The Quran and science

[Shredderbeam]

It wasn't translated word for word. The original expression was something vaguely similar to "the ends of the Earth".

 

[the_wippit]

wow thats really kinda creepy (while i dont beleive in the big bang theroy) its amazing that that theroy was beleived 1400 years before it was considered a scientific theroy

 

[Krypton6]

It wasn't translated word for word. The original expression was something vaguely similar to "the ends of the Earth".

I´ve never heard of an expression talking about the world corners, perhaps you could give me the exact words of what is written in the quote of the bibel.

I cannot imagine those words being used as an expression in regard of the last days of earth.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I´ve never heard of an expression talking about the world corners, perhaps you could give me the exact words of what is written in the quote of the bibel.

I cannot imagine those words being used as an expression in regard of the last days of earth.

Elihu, 13:3 "Under the whole heaven he lets it loose, and his lightning to the corners of the earth."

I did not mean the end of the Earth. "The ends of the Earth" is an expression that meant, literally, the edge of the Earth (when people thought the Earth was flat). Today, people still use the expression, but to mean "really far away".

 

[Krypton6]

"Under the whole heaven he lets it loose, and his lightning to the corners of the earth."

"And his lightning to the corners of the earth" COME ONE! Its so obvius....

 

[Shredderbeam]

"Under the whole heaven he lets it loose, and his lightning to the corners of the earth."

"And his lightning to the corners of the earth" COME ONE! Its so obvius....

It's been translated from many different languages, you know. They picked the phrase that meant approximately the same thing. The four corners of the Earth means to the ends of the Earth. It is not a reference to literal corners.

 

[Krypton6]

Only the people who wrote it would know, and from what it seems to me without having other people translating on their strange ways, it says that earth is flat.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Only the people who wrote it would know, and from what it seems to me without having other people translating on their strange ways, it says that earth is flat.

The translation would say that, but in the original context, that's not what it says at all.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

No shredderbeam. Things that are toxic, most definitely just do not get excreted. Because that would mean that if I had some arsenic mixed in with some food, I would extract all the nutrients from the food, and simply excrete the arsenic? Yeah, right. You keep telling yourself that.

By the way, mesenchymal tissues does not equal brain stem cells. Mesenchymal tissues = undifferentiated tissue composed of branching cells embedded in a coagulable fluid matrix(www.answers.com).

Also, the article states that most people DO NOT COOK IT ENOUGH TO GET RID OF THESE WORMS. Just thought I would highlight that for you.

Besides, if you got a better explanation for how this world works, I challenge you to write a better book than that of the Quran. I swear on my life that it is impossible.

 

[Shredderbeam]

No shredderbeam. Things that are toxic, most definitely just do not get excreted. Because that would mean that if I had some arsenic mixed in with some food, I would extract all the nutrients from the food, and simply excrete the arsenic? Yeah, right. You keep telling yourself that.

You're obviously not going to excrete arsenic. Is that something you encounter in daily life? Is your body reasonably going to be able to handle it? I think not, unless you ingest tiny amounts of it periodically to build up a sort of "tolerance" to it, at which point, it will not affect you.

Most things in animal tissue that are unhealthy do not just remain in your circulatory system, you know. They may stay there for some time, but they can be filtered out by the kidneys.

By the way, mesenchymal tissues does not equal brain stem cells. Mesenchymal tissues = undifferentiated tissue composed of branching cells embedded in a coagulable fluid matrix(www.answers.com).

Which is exactly what brain stem cells are.

Also, the article states that most people DO NOT COOK IT ENOUGH TO GET RID OF THESE WORMS. Just thought I would highlight that for you.

Do they not? Is there a source on that? Does it mean that every single time that people eat pork, it's undercooked, or does it mean that most people will, at one point in their lives, eat undercooked pork? If the former, then there are certainly a lot of people wandering around with worms and parasites, yet we never hear anything about this.

Also, if they fail to cook it properly, I would attribute the fault to them. If you fail to cook just about any type of meat properly, it will likely get you sick.

Besides, if you got a better explanation for how this world works, I challenge you to write a better book than that of the Quran. I swear on my life that it is impossible.

I would hardly consider the literary quality of an ancient text proof as to it's divine authenticity.

 

[The Don Kiluminati]

The bible says allot of the same things.....It describes things that happened in the words of people 2000 years ago, jesus came and he created the new testament as told. Then they had revised the bible into different versions all saying the same thing just wording them differently for certain people, there are still versions of the original text.

According to that article, the bible has been changed over generations many times, even today they change the words of the bible, and the quran is still the same words from 14 centuries ago.

ps. bob got owned.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

Shredder, you don't have to accept it as the divine word. That's your choice. But it is my right to prove what is right, and what is most definitely correct in the Quran.

