[POLL] CDT/PR/TC - Usergroup colours/markups

[Angels]

I think members are capable of reading the arguments themselves and coming to their own conclusions. Are these ex-staff not a part of the community themselves?

 

[Program]

I think members are capable of reading the arguments themselves and coming to their own conclusions.

They aren't capable of reading "moderator" on people's profile apparently and that seems much easier than formulating an opinion on this subject

 

[Angels]

They aren't capable of reading "moderator" on people's profile apparently and that seems much easier than formulating an opinion on this subject

Interesting though, if these members are dumb enough to blindly follow the opinion of the crowd, who's to say they aren't dumb enough to automatically associate the colour with being a mod? Surely these people will end up doing just that and running into problems then? :thinking:

 

[Program]

Interesting though, if these members are dumb enough to blindly follow the opinion of the crowd, who's to say they aren't dumb enough to automatically associate the colour with being a mod? Surely these people will end up doing just that and running into problems then? :thinking:

Didn't say they were dumb enough to follow, was just pointing out the irony in your logic there.

 

[Angels]

Didn't say they were dumb enough to follow, was just pointing out the irony in your logic there.

I never said that one of my reasons was because staff members would be confused with team members though? That's definitely not my argument. I think having coloured names make staff easier to spot though, and having the coloured names doesn't really serve any real benefit besides making the team members feel special. But if they keep it, it's not the biggest deal either. Just throwing in my two cents, especially after people were claiming only ex-staff are against it.

 

[S]

Sellerman, Ryan, Mootrucks, Gohan, Cas_m, Kmjt, Sypherz, Flyingtoast(mootrucks didn't vote really so I'll say hes neutral ).

All of the above sat on staff during what I would call some of the most dictating/anti-change based staff teams since I've been on Sythe - I am not saying any of them were bad staff but the fact remains that during that era change on the scale we've been seeing lately was non-existent.

You say its a community poll yet, 8 of the people are all ex-staff during the above eras.

To put that in perspective, 19 of the 39 posts on this thread(I counted) were made by the above users.

That means 48.7% of the comments were made by people who traditionally are not pro-change on the scale Sythe needs, thus biasing the vote massively.

This is not a community poll, its a old staff poll with the rest of us thrown in, any new member voting is going to side with the group commenting and talking the most and nearly 50% of the posts supporting this idea were made by the exact same group of people.

If you removed old-staff out of the equation this poll is like 35-65% with the majority falling in saying no don't revert the changes. So no, the "almost 100%" u claim wanted these reverted in the announcement thread clearly does not exist, even with them in the polls 50/50 nearly.

I am not criticizing but I also don't want to see changes reverted just because old-staff are all going back to their old ways.

I don't see a point to continuing this dialogue, as you don't have all the relevant info to make an informed statement. In saying that, that's not your fault, as you would need to have been/be staff. What you've said thus far is hugely inaccurate tbh.

I think you're taking this too personally though, and need to accept that not all ex-staff members have a vendetta against the populus here.

Also, community poll implies EVERYONE. Not sure how being ex staff is relevant or why you keep bringing that up. - half of our active user base is ex staff.

 

I think the perk is nice, but if they took it from me specifically and left it for everyone else in the groups I'd still argue to keep it.

People should also be joining the staff team of their "their own free well, and passion to improve / benefit the community," but I think we all know many do it for the perks. And that's how it's always been, not fair to single out the groups for having ulterior motives.

Fair enough, I don't think anyone can deny that the additional perks are appealing, but it just brings me back to the points I made / questions I asked in the post you quoted.

We've already "been there done that" with teams that have ranks / icons / lounges / additional perks in attempts to foster activity and interest in said teams, only to fall short and scrap the teams entirely (I'm looking at you OGV/UE/CA/ CDT before it was 'revived' by Jack / roary). First we gave the CDT miniranks to have them stand out and be unique among the community. Then someone added a fun-rank to the 'CDT-Leader' position. Following this change we incorporated fun-ranks for ALL team members. Throughout all of these changes I would argue that member turnover increased, while interest, activity and community involvement in all that these teams do has declined. Why would adding another large, previously staff-identifying perk be any different? The usergroup colors on Discord were created so these said groups could have private areas to chat with eachother after migrating from Skype group chats. What purpose do colored names on the site serve? Will we soon be adding colors for DNT / TWC / Verifier usergroups as well?

If this is followed through with, I want to see it done well and for the right reasons.

I have a problem with the fact that every person commenting saying they voted yes used to sit on the old Staff team which mass resigned or was demoted in protest of DNT and site changes.

Sellerman, Ryan, Mootrucks, Gohan, Cas_m, Kmjt, Sypherz, Flyingtoast(mootrucks didn't vote really so I'll say hes neutral ).

All of the above sat on staff during what I would call some of the most dictating/anti-change based staff teams since I've been on Sythe - I am not saying any of them were bad staff but the fact remains that during that era change on the scale we've been seeing lately was non-existent.

