The thread disproves god entirely

[Fallen Soul]

I have seen that happen. I have also seen people who should have in every possible situation survived, die. Was this God watching out for them too? People live and people die. That's just the way it is.

Well, I think that everything happens for a reason, Thats why when they shouldn't have survived they did, and when they should have they didn't.

 

[dpunk]

Well, I think that everything happens for a reason, Thats why when they shouldn't have survived they did, and when they should have they didn't.

Good for you. Keep thinking that. It would be great if everything in this world had a purpose, everyone finds their prince/princess charming one day, and every action you take will ultimately have some cosmic worth, but sadly, the world isn't that kind of place. It's arbitrary. It cares not whether you think that things happen for a reason, things just happen. People who should be dead live because of a fluke in their body that allows them to dodge whatever condition that would normally deprive them of live, or because a misconception of the physicians diagnosing them makes their defect out to be worse than it is.

 

[Fallen Soul]

Good for you. Keep thinking that. It would be great if everything in this world had a purpose, everyone finds their prince/princess charming one day, and every action you take will ultimately have some cosmic worth, but sadly, the world isn't that kind of place. It's arbitrary. It cares not whether you think that things happen for a reason, things just happen. People who should be dead live because of a fluke in their body that allows them to dodge whatever condition that would normally deprive them of live, or because a misconception of the physicians diagnosing them makes their defect out to be worse than it is.

Its not a fairy tale situation. I am not saying that you will get what you want. Like who would want there family member to die? No one unless your sick in the head. But they do and that is how the world works but I think there is a meaning behind it. Such as, They die in a drunk driving accident and there parents get motivated to help the prevention of drinking and driving. Thats a good outcome not all are like that because people will sit and feel sorry for themselves.

 

[dpunk]

Its not a fairy tale situation. I am not saying that you will get what you want. Like who would want there family member to die? No one unless your sick in the head. But they do and that is how the world works but I think there is a meaning behind it.

And what part of what you just posted has any relevance to anything?

Such as, They die in a drunk driving accident and there parents get motivated to help the prevention of drinking and driving. Thats a good outcome not all are like that because people will sit and feel sorry for themselves.

That would be reactionary. People don't want others to die like their children did, so they take it upon themselves to help stop it. Seems like a normal meaningless situation to me. If my kid committed suicide, I feel as if I would be drawn to help other people out who's kid killed themselves. Is there meaning behind that? I see none. I see myself just wanting to help somebody.

 

[Annex]

Its not a fairy tale situation. I am not saying that you will get what you want. Like who would want there family member to die? No one unless your sick in the head. But they do and that is how the world works but I think there is a meaning behind it. Such as, They die in a drunk driving accident and there parents get motivated to help the prevention of drinking and driving. Thats a good outcome not all are like that because people will sit and feel sorry for themselves.

Question for you, How could god have created the universe when the first law of thermodynamics clearly states and is solidly proven that matter cannot be created or destroyed? Also, why is your god a standard, when there is no proof of his existence, but there is proof of evolution?

 

[Fallen Soul]

Correction it is not solidly proven that we have evovled, There is the law of You can not make nor destroy matter. Ok here we go....

Matter can not be made nor destroyed, But what about your spirit? Can you prove you have one? Or do you deny we have one? Because beyond our flesh there is something more.

I am getting tired though so I'll put it in simpler terms and explain more tomorrow.

God is all powerful, and without flaw. So a being such as god could do basically the impossible.

"Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernable laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force that is beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious." Einstein.

When Humans create Life, this will prove Life can be created. It doesn't have to evolve by mere chance.

 

[dpunk]

Correction it is not solidly proven that we have evovled,

It's as next to proven as something can be if it technically isn't.

Matter can not be made nor destroyed, But what about your spirit? Can you prove you have one? Or do you deny we have one? Because beyond our flesh there is something more.

Says who. I see nothing that gives me the idea that there is something other than my physical body.

God is all powerful, and without flaw. So a being such as god could do basically the impossible.

Could he make a rock that he could not move?

"Try and penetrate with our limited means the secrets of nature and you will find that, behind all the discernable laws and connections, there remains something subtle, intangible and inexplicable. Veneration for this force that is beyond anything that we can comprehend is my religion. To that extent I am, in fact, religious." Einstein.

Einstein didn't believe in any Theistic God, he was more of a Pantheist, so quoting him doesn't really help you're cause.

When Humans create Life, this will prove Life can be created. It doesn't have to evolve by mere chance.

Organic compounds aren't difficult to create. I think that one day we will be able to create a living organism.

 

[Fallen Soul]

Einstein didn't believe in any Theistic God, he was more of a Pantheist, so quoting him doesn't really help you're cause.

I am not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they were written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, seems to me is the altitude of even the most intelligent human towards God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand those laws." Einstein

Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas (fuel) into it. As I drive and drive, what is eventually going to happen? I am going to run out of gas! If the cosmos has been here forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is, however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe! Everywhere we look in space we can see the hydrogen 21-cm line in the spectrum--a piece of light only given off by hydrogen. This could not be unless we had a beginning!

