The Quran and science

[The Supreme Intelligence]

Shredder, I actually didn't relate your religious ignorance with the the process of learning a new language- you did. Don't start jumping to conclusions with me.

That makes COMPLETE NONSENSE. "yo dude, did you know if you drink, you'll like longer than if you dont?" you know something that stupid, with no medical proof whatsoever, should be thrown in the trash along with the person who said it. You go and drink, see how long you live, and what type of life you will live.

 

[WhereIsTheGod]

Shredder, I actually didn't relate your religious ignorance with the the process of learning a new language- you did. Don't start jumping to conclusions with me.

That makes COMPLETE NONSENSE. "yo dude, did you know if you drink, you'll like longer than if you dont?" you know something that stupid, with no medical proof whatsoever, should be thrown in the trash along with the person who said it. You go and drink, see how long you live, and what type of life you will live.

Why don't Muslims have the highest life expectancies in the world then, if the Quran is so medically sound?

 

[Shredderbeam]

Shredder, I actually didn't relate your religious ignorance with the the process of learning a new language- you did. Don't start jumping to conclusions with me.

I actually didn't. My language skills are oriented towards Latin-based languages, with the A-Z alphabet, common word structure, etc. I see no reason to learn an entirely new language for the purposes of reading a book.

That makes COMPLETE NONSENSE. "yo dude, did you know if you drink, you'll like longer than if you dont?" you know something that stupid, with no medical proof whatsoever, should be thrown in the trash along with the person who said it. You go and drink, see how long you live, and what type of life you will live.

No medical proof?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16173568/
http://www.news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=303425
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070131083345AAHSQsn&show=7
http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20070228/wine-drinkers-may-live-longer

So much for alcohol being a sin.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

It is a sin. And along with that proof, is the probability of an alcoholic addiction. And I DARE you, to prove to me that alcohol isn't good for your liver.

You actually did. Look at your previous post. That's what I understood from your implied meaning.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Well, if I did, that was not my meaning.

If the Quran states that it is a sin, then yes, it remains a sin. The impact of alcohol on your body does not change the words of the Quran.

Estimates for alcoholism generally run from about 5-15% of the United States population. However, I do not know if they refer to people who are currently alcoholics, or once were, and I do not know how they define alcoholism. They could define it as drinking slightly too much per week, or drinking far too much. In any case, even if there is a risk for alcoholism, what of the people who don't become alcoholics?

The liver is essentially the body's filter. When it metabolizes alcohol, this does not seem to cause much damage. It is when the liver is constantly demanded to metabolize much more alcohol than it should that toxins can build up, and cause scarring.

 

[The Supreme Intelligence]

Constantly can be defined in many, many different ways. One meaning repeatedly after one another, or constantly meaning over a period of time. I define an alcoholic as anyone who drinks alcohol, not necessarily who abuses it, but drinks it regularly.

You need to learn more about the effects of alcohol on the liver. Don't assume about it due to the limited knowledge you have about the subject.

 

[WhereIsTheGod]

It isn't just the effects of alcohol in the liver.

ANYTHING that goes through your liver can be applied here.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Constantly can be defined in many, many different ways. One meaning repeatedly after one another, or constantly meaning over a period of time. I define an alcoholic as anyone who drinks alcohol, not necessarily who abuses it, but drinks it regularly.

When I say constantly, I mean at a rate that the liver cannot handle, perhaps that of an alcoholic.

And, when I say alcoholic, I mean the most commonly accepted definition:

[SIZE=-1]A disease in which a person craves alcohol, is unable to limit his or her drinking, needs to drink greater amounts to get the same effect, and has withdrawal symptoms after stopping alcohol use. Alcoholism affects physical and mental health, and causes problems with family, friends and work.

Drinking regularly does not make you an alcoholic. If you were unable to stop drinking, or experienced detox symptoms, etc., then that would be alcoholism.
[/SIZE]

You need to learn more about the effects of alcohol on the liver. Don't assume about it due to the limited knowledge you have about the subject.

Damage to the liver only occurs if you consume more than your liver can handle.

http://www.liverfoundation.org/education/info/alcohol/

Even then, for significant damage to occur, you must drink to excess quite a bit.

 

[Krypton6]

Why don't Muslims have the highest life expectancies in the world then, if the Quran is so medically sound?

Simply because muslims or while we are there asians generally do not think about what they eat. They eat what they like and feel like eating, unlike the westerns who eat healthy and all that kind of crap food.

Also due to the weather in the south, and followed by it the dirty water and restricted acces to it. There are many logical reasons for why muslims seem to die at a younger age than westerns. I just gave you two.

Schredder regarding this alcohol discussion: If the danger of drinking is there and exists, what the quran states about drinking is thereby and then already justified.

 

[Shredderbeam]

The danger is small, and obvious, from life experiences. If you become addicted, it's your own fault. Should every substance with dangers be prohibited? "Eat not of broccoli, for it produceth the toxin, which poisoneth the child".

