[Approved] Update Official Middlemen

My issue is, people that are determined and have had all the proofs and more have been denied after 2017. I’m not saying we should rush getting more into action right away. I’m saying be fair and abide by the requisites of obtaining the rank. If someone is denied there has to be a good reason if they did what was needed to be accepted.

There are many “non randoms” that are extremely trusted that MM on the daily that definitely deserve the rank. I agree that OMM are trusted but that shouldn’t change your perception on how trusted they are in the end. It can be a factor but not the determining factor as vouches cover that in my option.

Also most OMM’s aren’t active enough but that’s my personal opinion. Others can chime in

 

That doesn't work the point of the rank is to have it be exclusive if you make it just here are the requirements and people get it. That doesn't work it doesn't stand by what the rank has stood for. That's why changing the money amount won't matter because the point is it's supposed to be exclusive. If people have more trust in a normal MM then a certain OMM then so be it. Use that MM. There are plenty of free MM that are don't need OMM to be trusted.

 

Official middlemen should have no fee.

 

Getting the proofs and requirements is already a tall task just ask @Pegasus xD, exclusiveness is important I agree but people deserving the rank should get it by doing what is required as well as having good ethics and etc, but I have seen many legit people get denied that have had this and beyond.

True about using a regular MM but I believe that OMM should rightfully be the preferred MM's to circumvent less scams as Tyler pointed out, and I believe many people that would never scam have been denied. Just my opinion

 

Correct but at the end of the day as the process may change because it has through the years and that's a possibility the way that people are actually chosen won't change.

 

It seem to has changed a bit tho after 2017 as even some great users has been denied. I would love to hear some more clarification on this from mods as well

 

If you meet the prereq that does not mean you'll automatically be accepted.

Also you don't seem to know how the procsss works, if somebody is denied they are given the reasoning as to why and they are free to work on it before their next application.

 

That is a contradiction, either people will be more likely to use an OMM or they will be more likely to use a free MM (who isn't official). When I tell my clients that I'll use someone like @QBD or @Laziz they are normally happy doing that.

Maybe the reason they're not applying is simply because they are collecting proofs? I feel that a lot of people haven't collected the proofs that they want. I think an OMM mentioned before in the past that if you use 1B+ 07 trades for say trades over $200, it will be more impressive than someone who applies and only puts the minimum requirements in their application(s). It might have been that people realise this and therefore they want to include more impressive vouches in their application so they're more likely to be accepted.

Could you elaborate on what the confusion is between the newer and older members having to do with this role?

What makes you think that newer members don't have a fair chance to get the rank? They didn't get it on their first attempt? Maybe if that's the case, it's something to do with them putting their bare minimum in their application(s) instead of going beyond those minimum requirements to make their application(s) look more impressive

Can you define recently? Looking at the OMM section, there doesn't appear to be an application that has been in voting since February this year. I think it's more to do with the fact that less people are applying, which could be to do with the fact that they want their OMM applications to look more impressive so they're more likely to get the rank.

I'm fairly sure this is already a thing. In order to remain an OMM, I'm fairly sure that you need to maintain the rank as well. If an OMM could confirm this, please quote this to confirm whether this is correct or not.

It's already difficult to achieve, what makes you think that putting a higher trust will make it more prestigious? If people are already struggling to get the OMM Rank, I don't see how your suggestion would change this. It would still lead to the same outcome, more people getting denied than accepted.

 

In response to @Management

1. Most people that use MM's on a daily basis use people like QBD or Laziz obviously as they are known to be arguably the most trusted people on site that aren't moderators. But many new people wouldn't know this because they wouldn't see them under the OMM role. I think better transparency in which OMM's should be "preferred" and because of this it needs to be revamped as most OMM's are inactive despite even bumping their OMM threads (probably using an auto bumper)

2. I agree that might be part of the problem, I feel that recently many people are demotivated to even try due to the inactivity of the Head OMM and most OMM's that are out of date a bit in the sense that they are almost never around doing their services. Someone can check this within the OMM's threads/vouches to see their inactivity. People are demotivated because they see people like @King @Wortel @Champ and others being denied repeatedly, with the voting process taking way too long. I believe this role needs a fresh start and current ACTIVE OMM's can keep their roles ofc.

3. My point about the separation of newer and older members is that older members had a fair chance of getting this role, many current OMM's that had applied a few years back seem to apply to a Cal State school In College Terms, but now the acceptance rate is like going to Harvard Law or some shit except no one gets it even people friends with the school (mods). So this separation has grown overtime with many OMM's being more a thing of the past compared to the future, where many other active Non OMM's who operate a lot more actively and with larger amounts, that definitely should have a shot at this role.

4. In regards to why no one has been accepted recently there is no question that something Is up. Look at the current OMM's and look at who's been denied and let that do the talking. No calling out any names but there could've been some Great additions including @King and others, while some current OMM's I would definitely not trust as much as them ^. The person in charge of determining OMM's has been extremely inactive as well.

5. Yes many people have not applied but the people who have are beyond qualified and I think we can all agree there. I believe there could be many other people applying (like myself and a few others I have spoken to) that would consider applying but seeing as there is no real benefit and seeing extremely reputable members being denied consistently doesn't help and makes them believe they would end up failing. I think it would be cool if we overhaul the threads make an announcement and potentially give OMM's other perks and incentive to go for it. It would make Sythe bigger and better and circumvent more trade.

6. In response to the inactivity point @King gives a perfect response on the issues as I had not been involved with it. What he said just proves my point and I had expected it to be the case with others not just him.