Cas and I were the only two that 'resigned' during that time period. I don't even have any qualms against DNT (that was not the reason why I resigned) so I don't know why you lump me in as "anti-change". You shouldn't just throw around large claims like that before first researching what you are talking about.

 

[Program]

Fair enough, I don't think anyone can deny that the additional perks are appealing, but it just brings me back to the points I made / questions I asked in the post you quoted.
If this is followed through with, I want to see it done well and for the right reasons.

Honestly this situation is not a big deal to me, if I lose my color whoopdie do, but I feel like the reasoning people are giving for not don't make sense and originate from a sense of jealousy and not wanting people to get things in a different way than they did.

I'm not understanding what's wrong with spicing up the forum and trying different things to mix it up. Seems like people are trying to kill every fun idea anyone has. Wish people would stop being Debbie Downers on every little thing because in reality this is a very small change if you take a step back and just serves to encourage us in the groups to work harder and those outside to be more inclined to join. Then there's more of us to have a good time. Not seeing how this is a bad thing when the main concern is that staff should maintain exclusivity for every perk ever, there's only so much a forum can offer users and I really don't see the harm in a temporary color.

Also this poll was begun on a strong bias, Sellerman claimed that the promotion thread was full of discontent with this edit and not much support, but I went and counted the posts and the number of people who supported outnumbered those who didn't by a good number. The icon is a thumbs down on the concept. Also it's being exaggerated as taking away a lot of the staff specific perks, when in reality it's one small perk that's pretty much shared by the entire community. With UI's everyone is allowed a colored name, but that's not stealing a staff perk? If not, then there's a quick solution, force all the groups to use a UI in the color and then there'll be no real difference between us and a regular user.

tl;dr My issue is people taking the fun out of everything for the wrong reasons or no reason at all and making this out to be something it isn't.

 

[-Ryan]

Sellerman, Ryan, Mootrucks, Gohan, Cas_m, Kmjt, Sypherz, Flyingtoast(mootrucks didn't vote really so I'll say hes neutral ).

All of the above sat on staff during what I would call some of the most dictating/anti-change based staff teams since I've been on Sythe - I am not saying any of them were bad staff but the fact remains that during that era change on the scale we've been seeing lately was non-existent.

You say its a community poll yet, 8 of the people are all ex-staff during the above eras.

To put that in perspective, 19 of the 39 posts on this thread(I counted) were made by the above users.

That means 48.7% of the comments were made by people who traditionally are not pro-change on the scale Sythe needs, thus biasing the vote massively.

This is not a community poll, its a old staff poll with the rest of us thrown in, any new member voting is going to side with the group commenting and talking the most and nearly 50% of the posts supporting this idea were made by the exact same group of people.

If you removed old-staff out of the equation this poll is like 35-65% with the majority falling in saying no don't revert the changes. So no, the "almost 100%" u claim wanted these reverted in the announcement thread clearly does not exist, even with them in the polls 50/50 nearly.

I am not criticizing but I also don't want to see changes reverted just because old-staff are all going back to their old ways.

Anti-change? That’s hilarious man, you are heavily uninformed. Site changes never had anything to do with me leaving staff, I’ve agreed with most of them. I just got busy with other things.

And if you are going to discount ex-staff votes, then how can you count all the CDT/TC/PR member votes? Their votes are more biased than ours.

I’ve barely been on Sythe the last couple months. I couldn’t care less what color their usernames are, i just don’t see the point of changing it.

 

[kmjt]

Sellerman, Ryan, Mootrucks, Gohan, Cas_m, Kmjt, Sypherz, Flyingtoast(mootrucks didn't vote really so I'll say hes neutral ).

All of the above sat on staff during what I would call some of the most dictating/anti-change based staff teams since I've been on Sythe - I am not saying any of them were bad staff but the fact remains that during that era change on the scale we've been seeing lately was non-existent.

You say its a community poll yet, 8 of the people are all ex-staff during the above eras.

To put that in perspective, 19 of the 39 posts on this thread(I counted) were made by the above users.

That means 48.7% of the comments were made by people who traditionally are not pro-change on the scale Sythe needs, thus biasing the vote massively.

This is not a community poll, its a old staff poll with the rest of us thrown in, any new member voting is going to side with the group commenting and talking the most and nearly 50% of the posts supporting this idea were made by the exact same group of people.

If you removed old-staff out of the equation this poll is like 35-65% with the majority falling in saying no don't revert the changes. So no, the "almost 100%" u claim wanted these reverted in the announcement thread clearly does not exist, even with them in the polls 50/50 nearly.

I am not criticizing but I also don't want to see changes reverted just because old-staff are all going back to their old ways.

You're literally making up stories. I (and probably lots of others) resigned on good terms, it had nothing to do with site changes. I'm pretty sure I resigned years before DNT. As I told N4no I had to resign because it was taking away my focus from school (why should any of us have to justify our resignation anyway just because you want to spread lies?) Whether or not you are just completely ignorant, don't propagate lies because it fits your agenda.

