Do you support taxation?

[TaxationIsBad]

I don't see the problem with it, it fund a lot of things we take for granted.

 

[FireZ]

I don't see the problem with it, it fund a lot of things we take for granted.

Feel free to come back. Make sure your off your proxy next time you want to troll and come to the dispute forum and apologize for wasting staff time.

 

[OneEyd]

And what, pray tell, is my part. How is it determined?

Wow no bullshit from a google, text, or link.

To live successfully in a cohesive society people need to do their part, and taxes happen to be that part in this this particular "discussion".

But if I need to explain that to you then you really are just being as argumentative as you can over this topic and I will discontinue my involvement.

This no longer being an actual discussion.

 

[Smellex]

It would need to be individual contracts with each person, just like you have with your telephone provider, your electricity providers, etc. I don't understand why people think the people doing business as 'the government' is exempt from behaving in an ethical, social and legal manner.

Well to be quite frank about it, aside from the fact I already own the portion I drive on, logically, I also pay a 50% fuel tax, and $800 a year registration. So I think I'm paying for that piece of infrastructure about 50 times over already, considering I only drive to uni.

Why can't you just pay to have private pickup? You pay to bring groceries to your house. Pay to have the leftovers taken away...

Well this is what I also don't understand. Why is my "tax burden" dependent on my income? Let us suppose for a minute that tax is justified, then why should the bill be a percentage of income? Government "services" have a definite finite cost, just like every other service, so send me a bill in accordance with what I use, or don't send me anything at all.

The truth is: taxation is slavery, not theft. And this, and no other reason, is why taxes are a percentage of your income.

My word. I forgot about paying rego/stampduty etc.

But this is what we have on our mindset. I pay taxes so the roads I use every day are basically paid for, because once again, we pay for something we don't completely agree on.

Why the hell do I spend my money on prisoners food/location/site etc?

Why do the government use my hard earned money to support low-income earners? Povvos who didn't get good enough education to support them selves.

There are countless more reasons I can pull out but seriously there is no point.

Government will rule the world unless something happens..

 

[sneaky82]

Taxes are needed to run our communities, they help pay for things like roads, cops, and firefighters obviously we need them but the controversy is more in where that money goes, how much we pay, and who pays them.

Im in favor of heavily taxing unnecessary goods such as cigarettes, liquor and now weed!This option doesn't realy favor any one class because these goods are used throughout all of the social classes.

 

Wow no bullshit from a google, text, or link.

Infracted, thanks.

To live successfully in a cohesive society people need to do their part, and taxes happen to be that part in this this particular "discussion".

That's not what I asked. I asked what my part is, quantitatively and qualitatively, explicitly. You haven't answered. And I put it to you that you cannot answer.

You claim that I owe you something. Fine, what is it exactly that I owe to you, personally?

Taxes are needed to run our communities, they help pay for things like roads, cops, and firefighters obviously we need them but the controversy is more in where that money goes, how much we pay, and who pays them.

Not an argument. Why can't these things be paid for voluntarily like food, electricity and internet?

Im in favor of heavily taxing unnecessary goods such as cigarettes, liquor and now weed!This option doesn't realy favor any one class because these goods are used throughout all of the social classes.

Well if its moral to take money from people who smoke, because they smoke, then why do you need the government to do it? Cut out the middleman.

Do you know someone who smokes? Go and rob them yourself.

 

Richard. I don't know why the earlier posts were deleted. I don't think there were trolls. They seemed quite serious.

I haven't deleted any posts on this thread.

As a fellow Australian citizen, I must say that if you don't want to pay your taxes, get out of the country. The true thieves are financial leeches like yourself who are only too happy to use what taxes buy, but are unwilling to pay them yourself.

Can you define to me exactly what this thing you call a country is, and how I am supposed to get out of it? Because I would like to, if it means I don't have to pay extortion money.

Now, back to theft. Zypur had this to say earlier. I think the people should see it again since it was deleted last time:
<Zypur> If X causes Y, and Y is desirable, then the independent fact of X being immoral is not affected by the independent fact of Y being desirable. That is: if X is immoral, then it is absolutely immoral, regardless of Y.
<Zypur> Fabricating a MMORPG to steal money from the user base of Sythe.org allows Richard to buy things; desirable things, therefore stealing from your community is desirable.