 

[Krypton6]

The danger is not small but not massive either, anyways do you expect a religion to state that thus who drink wisely should be allowed to and those who do not should not be allowed to drink?


That would make the people form the religion instead of it forming them, therefore the only logical solution is to ban it for all. Its not like the prohibition harms the people ..

And aperantly the "small" risk of drinking that you believe in, actully has an massive influence and impact to humans, proved by the masses of alcoholics.

 

[Shredderbeam]

So, what, because of those who cannot handle it, ban it for everybody? How logical.

 

[WhereIsTheGod]

Simply because muslims or while we are there asians generally do not think about what they eat. They eat what they like and feel like eating, unlike the westerns who eat healthy and all that kind of crap food.

Also due to the weather in the south, and followed by it the dirty water and restricted acces to it. There are many logical reasons for why muslims seem to die at a younger age than westerns. I just gave you two.

Schredder regarding this alcohol discussion: If the danger of drinking is there and exists, what the quran states about drinking is thereby and then already justified.

Well, I'm not talking about Muslims versus Westerners, I'm comparing two groups of people in the same area, but with different religions. You have the same weather, and the same water.

Middle East compared to Western though - there's no comparison. I agree there.

 

[Krypton6]

Well, I'm not talking about Muslims versus Westerners, I'm comparing two groups of people in the same area, but with different religions. You have the same weather, and the same water.

Middle East compared to Western though - there's no comparison. I agree there.

Muslims come from a harsh and tough world where people dont think about wether what they eat is healthy or unhealthy for them, they have much more important stuff to think about such as feeding their children and taking care of their family.

The westerns come from a world where everything is given to them. You will never see poor people as those you see in africa, in the west, ut in the middle east and asia such thing is more commen and normal.

Now when a Muslim moves to the west, he might change the way he speak but he will and cannot change the way he is, and after having bin through the worst back in his home country I doubt that he will ever think about the smallest most stupid small things such as eating healthy.
Through out generations you will notice that the avarage death age for muslims in the west will reach near the western if not further, it is only a matter of adabting to the non struggling western enviromment.

Muslims and westerns are the same as slaves and kings.

 

[WhereIsTheGod]

So then, are you saying that the "sin" of alcohol is a stupid small thing?

After all, you have more on your mind than trying to be healthy.

Regardless - the point I was making (if you can even call it that) wasn't about westerners - it was about Israelis.

Same region. Overall, same troubles.

 

[Krypton6]

What I say does not change my faith and religion...

The sin of alcohol is not a stupid thing since it harms your body much more than the most unhealthy food could ever do to a human body. Not only does it harm your body, but you will also lose controle of your selve, and become a potential danger and threat for the society and mankind.

There are many things that alcohol does to your body of which the most unhealthy food does not.

The state of israel is suported by the west.
When the zionists and imperialists slaughtered the palestinians and stole their lands in may 1948, they immediately started rebuilding the stolen lands after having bulldozed nearly all former palestinian houses and properties (some times with people still inside).

The started rebuilding the stolen lands while bombing palestinian houses and killing palestinians. It is not a hidden fact that Palestine is a extremely poor nation and country. Most houses do not have electricity, runing clean water, and most people do not even have enough money for a proper meal.

On the other hand israelis have the exact same condition as westerns, so there is no way for you to look at israel as were the living conditions poor there.

 

[Shredderbeam]

The sin of alcohol is not a stupid thing since it harms your body much more than the most unhealthy food could ever do to a human body. Not only does it harm your body, but you will also lose controle of your selve, and become a potential danger and threat for the society and mankind.

Actually, there are worse things. For example, if you eat pork every night, you will probably need cardiac bypass surgery. If you have a drink every night, however, you'll just live a bit longer.

You lose control of yourself because it lowers your inhibitions, and that only to a dangerous level if you have much too much.

There are many things that alcohol does to your body of which the most unhealthy food does not.

Oh, like what?

 

[Krypton6]

And pork hapends to be banned in islam. At least pork does not directly make you lose controle of your own body and mind.

I dont know, I have never really studied alcohol, but alcohol is one of the worst things you can consume if not the worst.

I highly doubt that alcohol can make you live longer, only 1 type of alcohol that I know about can make you live a bit longer, and that is red wine or white or what ever. And even wine is adicting, and consuming alot of it gives the same effect and impact to your body as were it beer or any other alcohol source.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Pork is only harmful if consumed a lot.

If you have not studied alcohol, on what basis do you pronounce that it's so harmful?

 

[Krypton6]

Well regarding the pork thing, we return to the acid/blood thing justefying the ban if you ask me. Diseases could be transfered through the blood, and all sort of other things that I do not have time to look up right now, since my dad will be home any sec and kill me if im not at sleep.

Im not interested in a drink that I do not consume, but I am talking out from what nonmuslim docs have stated.