[APPROVED] OMM Rank Update

[killerbee]

I think the problem with OMM is that they are "official", which indicates that they are backed by the site (they are but only through a vetting process), but after the stringent application process, they are held to the same standard as others. If a group of people are really "official", the site should provide some kind of guarantee against them. I like @tMoon idea that OMM would have a guarantee from the site for payback should something go wrong.

I don't mean to make this about Azie but he is clearly exit scamming despite being an OMM and I'll explain why this is a problem and how it got there.

The way that online sales like those of Sythe work is that there has to be a trusted party. If it's a direct buyer to seller sale, then generally the more "trusted" party goes second, as they can be relied on more. If there is an MM involved, the MM is the trusted party, and has the rep. Either way, there's a "trusted" party somewhere in the process.

Most of the problems with this process in general online come from the fact that one of those formerly trusted parties decides they no longer care about selling/buying online, they can't do it anymore, their life changed and they don't have time anymore, etc. so they exploit their status. Trustworthiness only works for the past, not the future. There is no guarantee that a trusted individual will continue to be trusted, which is the problem.

The problem with OMM is that they are vetted, but as far as I know they aren't continually verified. So, I think Azie moved and got a job or got married or whatever, and since he wasn't continually vetted, nobody picked up on the potential that he would exploit his rank. I was worried about this possibility because he became extremely unresponsive over the last few months, so I moved all my GP off the account he sold me months ago.

The point is, if OMM aren't going to have some kind of "official" backing besides vetting when they got accepted, they shouldn't be "official". If the site is going to make a guarantee like that, then they can be trustworthy because in the event that the OMM loses his trustworthiness, the site can step in as a trustworthy 3rd party, and effectively you get the trust sum of the OMM + the site, which I think would be a good system.

 

If it's not insured by anything it's weird to call it official (same as the SVU rank from back in the day)
There is no need for official middlemen, however adding more indicators as to how to measure trust might be OK (ranks for trustworthy people without them being official)
Sythe should look at some examples from other forums and copy some of their features. Times are changing and Sythe hasn't changed in years, this project is still profitable for @Sythe so it's probably in his best interest to make it more modern (such as updating ranks!)

 

Having personally posted my Full application back in december, I honestly don't beleive the rank is TOO HARD to earn. You need to earn it, it is one of the most trustworthy rank out there afterall, ofcourse it won't be easy to obtain..?

I do understand most of the current OMM's atm are simply not around anymore. When I joined in 2018, everytime I'd ask for one I would never get a responce back so I had to go with random mm's which lead me to get imposter-scammed since the topic never mentioned anything about how to contact him and make sure I was talking with the real them + having posted all informations about our trade on his topic made anyone who had Notifications on for his topic be aware that I was about to have a trade and made me extremely vulnerable to imposters and lost 400$.

Problem atm is clearly that we do not have any active OMM's. So most people simply use high reputation members to have their trades done. I still frequently see people asking if they should ask for an OMM and my responce always been *OMM's aren't active anymore on sythe anymore I'm afraid* and this often leads people to simply sketch out and never return to sythe.

There is some decent ideas out there already out of this topic. I remember having to send my full identity to the owner of MMOExchange.net when I grabbed level 4 Verified which was basicly giving you close to full trust if you also had a great amount of feedback+Donation etc. Having a deposit could also be a thing so anyone using an OMM is 100% SAFE.

OMM always been a thing on sythe I don't know why people who don't give a **** about it are simply saying *delete it* instead of trying to help out and actually find a solution.


There simply need to be some of the staff to take a decision regarding it, grab all the best ideas on how to revamp it if its actually needed? I feel like the issue is mostly having innactive OMM's atm and possibly add reqs like Sending ID + a deposit.

Potentialy have a test done by the staff where they tests your MM skills etc aswell that's all up to them.


Deleting the rank is definitly not the solution but simply an easy answer for people who doesn't care about it at all.

 

There have been many adequate people applying recently but the applications have been looked over. For example I have had mine up since August and we are now almost in May of the next year. @Pegasus has also been up for almost as long. Recently there has been a few new people applying who definitely did achieve the stringent requirements.

I am open to new guidelines and potential new rewards as I can see the role being useful and having potential. Refer to my way earlier suggestion: Update Official Middlemen that has also been up since August but has been collecting dust for ages.

 

Anyone that goes for the OMM rank should do so with helping the community as their only goal. That being said, the only way to save this rank is to enforce OMM to do this for free.

