Does God exist?

[malakadang]

I don't know if god, as we know, is real, but I'm pretty positive there's a higher power of some sort.

What makes you so positive about it?

 

[BroLy Bro]

The truth is, we don't know, and I myself am completely fine with that. People need to realize that they don't know for sure if there is a god or not. I have a set of morals without any religion, and if I go to hell for being a good person but not submitting to any religion then that sucks.

 

[justinkiller]

For a debate that says 'Does God exist', don't you think 'I don't know' has little substance?

No. There is no way to prove God is real, or God is not real. You have to have faith that he is real.

You place faith in the existence of God. Why do you not place faith in the existence of other beings?

Who said I do not?

Knowledge does not necessarily need to come from experience/the 5 senses. A priori is arguably the best source of knowledge IMO.

Ok.

It's possible, but this conspiracy theory has no evidence, and in accordance of Occam's Razor shouldn't be taken seriously because it is highly unlikely due to the superflous layers of complexity.

Occam's Razor isn't a law, it is a way to look at things. Just because it is not likely, doesn't mean it can't happen.

How do you know the bible is non-fiction? Perhaps it was based on true events, but sensationalized and semi-fictional?

Using your beloved Occams Razor, how likely is it the Bible was written as fiction, and has lasted a few thousand years, and was turned into the center of a religion, and somewhere in the mix started to be known as non-fiction?
Seems more likely that it was non-fiction to begin with and thats why people follow it.

Why can't I pick up a fiction book and say, x book says this, therefore it's correct?

Because it is a book of fiction.

 

[malakadang]

No. There is no way to prove God is real,

You can have empirical evidence, or a priori evidence in the form of reason. Why can you not use those?

or God is not real

The burden of proof is on the person postulating the claim. In order to refute a statement one must have an equal amount, or superior evidence against the statement, since there is no evidence in favour of the existence of God, saying God simply doesn't exist trumps because a positive claim requires evidence. In addition, there is evidence of absence of Gods existence, and logical proof that shows certain conceptions of God to be illogical, thus he cannot possible exist.

You have to have faith that he is real.

Faith is not an acceptable criteria for gaining knowledge. If you said you had faith that elvis presley was still alive, people would not take you seriously.

Who said I do not?

Fair enough:

• Dinosaurs
• Aliens
• Faeries
• Santa Clause
• The Easter Bunny
• The Tooth Fairy
• Gremlins
• The Invisible Spaghetti Monster

Which of these entities do not exist in your opinion?

Occam's Razor isn't a law, it is a way to look at things. Just because it is not likely, doesn't mean it can't happen.

True, but since we are talking about scenarios with no evidence, the least complex one is usually the correct one. Remember, a statement postulated without proof can be disregarded just as easily without proof.

Using your beloved Occams Razor, how likely is it the Bible was written as fiction, and has lasted a few thousand years, and was turned into the center of a religion, and somewhere in the mix started to be known as non-fiction?
Seems more likely that it was non-fiction to begin with and thats why people follow it.

In order for the bible to be non-fiction the contents within the bible must factually conform to reality. People rising from the dead do not. A plant talking does not. Being able to walk on water does not. Crossing the Red Sea, most likely does not either (although I have seen some documentaries exploring it...). Superevolution certainly does not in the form of Noahs Ark. The story of creation does not.

All these things do not conform with facts of reality. Therefore it is safe to say that the bible is not non-fiction. You also haven't used Occam's Razor fully, the last part states "with other things being equal". This is not equal as there is evidence that the bible contains non-factual information thus rendering your initial point null.

Because it is a book of fiction.

Ok, but if we picked up a non-fiction book we would be ok to do this?

 

[justinkiller]

God is omnipotent. He controls everything. Who is to say he didn't make all those things happen, then change universal laws to how we know them today?

I would respond to the rest, but im at work on my phone, so that would be difficult at the moment.

 

[malakadang]

God is omnipotent.