A scientific proof that the atheist is wrong is seen in the second law of thermodynamics. In any closed system, things tend to become disordered. If an automobile is driven for years and years without repair, for example, it will become so disordered that it would not run any more. Getting old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also get old. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is "everything that ever was or is or ever will be," as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded.

The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

Thats all quotes from others I am getting tired of typing so I will use there explanation to help you see.

 

[dpunk]

I am not an atheist. I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they were written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, seems to me is the altitude of even the most intelligent human towards God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand those laws." Einstein

His belief is usually referred to as the "Einstienian God", but it resembles Pantheism.

Suppose I attempt to drive my automobile without putting any more gas (fuel) into it. As I drive and drive, what is eventually going to happen? I am going to run out of gas! If the cosmos has been here forever, we would have run out of hydrogen long ago! The fact is, however, that the sun still has 98% of its original hydrogen. The fact is that hydrogen is the most abundant material in the universe! Everywhere we look in space we can see the hydrogen 21-cm line in the spectrum--a piece of light only given off by hydrogen. This could not be unless we had a beginning!

Wrong.

Translated into practical units, every second the Sun converts 600 million metric tons of hydrogen into 596 million metric tons of helium and 4 million metric tons of mass into energy. This energy will diffuse to the surface, where it will supply the 3.83 x 1033 erg of energy radiated away into space each second. In its core the Sun has enough hydrogen to keep it shining for about 10 billion years. In 4.6 billion years the Sun has existed so far, it has used up about half its core's hydrogen supply and lost about 0.043 percent of its mass.

http://physics.gmu.edu/~jevans/astr103/CourseNotes/sun_interiorEnergyGeneration.html

A scientific proof that the atheist is wrong is seen in the second law of thermodynamics. In any closed system, things tend to become disordered. If an automobile is driven for years and years without repair, for example, it will become so disordered that it would not run any more. Getting old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also get old. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is "everything that ever was or is or ever will be," as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded.
The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

That would be an argument against the Big Bang Theory, not Atheism. Straw man arguments don't hold up well with people who can think.

 

[Fallen Soul]

Well, If you want to know where I get it all Heres the link Ill be back tomorrow to discuss. Take a look them base your opinion on that.

http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

 

[OldFinn]

Haha I loved this. It made me cackle all the way through, and I completely agree with the author, to be perfectly honest.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Just lay down some guidline here. Christianity is NOT a religion.

No, it's definitely a religion.

Christianity is a faith. Faith that someday our lord and saviour will come back to earth and save us and the revelations will begin.

Do you have any idea how many parts of Christianity were borrowed from other religions? Jesus was a "blood sacrifice"? Doesn't that sound like the religions of the ancients? What about consuming the body of Christ?

Also, people have been having faith for close to 2,000 years. I think it's time that you accepted that Jesus isn't coming back.

Look if your a christian, you know that anything that it can't be proven that god is real or if he isn't. It doesn't matter. Us Christians don't need to SEE or HEAR Jesus Christ to believe he's real. We have Faith that God/Jesus Christ is real.

So, you're going to completely ignore the input of your senses, and what your own intelligence tells you, so that you can continue to believe in something that you were probably raised to believe?

Did you know that if you were raised a Muslim, you would probably follow Islam with equal devotion that you now show towards Christianity? The same goes for Judaism, Hinduism, etc. This just shows that people's "faith" is nothing more than a desire to avoid letting go of something that they've had since their youth.

ShredderBeam to answer your question...Why didn't God find someone else to die on the cross? Jesus died on the cross. Jesus is God. Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God are one. It's kind of hard to explain so ask your local christian preacher or pastor. Anyway, God couldn't let a human take all that punishment on a human. All the world's paint, suffering, illness, every nasty thing you can ever thing of was a burden for Jesus Christ to carry until he died.

Wait, God is omnipotent, right? Why couldn't he have found a pain-free method of cleansing the entire world of sin?

And hold on, Jesus was crucified. Yes, it's painful, but it's not so painful that it can equal the suffering borne by absolutely everybody else in existence! What about the others who were crucified? Some were even crucified upside down! I think that others have experienced more pain than Jesus has.

And God has the right to do anything you wants dingbat. He's God!
And God isn't saying in christianity "follow me or burn in hell" hes just saying that if you don't believe. You cease existing. Hence what most athiests believe. You are born, you live, and you die and cease existing.

That's funny, because I remember reading in several places that you BURN FOR ETERNITY. It was very clear and non-ambiguous.

And to anyone who thinks hell is a burning pit where you burn and suffering for eternity, well, simply its not. Its just the absence of God. They just have to decribe it as a horrible place in the bible.

Or perhaps you are just replacing the more unsavory parts in the Bible with ones that better suit your liking?

B - Basic
I -Instructions
B -Before
L-Leaving
E -Earth

Brilliant instructions, to be written over the span of several thousand years, translated by imperfect man countless times, edited and voted upon by committees, etc.