If you want to ask money because you think your time is valuable and you can't spare an hour a day to help others, stay a regular middleman. If you find an hour a day in your life to potentially save many people hundreds of dollars, then shoot for that OMM rank.

 

[Luffy]

I'd be in favor in just removing the rank completely. From my perspective verified/official middle man were positions heavily needed when the market reopened and became massive, there were a lot of unknowns, a lot of members dwelling into RWT for the first time. We didn't have tens of members back then with 1000+ vouches so using MM was common and getting an official was just that extra layer of protection.

That is no long the case anymore, the market is smaller and now there are many established players in each subsection of the market. I'm not saying there isn't activity in the MM section, there is. I still get requests every day; however, it's not who's more trusted or "official", it's whoever's online and able to do the trade.

The only benefit of having OMM right now is that it's the only benefit/incentive aside from the fact of helping others to MM in the first place, so an alternative to this might be a minirank tied with middle mans? Maybe a tier based minirank, 100+ trades handled, etc.?

TLDR
Vote for remove, but would like something minimal added to keep new and old middle man still performing.

 

[Tyler]

Its outdated as in, it's almost impossible for anyone to obtain the rank anymore .

I'd like to disagree, it may be hard to achieve, but that's the value of it, and the value of those who have the rank. I think out of every OMM I had the hardest time getting the rank (4 applications spanning over 2 years ish).


As for the issues with inactive OMM's there are policies outlined in the OMM forum that are simply not being followed up on. This is because we place admins in the place of the HMM rank, and they are far too busy to enforce or follow up with the rules. What we need is somebody who has time to fix the system to be put in a position to fix up the system and then enforce it, It wouldn't be hard and they could request whatever they need done to an admin (rank update, removals ect.)

As for the reward not being worth it, please feel free to message any OMM and ask their opinion on that @Pirate

 

I voted to remove it, honestly it's a shit show.

I understand people are OMM and the rank is fun to have etc, but it's really not having much impact when people are just using other middlemen or even free middleman (if the "other middleman" have fees tied to them) and for those of us who don't actually have the OMM rank, when are we going to get it? 5-10-20-30 years time when the market dies all together? Please..

Bring back SVU instead.

 

I'd like to think that the OMM rank has some sentiment to it which would make it probably worth revamping, but I voted to have it removed as I think that as others have said and as @Pirate said, it is extremely hard to get the rank now, and do you strip current members of it if it is revamped? It is just easier to remove it as a lot of trades don't use MM's anyways, so you pay a premium for an outdated service which doesn't sound right to me.

 

I'd like to think that the OMM rank has some sentiment to it which would make it probably worth revamping, but I voted to have it removed as I think that as others have said and as @Pirate said, it is extremely hard to get the rank now, and do you strip current members of it if it is revamped? It is just easier to remove it as a lot of trades don't use MM's anyways, so you pay a premium for an outdated service which doesn't sound right to me.

Exactly. Pirate is right in saying it's near impossible to achieve. Far better ways to create a modern system for middlemen.

Remove all current OMM and reconstruct a new OMM team with active and trusted members

Bottom line is this ^^


Let's hope staff gets around and does it. Kick everyone off and revamp. Those that were kicked off are allowed to join the new system if they wish. Those that have been inactive and sitting on the OMM rank without using it will just not partake as OMM in new system.

Set some requirements that meet DIFFERENT categories not only set around vouches. Example - Must have XX account time, XX vouches, XX posts, and spend XX time on Sythe each week.

 

52 votes to remove
28 votes to redo/revamp
8 votes to keep OMM

Of the 8 votes to keep, I count at least a handful that are current OMMs. I wouldn't want the rank to be removed if I had OMM either, can't fault them there.

At this point, the rank appears to be most frequently used as a tool of trust and status for personal gain (account sales, gp sales, etc.) rather than to actually spend time safely MM'ing trades for folks. That is not the intended purpose of OMM.

Candidly, in all these years I've never used an OMM's services. There are simply way too many highly trusted free MM services or providers who are easier to get in contact with.

Personally, it makes no difference to me whether the role is removed, revamped, or kept. However, logically speaking, the role as it stands does not make sense. I vote to remove.

 

[Tyler]

At this point, the rank appears to be most frequently used as a tool of trust and status for personal gain (account sales, gp sales, etc.) rather than to actually spend time safely MM'ing trades for folks. That is not the intended purpose of OMM

Do you have any evidence or statistics to back up this claim?

