Rule Reform: Sniped/Scammed RSNs

[Aklan]

Hi,

So recently the rules regarding labeling RSNs as sniped/scammed have changed. Under the official sythe rules, sniping an RSN off someone is regarded as scamming (and thus results in a permanent ban if proven guilty).

As of recently, posts claiming that an RSN was sniped (and thus labeling it as scammed/a scammer) will now be deleted and infracted as you are no longer able to label an RSN as sniped/scammed without sufficient evidence. Seems fair right?

Now here's the catch. There is absolutely NO way to prove a specific member has sniped your name, unless of course they admit to it which is very unlikely. How are you going to prove it was member X who sniped your name? Record your screen whilst moving it? Useless, as all that you'll be able to show is the name moving off your account and to someone else's. But who's account is it? How do you find out who? There is no way. At all.

Such a rule basically invites snipers and scammers into the community as this rule now grants them immunity! Picture this: Seller A is selling a sniped name. Buyer A likes the name and purchases it. He finds out 3 days later that the name was actually sniped a week beforehand from Seller B. But how could he have known? There is no post about it, no warning at all, all he wanted was a nice name for his account, right? Yet now he is in possession of a name, which Seller B had and demands to be refunded. So he goes to Seller A and asks why the guy sold him a sniped name. So, obviously, Seller A pretends he didn't know it was sniped, and claims he bought it ingame/off a friend. And whats that? He has no proof, shame...The outcome? A massive mess. How could anyone prove Seller A had sniped the name...it's his word against yours and yet your word isn't proof for a ban to be issued.

I'll also add that the RSN market itself is quite shady and has a lot of grey areas, such as this one. It IS common for names to be sniped, especially recently. This small modification of the rules now allows snipers to take the names, sell them off to name sellers who, in turn, sell them on the sythe market and face no consequences for purchasing (and selling) what used to be described as: STOLEN GOODS.

What I'm asking is that we find an alternate solution to this as it clearly isn't the right thing to do. Granting people immunity when purchasing stolen goods simply isn't something that should be tolerated which is why I'd like your feedback and if possible, any kind of alternate solutions you could think of.

In short:

-Modification of rule no longer allows RSNs to be marked as stolen goods
-Impossible to prove a name has been sniped by a specific person
-Grants immunity to snipers/scammers
-Allows resale of stolen goods on sythe

Any kind of ideas for alternate solutions are greatly appreciated and will be noted down to be discussed with moderators.

Thanks,

Aklan

 

[KLucius]

If only i could like this twice

 

[Bonesack]

I couldn't have said it better myself. The Name Sales forum has just become a safe haven for snipers. Even some of us more experienced name traders require the current information from our fellow forumers regarding the status of a name's legitimacy. With how many people sign up for Sythe for the sole reason to purchase an RSN; not only do they have little to no experience in the market but now they have no one to help them as we can't tell them if a name is sniped/scammed or not. They're now going in completely blind and have no way whatsoever of knowing if the name they're being offered is legitimate or not.

 

[JSand]

Whats the alternative? You literally didn't provide any.

 

[Bonesack]

Whats the alternative? You literally didn't provide any.

Any kind of ideas for alternate solutions are greatly appreciated and will be noted down to be discussed with moderators.

 

[JSand]

My point is, what's the point of posting a suggestion without any alternative? The rule is fine unless you or OP can come up with something better.

 

[Bonesack]

My point is, what's the point of posting a suggestion without any alternative? The rule is fine unless you or OP can come up with something better.

Based on that post alone I can tell you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, no offence. You have no right to weigh in on the issue as you clearly aren't familiar with the happenings within the name trading community. How is it okay to make a rule that disallows people from warning others that the name they are about to purchase is likely in the hands of a scammer and that subsequently by dealing with them they are subjected to being scammed as well? Also, names can be recovered just like Runescape accounts and this often happens multiple times as a user will join the site to sell a name to recover at a later time. They will often repeat the process multiple times scamming multiple users. Before this rule was implemented at least people could inquire as to the status of the name's legitimacy before purchasing which stopped this from happening in most cases as these names would be referred to and known as "serial scammers". Now snipers/scammers are free to advertise their names without anyone having the right to say so? Bullshit.

 

[JSand]

Based on that post alone I can tell you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, no offence. You have no right to weigh in on the issue as you clearly aren't familiar with the happenings within the name trading community. How is it okay to make a rule that disallows people from warning others that the name they are about to purchase is likely in the hands of a scammer and that subsequently by dealing with them they are subjected to being scammed as well? Also, names can be recovered just like Runescape accounts and this often happens multiple times as a user will join the site to sell a name to recover at a later time. They will often repeat the process multiple times scamming multiple users. Before this rule was implemented at least people could inquire as to the status of the name's legitimacy before purchasing which stopped this from happening in most cases as these names would be referred to and known as "serial scammers". Now snipers/scammers are free to advertise their names without anyone having the right to say so? Bullshit.

