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"Transgender" = mentally ill

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Spyder69

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http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

Personally, I agree with everything stated. Being "transgender" is indeed a mental illness, and should be treated as such, not appeased, as we've been seeing lately in the media with the "transgender" bathrooms.

For forty years as the University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School—twenty-six of which were also spent as Psychiatrist in Chief of Johns Hopkins Hospital—I’ve been studying people who claim to be transgender. Over that time, I’ve watched the phenomenon change and expand in remarkable ways.

In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder.

The treatment should strive to correct the false, problematic nature of the assumption and to resolve the psychosocial conflicts provoking it.

The larger issue is the meme itself. The idea that one’s sex is fluid and a matter open to choice runs unquestioned through our culture and is reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics. It has taken on cult-like features: its own special lingo, internet chat rooms providing slick answers to new recruits, and clubs for easy access to dresses and styles supporting the sex change. It is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges.
 
Arguing otherwise would be silly in regards to labeling it as an illness. I don't think that's the problem here, it's the identification, or rather classification which makes this topic problematic to speak on. How would you classify a male turned female or vice versa? Do we go by the sex of the person, or do we consider gender to have any relevance in deciding whether the person in question gets to do this or that? We thus cross the path of humane vs inhumane as the discussion turns to what transgender people are able to do because of the clash in different opinions. Understandably, there are problems that comes with allowing transgender people to use which ever bathroom they want, and there comes problems with disallowing that same privilege. You're looking at this from a logical perspective, neglecting emotion and opposing viewpoints. I'm indifferent on this because it's not straightforward and going by what you think is right, could also be wrong depending on how you look at the situation.
 
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Arguing otherwise would be silly in regards to labeling it as an illness. I don't think that's the problem here, it's the identification, or rather classification which makes this topic problematic to speak on. How would you classify a male turned female or vice versa? Do we go by the sex of the person, or do we consider gender to have any relevance in deciding whether the person in question gets to do this or that? We thus cross the path of humane vs inhumane as the discussion turns to what transgender people are able to do because of the clash in different opinions. Understandably, there are problems that comes with allowing transgender people to use which ever bathroom they want, and there comes problems with disallowing that same privilege. You're looking at this from a logical perspective, neglecting emotion and opposing viewpoints. I'm indifferent on this because it's not straightforward and going by what you think is right, could also be wrong depending on how you look at the situation.

The concept of "This bathroom is for penises, this bathroom is for vaginas" is toddler-level logic which doesn't have to be explained more than once.

Trans people attempt suicide at about 10 times the rate of the general populace. Pandering to their delusion (at the expense of everyone else's privacy) is not the way to treat their mental illness.
 
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The concept of "This bathroom is for penises, this bathroom is for vaginas" is toddler-level logic which doesn't have to be explained more than once.

Trans people attempt suicide at about 10 times the rate of the general populace. Pandering to their delusion (at the expense of everyone else's privacy) is not the way to treat their mental illness.

The problem here is simply looking at is a delusion, again looking at this from a logical perspective, neglecting emotion reduces the level of understanding that comes with dissecting complex situations. This isn't straightforward as a non-disabled person parking a car in a disabled persons lane because they think they're disabled as well. This is far more complex than you and many others make it out to be. If we regard a mind that opposes it's sex as an illness, and there are many cases which proves that theory to be true, then surely this isn't a hoax. I think the main concern here when it comes to allowing transgender people to use different bathrooms is the potential peeping or worse case scenario, sexual harassment by a non-transgender person. If we're being practical, someone who would go through those lengths will probably just go do that without pretending to be another gender. There are also other concerns regarding children, and honestly, I wouldn't let my child go to a public bathroom alone as it is currently, so I think we're just grasping at straws here. I'm still indifferent because of the complexity of the situation. I can see and understand the points on both sides, so I don't really care much for cementing a position that goes both ways as I'd just be contradicting myself.
 