You can neglect everything and anything I say here. It's your choice. We are only on the Earth or a short number of years before we pass on for the next generations. What you do over the next 100 years or for however longer you will be on this earth will determine what you'll be doing for the next eternity.

I can just as easily say this: What you do during this life doesn't matter. There is nothing after this life, and believing that there is doesn't make it so.

Just saying something doesn't make it true.


Actually, heaven is nothing but a place where all Earthly desires are gone, where brothers, sisters, wives, friends all disappear, and all you are is just a strong love of God. For eternity. What a party, eh?

 

[Spereff]

That question should answer itself since you did in fact preface it with "So, as an atheist...".

Then just answer it for me.

No Not at all.

Having faith that you can do something has no correlation on whether or it is possible for you to do it. Believing that you can do something is close to faith. Knowing that you can do something entails that the scientific process has been invoked consciously or subconsciously, meaning that you have gathered evidence and came to the logical conclusion that you're hypothesis is true. Faith=believing without evidence. Knowing=believing with evidence. Complete opposites.

Yeah, true. Yet, we still base our faith on God, because we have experiences and other "things" that occur to us, that is different to someone else. Do you have evidence that there is no God here? There has been no evidence that has been proven to the world that there is no God. Yet, same for the other way. Personally, I believe in God due to things that happen to me, and because the knowledge I "know" about God is real to me.

I have seen that happen. I have also seen people who should have in every possible situation survived, die. Was this God watching out for them too? People live and people die. That's just the way it is.

God watches for everyone. Of course. That's one of the things he does. BUT, can God let everyone survive? Is this a kind of world we live in? Do we live in a world of only good, and survival? No, we live in a world of equality. God makes things happen, like some people say..."Everything happens for a reason." God has to put death in the world, no matter at what time of age for someone. And as your last point...exactly true. People LIVE and DIE, that's just the way it is. And then, they move onto heaven or hell.

 

[Fallen Soul]

No I dont believe Heaven is like that. I believe that you are with all the people you love and the ones that went to hell god inmplements the feeling of understanding of why or maybe you even forget they existed. But I am tired of these kids coming and posting here and have hardley a clue of what god is like then you debate them on that and act as if all christains think that way.

 

[dpunk]

No I dont believe Heaven is like that. I believe that you are with all the people you love and the ones that went to hell god inmplements the feeling of understanding of why or maybe you even forget they existed. But I am tired of these kids coming and posting here and have hardley a clue of what god is like then you debate them on that and act as if all christains think that way.

So you're saying that God messes with you're mind? If you lose memories then you really are not the same person as you were before. Everything we are is because of past experiences. Even with a feeling of understanding there still will be sadness.

 

[Fallen Soul]

So you're saying that God messes with you're mind? If you lose memories then you really are not the same person as you were before. Everything we are is because of past experiences. Even with a feeling of understanding there still will be sadness.

Yeah, idk know about heaven because I have never been there. But I doubt its humanly comprehensible.

 

[dpunk]

Yeah, true. Yet, we still base our faith on God, because we have experiences and other "things" that occur to us, that is different to someone else. Do you have evidence that there is no God here? There has been no evidence that has been proven to the world that there is no God. Yet, same for the other way. Personally, I believe in God due to things that happen to me, and because the knowledge I "know" about God is real to me.

Shifting the initial burden of proof to ask the nonbeliever for evidence against the evidence-less notion is a logical fallacy. It isn't necessary to disprove something that has never had any valid evidence given for it in the first place.

God watches for everyone. Of course. That's one of the things he does. BUT, can God let everyone survive? Is this a kind of world we live in? Do we live in a world of only good, and survival? No, we live in a world of equality.

Yes God can let everyone survive, he's omnipotent.

God makes things happen, like some people say..."Everything happens for a reason." God has to put death in the world, no matter at what time of age for someone. And as your last point...exactly true. People LIVE and DIE, that's just the way it is. And then, they move onto heaven or hell.

God doesn't have to do anything. He could remove death from this world in an instant. He could remove suffering from this world in an instant, and yet he doesn't. He could show himself to the world and make everyone a believer in an instant, and yet he doesn't. It seems that God doesn't do much.

 

[Fallen Soul]

God doesn't have to do anything. He could remove death from this world in an instant. He could remove suffering from this world in an instant, and yet he doesn't. He could show himself to the world and make everyone a believer in an instant, and yet he doesn't. It seems that God doesn't do much.

People Create suffering. Drugs and Violence Create Suffering, not god. The reason he doesnt just make everything easy street is because thats where taking responsibility for you actions comes in.

 

[dpunk]

People Create suffering. Drugs and Violence Create Suffering, not god. The reason he doesnt just make everything easy street is because thats where taking responsibility for you actions comes in.

What about suffering caused by nature? God has complete control of nature, and yet he allows tsunamis to kill thousands of people. No responsibility for that rests with man.

 

[Shredderbeam]

People Create suffering. Drugs and Violence Create Suffering, not god. The reason he doesnt just make everything easy street is because thats where taking responsibility for you actions comes in.

Yet God knows beforehand that they will do this. In fact, he made them specifically so they would do it. Why?