Omnipotence is a logical contradictory characteristics. Entities that are logical contradictions cannot exist in reality because they violate the law of identity and law of non-contradiction. Thus the statement that God is omnipotent implies that God does not exist in reality.

He controls everything. Who is to say he didn't make all those things happen, then change universal laws to how we know them today?

Do you have any evidence to support this? Remember, the burden of proof is on you. If you have no evidence to support your claim, you should not be believing in it. I could say God does not exist. One of us is wrong, and we can both use 'faith' as a reason, but it's not, it doesn't work.

I would respond to the rest, but im at work on my phone, so that would be difficult at the moment.

Alright.

 

[Silent Fang]

I believe he does. Evidence is invalid, no matter what you say someone will always be there to shoot down your thoughts and ideas. He is something you believe in and dont see. Just like faith, how can you believe in fate when there is nothing visible about it? Its solely based on your personal oppinion to which each is inclined.

So basically he exists if you want him to exist.


edited: Fate*

 

[SuF]

God is omnipotent. He controls everything. Who is to say he didn't make all those things happen, then change universal laws to how we know them today?

I would respond to the rest, but im at work on my phone, so that would be difficult at the moment.

Why do you worship the most evil thing that has ever existed? He killed the millions of Jews in the holocaust through Hitler. He kills millions ever year by starvation. He killed everything on the planet except a few creatures on a boat. He is the essence of pure evil. Why the fuck would you ever consider for a second worshiping him? Are you that awful of a person? Do you like when people die?

 

[justinkiller]

Why do you worship the most evil thing that has ever existed? He killed the millions of Jews in the holocaust through Hitler. He kills millions ever year by starvation. He killed everything on the planet except a few creatures on a boat. He is the essence of pure evil. Why the fuck would you ever consider for a second worshiping him? Are you that awful of a person? Do you like when people die?

God gave everyone free will. Hitler chose to kill all those people. He was not acting on behalf of god. You can't look at it as he lets everyone live, or some people die and he is the worst thing ever. God created the flood because people were wicked and evil, not to kill people because he hates them? Death is nothing to be afraid of, it is just a step into heaven if you live like a good person.

 

[SuF]

God gave everyone free will. Hitler chose to kill all those people. He was not acting on behalf of god. You can't look at it as he lets everyone live, or some people die and he is the worst thing ever. God created the flood because people were wicked and evil, not to kill people because he hates them? Death is nothing to be afraid of, it is just a step into heaven if you live like a good person.

God is omnipotent. He controls everything.

God can either control everything or people can have free will. It is impossible to have both. Either God is omnipotent and he is the most evil creature that has ever existed or humans have free will and God is not omnipotent and thus not a god.

This is very simple. If humans have free will they control themselves. This is impossible if god controls everything because that means he controls them. It is very simple.

 

[T V]

Being omnipotent, would He not have the ability to choose what to control and what not to control?

 

[HEHEGGG]

Anyone else remembered that we live in a limited universe? and because God is Omnipotent/omniscient that means he is infinite, for something infinite be in a limited world is basically impossible, so be would be logically be in another universe, very likely he created this limited universe and allowed conscience/sentient beings to evolve into a forever race to perfection.

And bring to the race to perfection, how do we not know that maybe that the universe is not being altered as we know it from something chaotic to what it is what as we know it, maybe is our's or someone's conscience mind altaring the universe without even knowing.

 

[malakadang]

Anyone else remembered that we live in a limited universe? and because God is Omnipotent/omniscient that means he is infinite, for something infinite be in a limited world is basically impossible, so be would be logically be in another universe, very likely he created this limited universe and allowed conscience/sentient beings to evolve into a forever race to perfection.

The universe can be defined as the totality of all existence (this is typically the accepted definition). Thus, there can only be one universe. So you're right, and infinite being in a finite world is a contradiction, but by nature of what a universe is, God can't exist in another universe.