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Before taking McHugh's words as gospel you might want to actual read all the rebuttals. McHugh is by far the minority when it comes to the medical community and many of his claims have been debunked.

Here's just two articles, listing all the rebuttals...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/fighting-back-against-ant_b_5633450.html

http://www.transadvocate.com/clingi...of-transgender-medical-literature_n_13842.htm

I thought this was particularly informative:

http://crystalgaze2.blogspot.com/2009/02/debunking-dr-paul-mchugh.html

McHugh's position flies in the face of research spanning close to twenty years before his decision to close the clinic at Johns Hopkins. It relies upon a single paper, which is deeply flawed:

Because this publication is cited frequently by the professional and lay literature it seems important to us to demonstrate extensively why the results of this work are not very enlightening and cannot support the conclusions derived from them.

The scoring system used by the authors is undifferentiated because it is, for example, not evident if an arrest happened because of cross-dressing or for real crimes; if the partnerships classified as gender-appropriate, resp., as nongender-appropriate were partnerships of operated that existed over the time period of the operation or they were entered into post-surgically; if they are living partnerships or sexual partnerships; if the surgical results permitted to have sexual intercourse or not and if the psychiatric contacts, resp., inpatient treatments, came about exclusively because of the persistent pursuit of the goal sex reassignment or happened because of other psychiatric illnesses. One does not learn, for example, if also the routine contacts to the care-providing psychiatrist are counted or not.

The valuing done by the authors is absurd because, for example, the gender of the partner with whom a patient lived was evaluated pre-, resp., post-surgically as opposite. A single who possibly was not capable of having a long-term relationship and not maintain it received a better score (0) than an MFT who had lived for years with a female friend (and had an intimate relationship?) and did this past the time period of the operation, but whose relation after the operation was evaluated as nongender-appropriate (-1). An inpatient psychiatric treatment was evaluated more negatively (-3) than a jail term (-2). The professional of plumber (Hollingshead job level 4) counted exactly as much as post-surgical "gender-appropriate marriage" (+2).
The tables and figures shared by the authors do not seem serious because after the scoring table a maximum of only eight minus and five plus points can be achieved, but in the results table (p. 1014) a range from -18 to +19 points is given. How these figures came about remains totally in the dark. The presumption made by Fleming et al. (1980) that every category could be scored multiple times, is negated by the following thought: It is imaginable that with a multiple evaluation a number of 18 minus points can come about - by three stationary psychiatric admittances (3 times -3) plus three jail terms (3 times -2) plus three "nongender-appropriate partnerships" (3 times -1). It is unfathomable, however, how 19 plus points can be achieved with the scoring system,unless by, for example, five gender appropriate marriages (5 times +2) plus three different academic professions (3 times +3) within a follow-up study period.
One asks the question how it came about that a renowned professional publication published such opaque figure material. Meyer & Reter considered the shared data for the, in a sense, most objective data of their sampling and left out as good as all subjective statements of the follow-up study. It is possible that there was more to be learned from them.

Not without a problem is also the use of the not-operated as a control group, especially because 40% (14 of 35) of the not-operated had surgery in the course of the follow-up study and the other 21, even if not very decided, further pursued the goal to be operated. If the operated, in the course of the follow-up study, were counted in the partial sample right away of the operated, the average follow-up study period would have been shortened. How the other results could have been changed by this cannot be fathomed; the authors do not have any comments or calculations for this (comp. the remarks to the publication by Edgertom & Meyer [1973] and the critiques by Fleming et al. [1980], Lothstein [1982] and Abramowitz [1986]).

In short, McHugh's conclusions are based on even more limited data about transsexuals than normal, and it is based on what are clearly very flawed methods for gathering and quantifying the raw data.

Not that i'm pro-transgender, but it's been proven to not be classified as a mental illness.

