External IM Verification Tool

Discussion in 'Approved Suggestions' started by SuF, Jun 24, 2014.

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External IM Verification Tool
  1. Unread #21 - Jun 25, 2014 at 10:12 PM
  2. Abarta
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    What about this? :D
     
  3. Unread #22 - Jun 25, 2014 at 10:13 PM
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    Can you provide a link to where I 'shut down' someone offering to build a desktop application for sythechat?
     
  5. Unread #23 - Jun 25, 2014 at 10:22 PM
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    Curious: why would a facebook type chat make sythe.org slow? Facebook isn't slow so there's a way out there to make it not hinder site browsing.
     
  7. Unread #24 - Jun 25, 2014 at 10:24 PM
  8. SuF
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    There is a good explanation in the SytheChat suggestion thread.
     
  9. Unread #25 - Jun 25, 2014 at 10:45 PM
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    Facebook is way slow on every laptop I've used it on. You probably don't notice on a desktop machine. We might still trial it to see how it goes as suggested above.
     
  11. Unread #26 - Jun 25, 2014 at 11:07 PM
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    Try it on a macbook pro.

    But seriously why can't you just add make sure you get a pm or make it mandatory to get a pm? Solve so many problems.
     
  13. Unread #27 - Jun 25, 2014 at 11:16 PM
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    You can maybe just have it be disabled, but "there" to where people notice it, and then they can enable it. If it's a server usage issue, I can offer a VPS the system can be hosted on.

    As for the desktop application, it'd still be useful. That's the main thing SytheChat is missing: an easy way to always be online. Is there no way to make it "save" the 2FA code securely with a "remember me" option at least as long as you do not close the application? I doubt people would care about logging in ONCE per day they're on the computer. They're going to get on Sythe anyway so they can grab their code.

    And by the way, Facebook isn't slow on anything for me. I've even used it on my Chromebook. Could this possibly be an isolated issue for Australian users?

    If anything, you can also have an in-line CSS instead or iFrame of some sort that can open/close, however, it'd be nice if it didn't reset every time a user navigated from a page to another to open/closed it. I think I created something like this but I took it down after being inactive for a while. It worked out pretty good. It was just way too large for it to be integrated, so it'd need some design changes, and it was annoying because it kept connecting/disconnecting.
     
  15. Unread #28 - Jun 26, 2014 at 12:00 AM
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    I assume you're referring to the facebook-type chatbar with this. No it doesnt add any additional strain on the server. Openfire XMPP can easily handle thousands of simultaneous connections and users. This issue is the speed of page loads for the end user. Sythe isn't browsed the same way facebook is. When a user loads a facebook page they may spend a good 10 minutes on the one page. Sythe.org users spend about 30 seconds between pageloads. The overhead of loading a chat client and connecting to a backend server can send the page load time from say 1.5-2 seconds to 5-10 seconds.

    Sure I can modify it (the way server login occurs) any way I want. But we need to make sure it's secure. Once a day might be a good solution.

    I think you'll find any sort of iframe solution is better as a separate window.

    Anyway I'm going to have another look at cometchat and see if we might be able to do something with it.
     
  17. Unread #29 - Jun 26, 2014 at 12:51 AM
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    I notice what you mean now. But can't you make it load last just like Facebook makes the chat load last? Also Facebook makes it to where the chat remains loaded the entire time if you browse within Facebook itself. This would be neat too. Especially if it's on the side just like Facebook. If anything, you can make chat windows "pop up" from this if having multiple chat windows on a bottom bar messes with this lag.

    Users won't mind waiting 5+ seconds for a chat on the side to load once, especially if they have larger monitors or can enable/disable it and it auto-hides if your window isn't large enough, and if everything else loads first.
     
  19. Unread #30 - Jun 26, 2014 at 2:12 AM
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    Would require a bottom up rewrite of vbulletin to make it a web2.0 app like you suggest.

    Even if the chat loads last users who don't want to use the chat or are just browsing will have to put up with an additional 5 seconds of browser loading behaviour. Sythe needs to be fast and easy to browse or people will stop using it. There is significant evidence that the speed of websites is proportional to their general usage. People like things to be quick. Further, google actually penalizes on the basis of site speed.

