2015-2016 NBA Discussion Thread

[briantir]

There is a rumored report saying Kyrie is unhappy with the situation in Cleveland. If this true, there is no way they win this year.

I don't blame him if it wasn't for Lebron, Irving would be developing into a better point guard with Lebron on the team he plays Point Forward so Irving turns into a scorer at best which kinda sucks because he wants to be a facilitator not a shooting guard lol.

 

[briantir]

The closer we get to the playoffs the more I feel Cleveland is not unbeatable... Last year this time they turned into friggin beast mode and started raping everyone they won like all their games in the second half of the season almost 25-5 run or something...

This year it's totally different it's like they just going downhill unless Lebron does Leclutch but he can't do that every night because he's getting old and his minutes are beyond fucked he'll get no rest before the playoffs and if he does rest Cleveland will just lose because without Lebron they are utter shit.

 

I don't blame him if it wasn't for Lebron, Irving would be developing into a better point guard with Lebron on the team he plays Point Forward so Irving turns into a scorer at best which kinda sucks because he wants to be a facilitator not a shooting guard lol.

If it wasn't for Lebron, Irving would be playing hero ball all day without a care in the world. Before Lebron came into the picture, he couldn't lift the cavs to an 8th seed in the terrible east. Similarly to Draymond Green running the offense through him in golden state, Lebron does the same for the cavs. Steph curry still finds a way to average 6.6 assists, Irving is averaging 4.4. When Lebron takes a rest on the bench, he should easily be racking the assists up, but instead he plays 1v1, and he's not a good passer so there is also that.

The closer we get to the playoffs the more I feel Cleveland is not unbeatable... Last year this time they turned into friggin beast mode and started raping everyone they won like all their games in the second half of the season almost 25-5 run or something...

This year it's totally different it's like they just going downhill unless Lebron does Leclutch but he can't do that every night because he's getting old and his minutes are beyond fucked he'll get no rest before the playoffs and if he does rest Cleveland will just lose because without Lebron they are utter shit.

Last year the teams in the east, and arguably the west were playing much worse than they are now.

Heat = No bosh and have a different team
Pacers = No PG13 and have a different team
Detroit = Different team
Charlotte = Different team (no jeremy lin or knick batum etc)
Jazz = Different team
Celtics = Got much better
Raptors = Got better
Wizards = Arguably better, just started off bad this season
Magic = Got better
Spurs = Got better, different team
Thunder = No KD
Clippers = Playing better
Grizz = Playing better
Mavs = Different team

Lebron has 2 more years or so of dominance before I see him deteriorating to the level which you speak of. I still can't see any team in the east beating the cavs in a 7 game series, even if they don't have home court advantage. Regular season is just that. He plays his best in the playoffs, and statistics show he's as clutch if not more than Jordan when that time comes.

 

[uJesternWind]

There is a rumored report saying Kyrie is unhappy with the situation in Cleveland. If this true, there is no way they win this year.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...unks-report-hes-not-happy-cleveland/81148492/

Glad that that's settled, never good to see players unhappy with their team and not performing their best - can't imagine other teams beating the Cavs would feel it's legit if there was no Irving, puts a little * next to it imo.

ILebron has 2 more years or so of dominance before I see him deteriorating to the level which you speak of. I still can't see any team in the east beating the cavs in a 7 game series, even if they don't have home court advantage. Regular season is just that. He plays his best in the playoffs, and statistics show he's as clutch if not more than Jordan when that time comes.

Just as you said with the Cavs being only 1 well-timed ankle injury away from being a serious championship contender, it works the other way as well. Not just an ankle injury but even a single game where playoff Lebron just isn't there, and Cavs lose at home, means that even their first round matchup is suddenly looking a lot better to knock them out. ik you said before you don't care about baseball but last year the Jays were heavy, heavy favourites to win the WS and ended up falling in the ALCS. Exception this year I'd say is GSW where I think it's pretty obvious they have a walk to the WCF but even then I wouldn't say they're guaranteed to get out of that. Playoff sports are a completely new and different season, for better or for worse.

 

[briantir]

If it wasn't for Lebron, Irving would be playing hero ball all day without a care in the world. Before Lebron came into the picture, he couldn't lift the cavs to an 8th seed in the terrible east. Similarly to Draymond Green running the offense through him in golden state, Lebron does the same for the cavs. Steph curry still finds a way to average 6.6 assists, Irving is averaging 4.4. When Lebron takes a rest on the bench, he should easily be racking the assists up, but instead he plays 1v1, and he's not a good passer so there is also that.