 

And the rewards reflect that. Our reward pales in comparison. They get free name changes, funrank in perpetuity in the form of retired staff, chances at exclusive funranks, huge amount of trust, funrank, colored UI's, etc. So my argument stands. We get a funrank and colored name as long as we contribute and then after that, nothing. Huge difference.

The rewards have pushed the envelope many times. This one however is over the top and unnecessary. I and no one else should have to distinguish between a staff member and a “club” member.

 

I have a problem with the fact that every person commenting saying they voted yes used to sit on the old Staff team which mass resigned or was demoted in protest of DNT and site changes.

I would hope administration takes these votes with a grain of salt - Clearly the old staff team has STILL not been able to cope with the site changes considering every single one on this thread voted to revert the changes.

That is both disappointing and depressing to see that so much of the old team is still so set in their ways they cant even let the changes happen and see how they go down, instead wanting to reverse them before even giving them a chance which implies a certain narrow viewpoint that apparently is still sunk-deep.

I would hope @Sythe and @Shin take the above into consideration.

Your logic is retarded. This is just a testament to the size of active users and ex-staff members. If you have a small community and within that community you have a constant promotion and reisgnation cycle going on, you’re bound to end up with a lot of active users being ex-staff. That itself should not be a knock on this protest.

 

[kmjt]

Man idk how you guys think people are so retarded lol. If this was such a big issue we would have heard of scams happening caused by this issue by now. Everyone on Sythe knows that moderators have specific miniranks and have the WORD moderator on their profile?? If they can't read then getting scammed because of this will be the least of their problems.

Also colored username does not equal staff whatsoever. That may be the case in some places, but isn't common enough to be viewed as a common preconception or else scams on osbot because of colored names would be rampant, which it isn't.

People throwing out these wide claims without any evidence to back it up.

When I was active I had over 47,000 successful PA orders. That means 99% of my customers didn't have a Sythe account. Day after day my customers (who would eventually venture into Sythe because I told them to vouch me here) would get scammed because, yes, they are stupid. You can't fix stupid but you can prevent some of their stupidity by not implementing blatantly confusing and problematic changes like this. My customers will never bother to create a scam report because they are PA users. If they have a bad experience here, they will just vanish and go back to PA where they know they are safe.

 

[S]

@Divine as you can see, you're heavily uninformed.

You also don't know what change occurred when, and how - if you did, you'd realise there was more active change back then, while myself and others were on staff, and well before our tenure as well. Basically, change has always been present, however said change was easier to demonstrate in the past, as there was far more content to work with. In saying that, it has NOTHING to do with previous vs current staff, it's solely that there's only so much you can change and implement, before everything has been exhausted. So, naturally, current staff will have a harder time implementing 'change' (as mentioned before, the longer the forum exists for, the more gets ticked of the 'what can be done' list), which is not a testament to their capability.

Anyway, I'm done explaining things to you. If you want to actually discuss the topic of this thread, and not make up random statements, I'm down for that.

 

Voting yes, I mean, there's no harm, but there's no value to having it aswell. Didn't read all the comments.

 

[tMoon]

Do a standard usergroup with a color underline; it's less flashy and makes it harder to conflate them with staff members while still promoting their position.

We didn't have OMM's with colored groups due to its conflation with staff and now we're doing just that; albeit, with users in different roles.

 

[S]

Do a standard usergroup with a color underline; it's less flashy and makes it harder to conflate them with staff members while still promoting their position.

We didn't have OMM's with colored groups due to its conflation with staff and now we're doing just that; albeit, with users in different roles.

If anything, OMM's would be far, far, far higher up the totem poll for deserving/needing a coloured username, than simply community teams. To clarify, neither should, but if it had to be one or the other, defs OMM's.

 

[S]

so far the vote seems to contradict your supposed obvious majority being against.

61% for and 39% against is quite telling IMO. Historically, most votes on this website have required a similar data spread to be considered.

 

I’ve barely been on Sythe the last couple months. I couldn’t care less what color their usernames are, i just don’t see the point of changing it.

This. Doesn't matter to me if we change it or not - since I'm no longer using Sythe actively. However, I find this very confusing for the users. I seriously thought you guys were all promoted to mod lol A rank should be enough for these groups, imo. This was on the do not suggest list for good reasons.

 

[Program]

61% for and 39% against is quite telling IMO. Historically, most votes on this website have required a similar data spread to be considered.

Key words "so far." Petty.

Anyway I don't see any merit in polls on a forum where opinions are easily manipulated and tend towards a popularity contest rather than reason. Especially when you have an obvious bias by person holding the poll and act as though the issue already had a majority in one party when in fact the evidence suggested the opposite.

If you wanted honest results you would have made it a biased free vote and a discussion thread somewhere else on the topic. But that's how I see it.