By your logic it's ok to call someone a scammer without any proof. Just because it's the name market it shouldn't exempt them from the rule. What stops me from calling you a scammer and saying you sniped my name?

And by your post alone I know you like to spew a bunch of crap without anything tangible or helpful. Again, what is the alternative that is better than the rule currently?

 

[KLucius]

I'm p sure what we're trying to get at is accusing PEOPLE of being snipers without proof is wrong, sure, but simply pointing out that a certain name has been sniped without mentioning any user's name is fine, and I have absolutely no problem with that.

Before this change people weren't posting "KLucius sniped the name Dirty Wombat! Do not do business with this user!" most posts were like "Dirty Wombat - sniped" which is in no way accusing anybody of being a scammer.. I don't get how you can compare warning people away from a name can relate to warning people away from a specific user

 

[Bonesack]

By your logic it's ok to call someone a scammer without any proof. Just because it's the name market it shouldn't exempt them from the rule. What stops me from calling you a scammer and saying you sniped my name?

And by your post alone I know you like to spew a bunch of crap without anything tangible or helpful. Again, what is the alternative that is better than the rule currently?

The alternative is to remove the new rule. It's seemingly the only viable option. At the end of the day there will be much more scamming within the Sythe name trading community as a result of this change. And as KLucius said, in most instances the information provided was simply "Uranus - sniped". And the label of the name changed based on what the newest information available was. If someone then purchased Uranus legitimately, they could very easily prove so and then the name would not be listed as sniped/scammed.

 

[KLucius]

(One of his posts were deleted so this may sound out of context)


If somebody were to report a user for selling a sniped name they would need more proof than "Yes hello KLucius said the name Dirty Wombat is sniped and this user is selling it, please ban him, thanks! - Pablo"

So 2-3 months down the line if somebody reports the name which has a new owner they'll still need exactly the same proof as they would if we were able to post freely about names being sniped, the only difference would be - less people would be buying sniped names

 

[Aklan]

Still looking for opinions/solutions

 

At the end of the day if somebody like an RSN, whether or not it has been sniped in the past and is seen as stolen goods by some people, it'll still be purchased by the person who covets it.

I agree that we shouldn't be allowed to call others scammers/snipers without proof, but with names there isn't any way to tell, unless like you said the scammer admits to it (not going to happen lol).

Maybe if there is suspicion of a name being sniped after a trade was supposed to occur, then the name could be added to a " trade with caution" list - the name might possibly be owned by a sniper and users are warned to be wary of someone trying to sell that RSN - it won't stop resale of a potentially stolen name, but it could prevent it.

If the name is sold on, and there is proof of a sale/transaction then it could be removed from the list as the new owner bought it fair and square. Just some thoughts.

 

[Lozz]

Seriously think the rules should be reverted also. Unless ur actively trading in the names market and are involved in the community, somebody won't fully grasp the consequences of not being able to list names as sniped. It encourages serial scamming/people making multiple accounts to get rid of sniped names.

Also would like to add there really isn't even a big deal with people 'owning sniped names',everybody has ownership of a sniped name probably but it doesn't mean ur a sniper. But if somebody has posted in the thread 3 days before that a name was sniped, and then somebody happens to be selling you this same name privately. Seeing that post "name-sniped" can prevent a scam.

Everyone who actively trades in the RSN market has a good idea about the whereabouts of sniped names/legitimacy through conversation, but a big starter point of conversation is viewing the name request/name price thread. Not everybody in the market talks to everybody and its unfair that people are going into name trades oblivious to a potential sniped name purely because they aren't friendly with the other traders or don't stalk name whereabouts viciously.

If somebody was seen to have a sniped name suspiciously people tend to track the origins of how they acquired the name and ask around rather than running to the report forum and bringing mod attention to it.

Name sales is shady enough without making it more lenient lol

 

The counter argument to this is that being able to claim a name was sniped without any proof is just as bad. Having a name seller state that "XYZ was sniped" will imply that it is now unsafe to purchase this name. Say I have purchased this name legitimately a month or two later after it has probably been resold a few times, and now wish to sell it. If there are claims floating around Sythe that the name has been previously sniped, I will have a much harder time selling it. Allowing these claims without substantial proof will make it much easier for name buyers/sellers to hurt each others' businesses.