Last year the teams in the east, and arguably the west were playing much worse than they are now.

Heat = No bosh and have a different team
Pacers = No PG13 and have a different team
Detroit = Different team
Charlotte = Different team (no jeremy lin or knick batum etc)
Jazz = Different team
Celtics = Got much better
Raptors = Got better
Wizards = Arguably better, just started off bad this season
Magic = Got better
Spurs = Got better, different team
Thunder = No KD
Clippers = Playing better
Grizz = Playing better
Mavs = Different team

Lebron has 2 more years or so of dominance before I see him deteriorating to the level which you speak of. I still can't see any team in the east beating the cavs in a 7 game series, even if they don't have home court advantage. Regular season is just that. He plays his best in the playoffs, and statistics show he's as clutch if not more than Jordan when that time comes.

Cleveland should have made moves during the off-season they should have gotten rid of Mozgoth, Anderson, and Shumpert...

Instead they overpaid Tristan Thompson Lol

Cleveland wasted the first 6 years of Lebrons career by not giving him the pieces needed to win a championship and now they are making the same mistake all over again...

These next two years are so precious to Lebron I could see him leaving Cleveland again Lol imagine Golden State signs him haha that would be hilarious.

On another note when Michael Jordan was 31 he won a championship and posted better numbers than Lebron so don't compare them lol.... Michael is 6/6 Lebron is 2/4 when it's time to win Michael is a different animal.

 

[vikes15]

For anyone carrying on nonsense saying that Kyrie is unhappy in Cleveland, you are just continuing on a report that the MEDIA started. I was watching First Take live when Stephen A Smith made the report, and it was complete bs. I understand that Kyrie signed with Cleveland unaware of the fact that Lebron was coming back, but how would nay player be angry in his situation? He has a great contract, he puts up #s, and the Cavs are going to walk through the East easily.. It just doesn't make any logical sense

 

[briantir]

For anyone carrying on nonsense saying that Kyrie is unhappy in Cleveland, you are just continuing on a report that the MEDIA started. I was watching First Take live when Stephen A Smith made the report, and it was complete bs. I understand that Kyrie signed with Cleveland unaware of the fact that Lebron was coming back, but how would nay player be angry in his situation? He has a great contract, he puts up #s, and the Cavs are going to walk through the East easily.. It just doesn't make any logical sense

LeBron is going to have to play crazy minutes in the playoffs lol even if they do make the finals they will not beat Golden State it's just not possible...

Confirmed Chicago is not making the playoffs lmao.

Bold perdictions:

Toronto takes 1st seed in the East and surprises the world by heading to the NBA finals haha.

 

Just as you said with the Cavs being only 1 well-timed ankle injury away from being a serious championship contender, it works the other way as well. Not just an ankle injury but even a single game where playoff Lebron just isn't there, and Cavs lose at home, means that even their first round matchup is suddenly looking a lot better to knock them out. ik you said before you don't care about baseball but last year the Jays were heavy, heavy favourites to win the WS and ended up falling in the ALCS. Exception this year I'd say is GSW where I think it's pretty obvious they have a walk to the WCF but even then I wouldn't say they're guaranteed to get out of that. Playoff sports are a completely new and different season, for better or for worse.

One single game in a playoff series doesn't determine the outcome of it. A good example of that is the playoff series last year with the bulls when cavs were down 1-2, and went on to win 3 straight. Baseball is not basketball, comparing sports in this respect doesn't make sense.

Cleveland should have made moves during the off-season they should have gotten rid of Mozgoth, Anderson, and Shumpert...

Instead they overpaid Tristan Thompson Lol

Cleveland wasted the first 6 years of Lebrons career by not giving him the pieces needed to win a championship and now they are making the same mistake all over again...

These next two years are so precious to Lebron I could see him leaving Cleveland again Lol imagine Golden State signs him haha that would be hilarious.

On another note when Michael Jordan was 31 he won a championship and posted better numbers than Lebron so don't compare them lol.... Michael is 6/6 Lebron is 2/4 when it's time to win Michael is a different animal.