As for tolerance, it's hard to believe that you can build up a tolerance of arsenic. That would mean that I can take anything toxic, and simply take little bits of it at a time until it doesn't effect me. That may be true for alcohol, but definitely not arsenic.

The kidneys can only filter out so much. So what happens what your kidney doesn't filter correctly?

 

[Shredderbeam]

Shredder, you don't have to accept it as the divine word. That's your choice. But it is my right to prove what is right, and what is most definitely correct in the Quran.

Certainly, you have the right to.

As for tolerance, it's hard to believe that you can build up a tolerance of arsenic. That would mean that I can take anything toxic, and simply take little bits of it at a time until it doesn't effect me. That may be true for alcohol, but definitely not arsenic.

There was a murder case re-opened a few years ago where that did happen. I'll try to find a source on that.

The kidneys can only filter out so much. So what happens what your kidney doesn't filter correctly?

If you're one of the few people whose kidneys don't work correctly, you stand a good chance of dying.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

Lol. That's not true either, there are kidney transplants. And you still haven't answered my question...

 

[Shredderbeam]

Lol. That's not true either, there are kidney transplants. And you still haven't answered my question...

On your own, without the help of modern medicine, if your kidneys stop working correctly, you will probably die.

That was the only question I found in your last post.

 

[WhereIsTheGod]

Shredder, you don't have to accept it as the divine word. That's your choice. But it is my right to prove what is right, and what is most definitely correct in the Quran.

Just started on this topic, so forgive me if what I say was already countered.

Doesn't it say in the Quran that the only reason birds fly is because of the will of God?

 

[Titan]

Hello
I found this topic very interesting so I have decided to post. After reading that article, since I'm a muslim, my belief in god has tremendously increased and I certainly have more faith in my religion now. Shredder- your arguments are baseless. Pigs are unclean and very dirty. They cause diseases and it has been proven. Pork is also a big source of fat and we all know the negative effects of obeisness. Shredder, you say that the flesh of a pig can become clean if it goes through correct cooking procedures, but why the hell should people waste their time cleaning very dirty and morbid meat, while they can buy beef or chicken which is clean and can be cooked instantly. If the reason why pork is haram in Islam is still uncertain to you then lets try alcohol and drugs. Alcohol and drugs are banned in Islam too because of mostly the same reasons as why pork is, now look at all the bad effects of alcohol and drugs that science has proved today. Islam knew this and talked about it 1400 years ago! Truly Islam is the correct religion and the Qur'an is the word of Allah! Personally, if someone told me about alcohol and why it is banned and they are right , I would go with them on the pork issue too.

The Holy Qu'ran's opinions and scientific views are not just guesses, the prophet Mohammad was illiterate, he could not even read or write so how could he talk about science? Why wouldn't or couldn't other individuals guess those facts about the world at that time? We have only come to know about our world recently with the advancements of science and technology. Truly, the Qu'ran is the word of Allah who created this universe and all living things and we all live under his dominion in acceptance or in denial of the great one.

One of the greatest things about Islam is that it includes all the three Abrahamic religions. Islam addresses these religions and their respective times which they were present, the times when these religions were acceptable and valid to follow, the times when Christianity and Judaism weren't altered and changed. Islam also mentions that the name of Mohammad was both in The Bible and The Torah, how he would come, guide the people, and how he would be the last prophet, how he would recieve The Qu'ran and how the Christians and Jews were to submit to him. But this did not happen, the Jewish and Chrstian scholars changed both the Bible and The Torah. Today, the believers of Christianity and Judaism are nothing but non-believers, disobeying the words of their creator and doing sins banned by their god and for the non-believers await a fate too terrible to even think of.

A great site for Islam is: www.irf.net - it has great Islamic information and answers most of your questions.




(I could have continued but the post would have been too long so the ending is pretty weak )

 

[own|p1ck]

Very very very interesting..

 

[Shredderbeam]

Shredder- your arguments are baseless.

I think not.

Pigs are unclean and very dirty. They cause diseases and it has been proven.

Evidence. Now.

Pork is also a big source of fat and we all know the negative effects of obeisness.[/quote]

Indeed, although cholesterol is more of a concern. It shouldn't be a problem if you don't eat it too much.

Shredder, you say that the flesh of a pig can become clean if it goes through correct cooking procedures, but why the hell should people waste their time cleaning very dirty and morbid meat

Because that makes it fit to eat.

while they can buy beef or chicken which is clean and can be cooked instantly.

Neither beef nor chicken can be cooked "instantly.

Most people tend to be very, very sick if they don't cook ANY meat they eat, with fish being an exception.

Alcohol and drugs are banned in Islam too because of mostly the same reasons as why pork is, now look at all the bad effects of alcohol and drugs that science has proved today.