The RSN section always has been and always will be the shadiest part of Sythe. There is no easy way to provide proof of a snipe, so these unsubstantiated claims likely won't be allowed. Its a good rule, in my opinion.

 

[Lozz]

The counter argument to this is that being able to claim a name was sniped without any proof is just as bad. Having a name seller state that "XYZ was sniped" will imply that it is now unsafe to purchase this name. Say I have purchased this name legitimately a month or two later after it has probably been resold a few times, and now wish to sell it. If there are claims floating around Sythe that the name has been previously sniped, I will have a much harder time selling it. Allowing these claims without substantial proof will make it much easier for name buyers/sellers to hurt each others' businesses.

The RSN section always has been and always will be the shadiest part of Sythe. There is no easy way to provide proof of a snipe, so these unsubstantiated claims likely won't be allowed. Its a good rule, in my opinion.

All you have to do is provide proof that you obtained the name legitimately. This is as simple as screenshotting a conversation. When I obtained a certain name that was listed in Josh's post on the name req thread that was listed as 'scammer' I pmed him saying that I was the new owner and provided a picture of the proof and it got changed from 'scammer' to 'active'.

Why do I feel like i'm the only person on here who takes pictures of every single transaction I conduct????? and why should people be put in risk purely because somebody will be accused of being a 'sniper' - nobody gets banned for sniping without really really really substancial proof also. Having somebody refuse to trade with you is far better than somebody repeatedly scamming with the same RSN every 3 months.

EDIT: A really good example is the name 'Eat' it was sniped in Dec 2015 and has been in legitimate trades for atleast 3 owners now. The name isnt permanently listed as a sniped name, its more of a guideline to give people an idea what not to purchase *soon after* a snipe. Also, again its confusing because if ur not involved in name sales you won't really grasp it, but everybody sort of has a rough idea of name ownership being transferred.

 

All you have to do is provide proof that you obtained the name legitimately. This is as simple as screenshotting a conversation. When I obtained a certain name that was listed in Josh's post on the name req thread that was listed as 'scammer' I pmed him saying that I was the new owner and provided a picture of the proof and it got changed from 'scammer' to 'active'.

Why do I feel like i'm the only person on here who takes pictures of every single transaction I conduct????? and why should people be put in risk purely because somebody will be accused of being a 'sniper' - nobody gets banned for sniping without really really really substancial proof also. Having somebody refuse to trade with you is far better than somebody repeatedly scamming with the same RSN every 3 months.

The burden of proof shouldn't be placed upon the new owner. My point (and the reason for the new rule) is that you aren't able to claim a name is sniped or in the possession of a scammer or anything other than "for sale" unless you have concrete evidence. Proper evidence of a snipe is very hard to come by, as has been stated several times in this thread.

Implications that a name that is for sale has been sniped without proof will hurt the seller's business. I wasn't suggesting there was the threat of a ban

 

As most of you probably know I'm one of the bigger name sellers.

My personal thought:

The name market is ruthless, and very sketchy. However, I agree that we shouldn't label names as sniped/scammer as those names move around alot and I have personally bought from those names on old op that said "scammer" as it had changed hands many times or the person was just being hated on.

As far as prooving a name was sniped.. it's impossible. As I'll say again the name sells section is ruthless

I don't think there is a fix personally and would just tell members trying to join name sells to be very careful.

I approve of the rule the higher mods made.

 

All you have to do is provide proof that you obtained the name legitimately. This is as simple as screenshotting a conversation. When I obtained a certain name that was listed in Josh's post on the name req thread that was listed as 'scammer' I pmed him saying that I was the new owner and provided a picture of the proof and it got changed from 'scammer' to 'active'.

Why do I feel like i'm the only person on here who takes pictures of every single transaction I conduct????? and why should people be put in risk purely because somebody will be accused of being a 'sniper' - nobody gets banned for sniping without really really really substancial proof also. Having somebody refuse to trade with you is far better than somebody repeatedly scamming with the same RSN every 3 months.

EDIT: A really good example is the name 'Eat' it was sniped in Dec 2015 and has been in legitimate trades for atleast 3 owners now. The name isnt permanently listed as a sniped name, its more of a guideline to give people an idea what not to purchase *soon after* a snipe. Also, again its confusing because if ur not involved in name sales you won't really grasp it, but everybody sort of has a rough idea of name ownership being transferred.

Picture/proof can be faked. Wouldn't help imo if a sniper is trying to sell a name he can just fake a convo and sell

 

The name market is no less than 99% autistic children. Leniency should be decreased, if anything.

There's no way to completely secure either side, because in the vast majority of sythe name trades it's just two 13 year olds trying to scam their mother's CC balance from each other.

Get over it.