It's funny you mention the cavs not giving Lebron enough pieces, and in the same breath blame him for his playoff losses. His first finals loss was because he lacked the pieces to compete with the spurs, his 3rd loss against the spurs was because he didn't have enough help, and obviously the golden state loss was because there was no Kyrie or Love. Look at Jordan's team at age 31 and compare it to Lebron's team now. If we're talking about individual performances in the playoffs, Lebron is right up there with Jordan if not higher. Forget the 25 straight points against the pistons to end the series or averaging nearly 40 against Orlando with a terrible team?

 

[briantir]

Another big showdown between OKC and GS so far both games have been extremely entertaining let's see if the Thunder can finally give the greatest basketball team ever its first home loss! Come on OKC you can do it!

 

[vikes15]

Another big showdown between OKC and GS so far both games have been extremely entertaining let's see if the Thunder can finally give the greatest basketball team ever its first home loss! Come on OKC you can do it!

Andddddddddddd OKC blows it in the 4th yet again .. Slowly turning into the Sixers with how they play in the 4th

 

[vikes15]

One single game in a playoff series doesn't determine the outcome of it. A good example of that is the playoff series last year with the bulls when cavs were down 1-2, and went on to win 3 straight. Baseball is not basketball, comparing sports in this respect doesn't make sense.



It's funny you mention the cavs not giving Lebron enough pieces, and in the same breath blame him for his playoff losses. His first finals loss was because he lacked the pieces to compete with the spurs, his 3rd loss against the spurs was because he didn't have enough help, and obviously the golden state loss was because there was no Kyrie or Love. Look at Jordan's team at age 31 and compare it to Lebron's team now. If we're talking about individual performances in the playoffs, Lebron is right up there with Jordan if not higher. Forget the 25 straight points against the pistons to end the series or averaging nearly 40 against Orlando with a terrible team?

I agree. There's no possible way you can compare MJ and Bron simply because of the help around him. In the finals last year Lebron put up 35.8 PPG/ 13.3 Boards/ and 8.8 Assists .. So basically averaging nearly a triple double per game. They somehow had a 2-1 series lead with dellavedova at the point in place of Kyrie .. Lebron simply could not have done any more than he did. I'm hoping they're fully healthy this year so we could see what this squad can do in the postseason

 

[uJesternWind]

One single game in a playoff series doesn't determine the outcome of it. A good example of that is the playoff series last year with the bulls when cavs were down 1-2, and went on to win 3 straight. Baseball is not basketball, comparing sports in this respect doesn't make sense.

It's not just with baseball but basketball as well, every single series that gets pushed to 7 games is influenced by each individual game. Having that 1 game advantage turns it from winning 4 of 7 to winning 3 of 6, especially when the underdog steals one on the road it just means they have to hold their own at home to win it. I'd say that one single game in a series doesn't always determine the outcome of it, but can have a huge influence on it.

 

It's not just with baseball but basketball as well, every single series that gets pushed to 7 games is influenced by each individual game. Having that 1 game advantage turns it from winning 4 of 7 to winning 3 of 6, especially when the underdog steals one on the road it just means they have to hold their own at home to win it. I'd say that one single game in a series doesn't always determine the outcome of it, but can have a huge influence on it.

One game doesn't have a significant impact the way you're projecting it to be. Obviously if we use common sense, one win means one less win to win the series, but it means just that. How many times has Lebron been down 0-1 in a series to go on winning it? I can name many.

 

[uJesternWind]

One game doesn't have a significant impact the way you're projecting it to be. Obviously if we use common sense, one win means one less win to win the series, but it means just that. How many times has Lebron been down 0-1 in a series to go on winning it? I can name many.

A lot of times, yeah but honestly I think it has a way bigger impact than people think.

Teams that go up 1-0 in the NBA end up with a series winning percentage of .769, not saying that teams don't come back from it (especially a high caliber Cavs team) and I'm aware this data is skewed as the better team generally ends up winning the first game due to both being better and being on home court, but I do think the impact is quite significant, especially in the scenario that the lower seed steals a game from home.

(just for fun, leading 2-1 in the NBA means you have a win pct of .818 in the series :O)

http://www.whowins.com/tables/up10.html

 

A lot of times, yeah but honestly I think it has a way bigger impact than people think.