Yet alcohol and drugs in moderation are not harmful. To excess, certainly, and when used idiotically (drinking and driving), but so is everything else.

Islam knew this and talked about it 1400 years ago! Truly Islam is the correct religion and the Qur'an is the word of Allah!

Whoa! Mohammad realized that alcohol + more alcohol = stupid behavior + hangover! Clearly, the ENTIRETY of Islam is correct based upon this one principle.

The Holy Qu'ran's opinions and scientific views are not just guesses, the prophet Mohammad was illiterate, he could not even read or write so how could he talk about science?

Perhaps it was common knowledge?

Why wouldn't or couldn't other individuals guess those facts about the world at that time? We have only come to know about our world recently with the advancements of science and technology. Truly, the Qu'ran is the word of Allah who created this universe and all living things and we all live under his dominion in acceptance or in denial of the great one.

I think we've known for a very long time that those who constantly eat pork, drink alcohol, etc., tend to have poor health.

the Jewish and Chrstian scholars changed both the Bible and The Torah.

Did they? What evidence is there of this?

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

Shredderbeam, in all of the past attempts to prove that pig meat is bad for your health, you have always replied in ways that included how much you should eat of pig, how you should cook it, and if you do this, you won't get that, and how most people don't do that. That justifies that the intrinsic wellness of a pig, is plain out--shit. You gotta cook it a certain way or else you can get intoxicated, or you can get a worm. You gotta eat a certain amount of it or else you will get fat, and your chlolesterol will increase unnaturally. See how limited you are of pig consumption?

Actually drugs and alcohol used in ANY WAY are, in fact, harmful. There is no moderation of the usage of drugs and alcohol. It's all bad. You smoke 1 pack of cigarettes a day, or 2 packs a day, you are still ruining your lungs. You drink 1 shot of alcohol, or 3 shots of alcohol, you are still running a risk of permanently damaging your liver. Because over a period of time, nothing is in moderation.

Here is a part of the article on why pig is forbidden. This is proof, so don't ask for more, look for more yourself if you'd like.
source: http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html

"Bad effects of pork consumption

Pig's bodies contain many toxins, worms and latent diseases. Although some of these infestations are harbored in other animals, modern veterinarians say that pigs are far more predisposed to these illnesses than other animals. This could be because pigs like to scavenge and will eat any kind of food, including dead insects, worms, rotting carcasses, excreta (including their own), garbage, and other pigs.

Influenza (flu) is one of the most famous illnesses which pigs share with humans. This illness is harbored in the lungs of pigs during the summer months and tends to affect pigs and humans in the cooler months. Sausage contains bits of pigs' lungs, so those who eat pork sausage tend to suffer more during epidemics of influenza. Pig meat contains excessive quantities of histamine and imidazole compounds, which can lead to itching and inflammation; growth hormone, which promotes inflammation and growth; sulphur-containing mesenchymal mucus, which leads to swelling and deposits of mucus in tendons and cartilage, resulting in arthritis, rheumatism, etc.

Sulfur helps cause firm human tendons and ligaments to be replaced by the pig's soft mesenchymal tissues, and degeneration of human cartilage. Eating pork can also lead to gallstones and obesity, probably due to its high cholesterol and saturated fat content. The pig is the main carrier of the taenia solium worm, which is found it its flesh. These tapeworms are found in human intestines with greater frequency in nations where pigs are eaten. This type of tapeworm can pass through the intestines and affect many other organs, and is incurable once it reaches beyond a certain stage. One in six people in the US and Canada has trichinosis from eating trichina worms which are found in pork. Many people have no symptoms to warn them of this, and when they do, they resemble symptoms of many other illnesses. These worms are not noticed during meat inspections, nor are they killed by salting or smoking. Few people cook the meat long enough to kill the trichinae. The rat (another scavenger) also harbors this disease. There are dozens of other worms, germs, diseases and bacteria which are commonly found in pigs, many of which are specific to the pig, or found in greater frequency in pigs.

Pigs are biologically similar to humans, and their meat is said to taste similar to human flesh. Pigs have been used for dissection in biology labs due to the similarity between their organs and human organs. People with insulin-dependent diabetes usually inject themselves with pig insulin."

Proves my point. Onto a new point you would like to debate, shall we?

EDIT: Here are the references for the excerpt above:
References:
"Animals in Islam", by Al-Hafiz B.A. Masri,
"Diet for a New America", by John Robbins,
"Islamic Dietary Laws and Practices", by M.M. Hussaini, M.S. and A.H. Sakr, Ph.D.
"Homotoxicology", by Dr. Hans-Heinrich Reckweg
"Muslims in Alien Society", by Muhammad Samiallah