7. I understand it is already difficult to achieve. Why not make it more of a steep slope but actually accept new applicants? Would you personally want an OMM only being trusted with.a measly $500, when there are many trades well over that amount? It keeps the difficulty that is has right now with that change, but for the right reasons. Not due to the Head OMM being extremely inactive and no effort and time along with gray areas to what determines an individual to become an OMM.

IN Response to King, I agree with everything and glad he pointed out more issues I failed to do so earlier. I believe we should shift the change to a more active person and I believe @video would be the perfect candidate. Potentially the vote can be between other OMM's and Moderators to determine new OMM's.

Would love to hear more responses on this issue as well!

 

I'm not in OMM usergroup or have the rank since becoming HMM. I turn down OMM's and perform HMM-related tasks as required.

This is already being done. Dave was the latest removed 4 months ago.

 

Usually when a user asks to use an MM, that typically implies any middleman. A lot of new users would see someone like QBD (who has 2400+ vouches) or Laziz (who holds 3000+ vouches) and would agree to do it because they would be able to see that these people have tens of thousands of dollars traded, possibly even many hundreds of thousands of dollars traded (and even more, going up to millions of dollars traded). I feel that people are more inclined to use a free middleman because both parties will not be out of pocket whereas, if you're using an OMM, there is a 99% chance that you're going to have to pay some kind of fee unless of course, the OMM has some kind of promotion on when they're doing it for free in which case people would just do that.

As for inactive OMM's, if they're autobumping the threads but not actually OMMing, I'm fairly sure that falls under the false advertisement rule. Same as if someone was advertising they were selling gold but not actually online to sell the gold.

As far as I can see, the three users you listed above earlier, only got denied once



I understand that people get denied repeatedly, but I truly believe that it is a rare occurrence for an individual to actually get the OMM role on their first application. I agree that the inactive OMM's shouldn't be able to stay and as I did say earlier, I'm fairly sure that you should be required to maintain the role after achieving it otherwise it's meaningless and people could just apply to hoard the rank.

I understand this point. This may have been done mainly because of the fact that the older members applied when there was a lack of OMM's. Now there are many of them to the point where the OMM rank has become harder to obtain so that there isn't an over-saturation of OMM's. I'm sure that non-OMM's who operate more actively and with larger amounts would definitely have a shot at this role if they decided to apply. Also, I'm not sure why a person who is a friend of a moderator would be more likely to get the OMM rank over someone that isn't a friend of a moderator.

I'm looking at the applications that have and haven't been accepted recently. There has been nobody applying for the past 5-6 months. People can choose to apply, if they decide not to apply then they have a greater likelihood of their OMM application being archived. If in the worse case they get declined, it gives them plenty of opportunity to collect new trades and reapply as well as working on their feedback that they get given on why they were denied as @Tyler mentioned earlier. You do say that reputable members being denied consistently doesn't help and makes them believe that they end up failing however, if you gave the OMM rank to every staff member, high donor and every user with 1k+ vouches then the OMM rank would become over-saturated and would not mean anything due to too many people having it.

If you feel like you are trusted enough to be an OMM, why haven't you applied? You don't know if you'd get denied or not unless you apply.

As for incentives for OMM's, what is your proposal? OMM's are already given an opportunity to charge a fee for their service which is definitely a good financial benefit. What other benefits would make you more likely to apply for the OMM role?

Look forward to hearing your opinions!

 

Well I agree, but like I said everyone that I've met here so far say time is money. But again IMO you normally only go for this to help ppl not get Insta scammed. So normally you would want to help ppl. But I think some found it as a business, and they look to profit from it.

 

You have my support on this @Assassin

I was thinking on this for a while and do you think Mod+ should even have OMM? I think it should be a separate role (if it isn't already). They could just advertise that they are Mod/Admin and get money for middlemanning transactions. I might sound dumb to suggest that, because some OMM would get Mod+ after being one for a long time. I'm not sure if this is a good suggestion or idea. Let me know what you and other people think on that.

 

Update: Just went through the process myself. I must say @Shin always replied in a very timely manner to any questions and concerns I had with the process. I had to delete a bunch of stuff start over and switch things around and it took a lot of my time but I always had him there to help me out if I was stuck. He gave me good pointers and advice. What's Important was that he was there and truly carried himself as he should as the HMM. Accepted or Denied, it was a nice process but not easy process overall and that's how it should be.

I think with Heavier Activity Restrictions and by that making sure they are at least bumping their MM Topic and interacting on Sythe, it will be much better and refreshing as a whole. @King made up some valid points

More MM's or Higher Requirements can be decided by the admins/mods themselves. I believe it would help a lot but ultimately it will be decided by them. The process is hard but I do believe the top requirement should be a tad higher. Thanks

Shin gave me a good response to why some more specific guidelines are missing. They want people to learn as they go. Make mistakes and improve them and improve their process of MMing. The Guidelines may need some sort of changes but I get this reasoning behind It all.

Overall I believe there should be some changes but not as drastic as I had previously thought. Thanks for hearing me out.

Assassin

 

I think that MMS shouldn't learn as they go, all MMS should have specific guidelines to follow in every single case otherwise you make them liable for not using the method that you know is the right one ending up in rejections.

 

Middlemanning a trade takes time, and it is only fair to be compensated for that time. Whether you are an official middleman or not.

 

People should aim to be official middlemen for the community and the safety of others. If you can’t take 20 minutes out of your day to prevent someone from potentially losing hundreds of dollars, then your morals are off.

That’s just my opinion though.

 

If you don't pay someone for preventing you from losing hundreds of dollars, I think you are abusing this someone. Time is probably the most valuable thing we have so I won't expect someone to just hand it to me.

 

They earned the role I don't see any point in stripping it from them. If your going to take it from them for inactivity then make another rank such as "retired OMM" mods and administrators have it so why not OMM.