    To make the chat-loads-once idea is basically impossible without using some sort of iframe setup, but iframes are being phased out of all modern browsers, and it generally isn't a good solution. The essential problem comes down to connections. No matter which way it's done the chat client on the user's end needs to re-establish a connection to the chat server via some mechanism every time a page loads AND this needs to be done after javascript has completed loading and has been executed on the page. This inevitably adds significant page loadtime. All TCP connections have a minimum handshake time and transmission delay not to mention TCP slow-start.

    But these are technical problems and we can probably find technical solutions that will work. I'm just pointing out (again) that it's not all as simple as people envision.

    What I might do is talk to cometchat people a bit and see what we are authorized to do with their product if we buy it. Modify it to suit our setup. Then roll that out as an opt-in beta and see just how bad it is/isn't. From there we can look at ways to mitigate the connection delay problem.
     
  21. Unread #31 - Jun 26, 2014 at 2:36 AM
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    Interestingly google have been on the case of this problem for a while and are developing/have developed a protocol called QUIC based on UDP rather than TCP. It's in the latest version of google chrome but is off by default. I'll look into it more.
     
  23. Unread #32 - Jun 26, 2014 at 7:44 AM
  24. Grave
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    Could you possibly host this on Sythe?
    http://pastebin.com/2HpYZKAH

    Demo
    I think it's a pretty good temporary solution with iFrames.
    It needs to be hosted on Sythe for the "URL bar" I made on the bottom to work properly. Also has a refresh button.

    If you'd prefer not to host it I can just take off the URL bar and keep it hosted on my site and maybe post it on the spam forum or something.

    Also it'd be cool if you can move the sidebar of the chat to the top like this, so the whole chat can feel more like a sidebar instead of being 550px wide.
     
  25. Unread #33 - Jun 26, 2014 at 7:56 AM
  26. SuF
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    That is fairly bitchin. It is very fast for me but I am on an extremely fast connection and pretty quick computer.
     
  27. Unread #34 - Jun 26, 2014 at 8:47 AM
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    Support for this; I have horrible internet and a pretty standard PC and the load times aren't too bad at all for what you're getting. With a few tweaks to make the chat look a bit better it'd be set.
     
  29. Unread #35 - Jun 26, 2014 at 6:50 PM
  30. Grave
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    I've completely finished coding this suggestion.
    I added it to the "Demo" page for the other thing. It's slightly different than your suggestion.



    This won't be useful because the form will make sure it can't be an imposter. It uses Sythe Token and grabs the Skype address directly from Sythe.

    I added useful information, sort of, to the page that the RECEIVER of the code gets.

    Here's how it basically works:
    1. Person A requests a SytheVerify URL instead of PM (if they want to)
    2. Person B fills it out. Gives the link to person A, even possibly through a PM for extra security.
    3. Person A reviews the information.

    The information filled out by Person B is verified with Sythe Token.
    Assuming there's no sort of possible abuse with this system, it's safe. Person B's information is then grabbed, and since Person B also writes down who he's trading with, it creates a log that has much more information than just a private message. This way, no one can use these URLs to pretend to be someone else. It specifically lists the person it was generated for.

    (edit) http://sythetools.com/
    Would still be better hosted on Sythe though: URL bar + no need for token.
     
  31. Unread #36 - Jun 26, 2014 at 7:18 PM
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    Still don't think the verify thing is necessary (it's also a tad annoying as you have it there on the left, obscures forum/thread names). Overall though, that's a great effort. I'm down for anything in that bar at the bottom. Great job.
     
  33. Unread #37 - Jun 26, 2014 at 7:25 PM
  34. Grave
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    I don't like it on the side either, I'll switch it over to a button like the SytheChat.
     
  35. Unread #38 - Jun 26, 2014 at 7:26 PM
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    Grave, thanks for trying but as I said earlier iframes and frames are depreciated. I won't use them unless I really have to. Also I don't see how this is superior to having chat open in a separate window or tab.

    I've bought cometchat, going to have a muck around with it today
     
  37. Unread #39 - Jun 26, 2014 at 7:43 PM
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    This. I just used it on my shitty phone on 3g and it was faster than regular.
     
  39. Unread #40 - Jun 26, 2014 at 7:58 PM
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    Sythe should use a system similar to MMOE used.
    The two people would have to initiate a trade on the actual site, and then both parties would confirm it was them, and this was the only way you could leave feedback(vouches). You had to go through the whole process.
     
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