And bring to the race to perfection, how do we not know that maybe that the universe is not being altered as we know it from something chaotic to what it is what as we know it,

This violates the second law of thermodynamics. The universe cannot become more orderly because it is subject to increasing entropy.

maybe is our's or someone's conscience mind altaring the universe without even knowing.

This would be called the dream world. Disregarding that, this is impossible. Existence is primary, and the mind is secondary. Consciousness can perceive existence, and it can change it's interpretation of existence (dreams, hallucinations), but it cannot change existence itself. If you disagree take some hallucinogens, think you can fly, then jump off the balcony. No matter what your mind says, you will die in the real world.

 

[Silent Fang]

Malakadang nothing to say to my response?

 

[malakadang]

Malakadang nothing to say to my response?

My bad!

I believe he does. Evidence is invalid, no matter what you say someone will always be there to shoot down your thoughts and ideas.

Evidence is invalid... I ask you 1 question: how do we know what is true, and what is untrue?
Also, just because people 'shoot down your thoughts and ideas' doesn't mean they're right or wrong, and it certainly doesn't mean evidence is invalid. You have to look at their arguments and find flaws, if you cannot find any flaws, then you really should reconsider your own position.

He is something you believe in and dont see. Just like faith, how can you believe in fate when there is nothing visible about it? Its solely based on your personal oppinion to which each is inclined.

There are two methods to gain knowledge, one is through experience, the other is not. You can gain knowledge through reason, and it is in principal possible to prove that fate exists, determinism attempts to do it on some level.

So basically he exists if you want him to exist.

This is a fallacy, God either exists, or he does not exist. Existence of an entity is not subject to the thoughts of the conscious mind, God either exists in reality, or he does not exist in reality as per the law of the excluded middle. Your statement suggests that God exists, and doesn't exist at the very same time! This is impossible in the real world, and hopefully the contradiction is obvious.

 

[Silent Fang]

Let me answer that with Richards question. How can you even prove that we exist? We as humans believe that we exist but there is nothing that proves that we are not just a simple thought of something greater then you or I. Give me time to think things through and prove your own points invalid.

Topics like these are a passion of mine because I love debating when it's something I'm passionate about.

 

[minifoot]

I dont beleive god exsists, example- a man goes on a killing spree shot down 10 people jumps in his car and speeds off coliding with another car and survives the inocent people in the other car all die, and i've told this to people who beleive god and their answer -it was his time to go(bullshit)

moral of the story - god is brainwash and it is impossible for anyone to know he exsists because the only way is to die which you cant come back from and tell people you just met god, so one day when you die you will find out the true answer.

 

[malakadang]

Let me answer that with Richards question. How can you even prove that we exist?

Well, I am certain of my existence because there is no logical reason for me to doubt my existence. Rational thought is only capable in an objective reality (Existence). Since I am thinking rationally, and rational thought is only capable in existence, I exist.

Rational thought cannot exist in another consciousness because the contents of consciousness is not objective itself insofar that it doesn't necessarily conform to reality. Rational thought must conform to reality otherwise it is irrational.

We as humans believe that we exist but there is nothing that proves that we are not just a simple thought of something greater then you or I.

Is there any evidence for this? The burden of proof is the person that makes the positive claim.

Give me time to think things through and prove your own points invalid.

Alright!

Topics like these are a passion of mine because I love debating when it's something I'm passionate about.

Yay.

 

[SuF]

Being omnipotent, would He not have the ability to choose what to control and what not to control?

If he chose to not control humans as they ruthlessly killed everyone, but could if he wanted he is pure evil. If he wanted to but couldn't, he is good but not all powerful.

 

[T V]

If he chose to not control humans as they ruthlessly killed everyone, but could if he wanted he is pure evil. If he wanted to but couldn't, he is good but not all powerful.

Do all humans kill each other? Is there no such thing as good in the world today? If there is more than one God, would it not be possible for at least one of them to be responsible for the evil in the world?