Anyway, i wouldn't want a transgender person in a bathroom with my son or daughter... They should have a transgender bathroom or something? (I'm aware that isn't logical or feasible)
 
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The problem here is simply looking at is a delusion, again looking at this from a logical perspective, neglecting emotion reduces the level of understanding that comes with dissecting complex situations. This isn't straightforward as a non-disabled person parking a car in a disabled persons lane because they think they're disabled as well. This is far more complex than you and many others make it out to be. If we regard a mind that opposes it's sex as an illness, and there are many cases which proves that theory to be true, then surely this isn't a hoax. ... I'm still indifferent because of the complexity of the situation.

Okay, how is the concept of "This bathroom is for penises, this bathroom is for vaginas" so complex?
 
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Are you familiar with the anatomies of male and female organisms?

Yes, although the images on the door typically reference gender since there isn't a sex symbol (♂/♀) on the door. Gender isn't a biological classification.
 
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To be "transgendered" implies a certain detachment from reality. A mental illness would be one way to put it certainly.

I'm not going to hate someone because of what they do with their own body, but I won't be going out of my way to facilitate their fantasies either.
 
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Again, you're not understanding. Your gender can be female, and your sex can be male. The symbol on the door references gender, not sex.
Define gender objectively and explain why "female" on a bathroom door references that a person whose sex is male is meant to be there.
 
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Define gender objectively and explain why "female" on a bathroom door references that a person whose sex is male is meant to be there.

gen·der - the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

I'm just saying the symbol on the door references gender, not sex, hence why "gender bathroom rules" are associated with bathrooms.
 
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gen·der - the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).

I'm just saying the symbol on the door references gender, not sex, hence why "gender bathroom rules" are associated with bathrooms.

The state of being male is having a penis. The state of being a female is having a vagina. This is culturally universal.
 
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The state of being male or female is culturally universal. Males have penises, females have vaginas, hence, when I asked you if you were aware of the anatomies of males and females.

Sex = male and female

Gender = masculine and feminine

The "state" of being a male is being masculine, and the "state" of being a female is feminine.

Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs.

Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.

So while your sex as male or female is a biological fact that is the same in any culture, what that sex means in terms of your gender role as a 'man' or a 'woman' in society can be quite different cross culturally. These 'gender roles' have an impact on the health of the individual.

In sociological terms 'gender role' refers to the characteristics and behaviours that different cultures attribute to the sexes. What it means to be a 'real man' in any culture requires male sex plus what our various cultures define as masculine characteristics and behaviours, likewise a 'real woman' needs female sex and feminine characteristics.

Source
 
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You must be joking. I'm not going to continually give you definitions that you can find yourself so you can prolong an unnecessary discussion to avoid 99% of the content I give you in a reply.
No: This is your argument-

-Male and Female bathrooms are not for Male sexed and Female sexed people
-Male and Female bathrooms are for people of Masculine and Feminine genders

How would I know if the person pissing in the urinal next to me is a Masculine gendered person or a Feminine gendered person? How would I know if I am a Masculine gendered person or a Feminine gendered person?

You haven't defined Masculine gender or Feminine gender, and that is REALLY necessary for your argument that bathrooms are supposed to be separated by gender.
 
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No: This is your argument-

-Male and Female bathrooms are not for Male sexed and Female sexed people
-Male and Female bathrooms are for people of Masculine and Feminine genders

How would I know if the person pissing in the urinal next to me is a Masculine gendered person or a Feminine gendered person? How would I know if I am a Masculine gendered person or a Feminine gendered person?

You haven't defined Masculine gender or Feminine gender, and that is REALLY necessary for your argument that bathrooms are supposed to be separated by gender.

No, I said the symbol on the door represents gender, not sex. Gender is a state of being a male or female.

State - the particular condition that someone or something is in at a specific time.

The sourced quote I gave was to show you the difference between gender and sex, because it seems you don't differentiate the two.

This is why your gender does not always correlate to your sex, or do you just not understand this?

Do you now want to know the definition of differentiate?
 
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