Candidly, in all these years I've never used an OMM's services. There are simply way too many highly trusted free MM services or providers who are easier to get in contact with.

That's pure anecdotal

 

Do you have any evidence or statistics to back up this claim?

That's pure anecdotal

Not trying to single anyone out but just click any OMM thread. They all charge a premium for their "Trusted Middlemen services". Ex. Bogdan 10%, Star's 10$, Extremez 5% fee.

I think a lot of people know by now that it's an additional tool to gain GP off MMing trades or gain an en extra rank status over their peers in whatever respective section (GP/League/RSN whatever) rather than helping people out.

Obviously if you have a rank now you're going to want to keep it but a large percentage of the other Sythe members see it as either useless or a status item to gain some leverage over other traders or as a way of gaining fees from trades.

Hence why you see almost no "free OMMs"

 

Hence why you see almost no "free OMMs"

This is unfortunately true, people don’t do it to help others but to gain profit

 

@Tyler

You know.. I began to post, "Are you really going to ask me to dig up individual threads as evidence of something that is obvious.. just to be difficult?" .... but heck, why not.


The OMM role is intended to provide two Sythe users with means to a safe transaction. As Amy stated - at this point, the rank is a nice thread title line item to "one up" your competition. Every OMM uses it as leverage within their BST threads.

Spoiler: Spoiler

OMMs also charge fees. There are plenty of folks who MM for free that are as trusted and active as many of the OMMs. As such, most MM'ing is done through non-OMMs.
I just dug through Bogdan's OMM thread. He has not had anyone post requesting an MM since May 25th, 2019. Dunworry's thread has not been active since July 2019. Star has not had a request on his in 8+ months. Tmoon's is three posts long. See where I'm going with this?


Lastly - staff work tirelessly, without compensation, to provide a safe trading outlet for folks.. yet OMM's standards are different? I don't understand the logic.

The rank is no longer necessary in regards to the purpose of its design.

That's pure anecdotal

Correct. I clearly stated that the comment was based upon my experience in using MM's.

 

I feel like a lot of the positions here are

1. I'm a current OMM rank so I don't want it removed.

2. I'm aiming to be an OMM so I can charge more for my MM services or get ahead of my competition but it can be "revamped" so I can get that OMM rank.

3. People looking at it from an outside impartial perspective thinking that it's useless.

 

OMM's on this thread be like:

 

[Tyler]

I'm only going to respond to above from myself as I cant speak for other omm's.

You said:

At this point, the rank appears to be most frequently used as a tool of trust and status for personal gain (account sales, gp sales, etc.) rather than to actually spend time safely MM'ing trades for folks. That is not the intended purpose of OMM.

And then you go on to show me screenshots of threads I made between a year and three years ago, while ignoring the bumps, and vouches I have gotten from my two mm's in the last two days. Also for somebody just "using my rank for personal gain" it'd be pretty weird of me to make the literal guide on how to MM for sythe users

OMMs also charge fees.

The audacity! how dare we charge fees for a premium service that took time and effort to achieve

I just dug through Bogdan's OMM thread. He has not had anyone post requesting an MM since May 25th, 2019. Dunworry's thread has not been active since July 2019. Star has not had a request on his in 8+ months. Tmoon's is three posts long. See where I'm going with this?

so.. what your saying is activity requirements need to be upheld and maintained? perhaps if we had an active person who could do this.. perhaps call him the head middleman or something

 

At this point, the rank appears to be most frequently used as a tool of trust and status for personal gain (account sales, gp sales, etc.) rather than to actually spend time safely MM'ing trades for folks. That is not the intended purpose of OMM.

Personally, it makes no difference to me whether the role is removed, revamped, or kept. However, logically speaking, the role as it stands does not make sense. I vote to remove.

Agree with this. Maybe set a # requirement of how many middle man trades must be completed each month as a MM. Just like a cop 'has to write so many tickets per month.' And agree with the no need to use an OMM. 'Anecdotal' or not, like Tyler is saying, I agree just like dozens of others do. Aside from major noob newcomers, not many people pay these OMMs on the ridiculous fees they charge and ToS they have. More trusted non-official MM's that do it for free or much cheaper. (Ding ding ding... me. I do it for free occasionally for anyone and everyone).

You're right. Simple as this - If this whole topic wasn't a real problem and what those are saying defending the OMM is true - then this post would never have been made and there wouldn't be 80+ votes to REMOVE/REVAMP comp. to 10> to keep.

 

Thank you