher chance of receiving customers due to the fact that their thread will likely be near or at the top of the section, almost always. And I'm saying that vouches should only be posted in the vouch forum, I don't care if people pay for vouches, good for you.

 

"this is allowed" referred to the spammy newcomer profile vouch bumps. Which is allowed.

It can be assumed a bribe if the merchant is openly advertising that they are paying x amount of gold for a vouch, or giving x amount in bonus. Manipulating a customer to do something in exchange for a bonus or monetary gain (including game currency) is a definition of a bribe.

I appreciate your point of view but unless I have not been clear enough, I don't see how mine can be contested beyond a simple "no support" in relation to your own beliefs.

 

Yes, thanks, I understand what posting on a thread does.

Having vouches constricted to only the vouch forum is extremely impractical, and redundant at this stage - due to the age of this website, and the longevity of certain businesses.

Half the larger traders don't even bother with amassing more vouches on their actual vouch threads, because A) They have so many businesses running, with different threads, it becomes extremely inefficient to not have vouches relative to said business posted on said thread. Customers want to see feedback relative to what their transaction is about, not something else completely irrelevant. B) Why not use vouches to your advantage if your business is successful.

 

It would be nice if bumps were restricted to using the 'bump' button. This way users can vouch wherever they'd like, and gold sites can boast larger more active threads = more successful without continuously being up at the top from customer posts. I've seen this done on other forums that I've used in the past and I've always been a big fan of the system.

 

Thank you such a great idea, I didn't consider this . I think that would be a great solution. I have witnessed this on other markets too. I don't know how easy it would be to implement though

 

Okay, so, what if the wording by these gold sites/traders is changed to, 'we may offer you discounted rates for any feedback you wish to post, if so, please post said feedback here'. This is not a bribe. It can be interpreted as one, but it's not explicitly one.

If you're suggesting that direct bribes be disallowed, sure, but it's easy enough to word it so that it's not directly insinuating that.

 

Are you saying the bump button makes the thread actually bumped to users? So posting on a thread normally doesn't actually move it up?