Teams that go up 1-0 in the NBA end up with a series winning percentage of .769, not saying that teams don't come back from it (especially a high caliber Cavs team) and I'm aware this data is skewed as the better team generally ends up winning the first game due to both being better and being on home court, but I do think the impact is quite significant, especially in the scenario that the lower seed steals a game from home.

(just for fun, leading 2-1 in the NBA means you have a win pct of .818 in the series :O)

http://www.whowins.com/tables/up10.html

You've yet to tell me the significance in this. Saying on average teams go on to win it after winning the first game doesn't mean that specific outcome I gave will be the case, or will necessarily favor such. This is an appeal to popularity fallacy, or rather a large numbers fallacy.

You have to take into account many things.

1. Who has home court advantage
2. How was the game won
3. How bad was the loss
4. Players on the roster
5. Statistics of the game

Usually the better team wins, and if it happens to be the first game then so be it, but you're arguing those who win the first game are more likely to win the series which is false. You'd be pointing at other teams in that scenario which doesn't have an affect on the current game being played.

Let's say the cavs have home court advantage and lose the first game, the playing field would then be even in terms of home court advantage. You can say the raptors have the upper hand since they're a game above but it stops there.

The cavs were up 2-1 against Golden state in the finals. Does this mean they had an 80% chance of winning the series? Not in the slightest.

Memphis was 2-1 against Golden state in the playoffs. Does this mean they had an 80% chance of winning the series? No.

I already gave you the bulls vs cavs scenario.

 

[briantir]

For the Raptors to beat the Cleveland in the playoffs, Raps would have to play amazing four times like Lowry scored 40+ to beat Cleveland last time rest of the team gotta play strong as well or there's no chance.

If both teams play to their actual ceiling Cleveland will win just because Lebron will average like insane numbers 35+ points and triple double probably.

But on the other hand he will be playing extended minutes and at 31 years of age he can't just drive the ball over and over again like previous years so he'll have to get this stretch of terrible shooting out of his system or Cleveland will have a lot of trouble once they get to the Finals.

 

[vikes15]

For the Raptors to beat the Cleveland in the playoffs, Raps would have to play amazing four times like Lowry scored 40+ to beat Cleveland last time rest of the team gotta play strong as well or there's no chance.

If both teams play to their actual ceiling Cleveland will win just because Lebron will average like insane numbers 35+ points and triple double probably.

But on the other hand he will be playing extended minutes and at 31 years of age he can't just drive the ball over and over again like previous years so he'll have to get this stretch of terrible shooting out of his system or Cleveland will have a lot of trouble once they get to the Finals.

If Cleveland stays healthy, they will walk through the East with no issues at all. However, if a team is going to give them any trouble, I think the Boston Celtics would be that team. They've been playing amazing and Isiah Thomas is one of the best guards in the league right now

 

[vikes15]

It's sad that a thread about THIS NBA SEASON is turning into a Mj/Lebron discussion .. you guys are like those clowns that comment on ESPN's stuff all day ... "but could they beat the 95-96 bulls?!?!?!" .. please stop

 

[briantir]

If Cleveland stays healthy, they will walk through the East with no issues at all. However, if a team is going to give them any trouble, I think the Boston Celtics would be that team. They've been playing amazing and Isiah Thomas is one of the best guards in the league right now

Raptors are the 2nd best team in the East if anyone gives Cleveland trouble it will be them in the Conference final... At this point if it's not TOR vs CLE in the ECF it would be a huge upset because TOR and CLE are clearly a class higher then the rest of the EAST.


And you can safely assume Toronto and Cleveland are finishing in the top 2 seeds we just don't know if Cleveland can hang on to that number one seed because Toronto does have the tie breaker... Neither team will lose enough to drop anything lower then 2.

 

[vikes15]

Raptors are the 2nd best team in the East if anyone gives Cleveland trouble it will be them in the Conference final... At this point if it's not TOR vs CLE in the ECF it would be a huge upset because TOR and CLE are clearly a class higher then the rest of the EAST.


And you can safely assume Toronto and Cleveland are finishing in the top 2 seeds we just don't know if Cleveland can hang on to that number one seed because Toronto does have the tie breaker... Neither team will lose enough to drop anything lower then 2.

Boston's only 4.5 games back behind Toronto, and Boston has been one of the hottest teams out of the All-Star break. I think they pose a bigger threat to Cleveland than Toronto