Oh I see, very clever. You mean to accuse me of defrauding my users. That's good of you, but I submit to you that you don't know the full story, and as such these are just baseless attacks, and if you wish to find out then please do it in another thread.

EDIT: Now I expect I'll be banned for my opinion. Oh well. I really don't care.

I expect you will be banned at some point for failing to respect sythe.org. I wouldn't ban you for your opinion, only acting uncivilly or if you insulted me in such that dealing with you further would be against my self-interest.

 

Zypur's comments are not my own, they are his.

Well you're the one posting them.

I think it's great that Zypur is morally concerned about $50 worth of donations toward a failed project, I really do. But we are talking about government in this thread, which killed over 200 million * people last century. Yes, projects fail. It's part of life. Let's get back to the topic.

* http://www.fff.org/freedom/1094f.asp

 

[WeRnIE]

I support it, but I do not support very high taxes.

For example, the big countries as USA, UK has normal taxes, they are not big, but in my country - Lithuania, they are very huge and the salaries are very small.
I support it, but the countries which needs the money should not try to get more money in this way - taxes.

 

I support it, but I do not support very high taxes

Please stop posting opinions. Arguments only.

 

[Niini]

While I may have some issues with the structure of our society and some ideas about preferrable structures, I'd prefer to stick to what we've got rather then live through the massive changes (structural and intellectual) which our society would have to undergo inorder to come out government-less.

As such I support our society and thus reluctantly taxation.

I'm still greedy though and won't pay yours.

 

[WeRnIE]

I have said my argument why I do not support high taxes, because only the small countries has them, or the countries are making the taxes bigger when they expierence financial problems.
Taxes needs to be compared with the salaries and if a country is rich, then they can be even lower, but it is not fair for the poor countries.
So, it has a good and a bad side, a huge taxation for poor countries won't get anything good, so it should be lowered, thanks.

 

While I may have some issues with the structure of our society and some ideas about preferrable structures, I'd prefer to stick to what we've got rather then live through the massive changes (structural and intellectual) which our society would have to undergo inorder to come out government-less.

As such I support our society and thus reluctantly taxation.

Fallacy: Appeal to tradition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition

You'd have argued that the slaves should be kept capitive because you don't want to "live through the massive changes (structural and intellectual) which our society". Well to hell with you, what about the slaves?

I'm still greedy though and won't pay yours.

You mean you're a hypocrite. You support taxation but you won't pay for taxation. Apparently taxation is so huge and burdensome that somehow people who don't support it still have to pay for it. Now I'm asking you who support it, to pay for all of it, and you won't do this. Why?

 

[0wn_dem_rune_rocks]

It's a catch-22 for me. I don't like the government's means of getting my tax money, whatsoever. But, until the time that the Private Sector takes over the government, it's a necessary evil, in my mind.

 

[Niini]

Greed answers all of your questions, while we are all slaves it could be worse and so I'm willing to stick with what we have, living as a slave.

I'm willing to pay for my taxes for the same reason you are, I don't want to go to jail. I prefer living as I do now then living in jail.


Edit- I fail to see how the Appeal to Tradition scenario applies. I didn't justify anything by saying it has worked in the past.

 

It's a catch-22 for me. I don't like the government's means of getting my tax money, whatsoever. But, until the time that the Private Sector takes over the government, it's a necessary evil, in my mind.

That doesn't make sense. If its a necessary evil then the private sector can never take over.

Incidentally, can you please explain to me what a 'necessary evil' is.

Greed answers all of your questions, while we are all slaves it could be worse and so I'm willing to stick with what we have, living as a slave.

This is the highest level of taxation anyone in history has faced.

I'm willing to pay for my taxes for the same reason you are, I don't want to go to jail. I prefer living as I do now then living in jail.

This is the only moral excuse for paying taxes.

 

[0wn_dem_rune_rocks]

That doesn't make sense. If its a necessary evil then the private sector can never take over.

Incidentally, can you please explain to me what a 'necessary evil' is.

It's a necessary evil right now because the government (albeit inconsistently) uses it to pay for some stuff I do/did use: Roads, Public Education, etc.

If the private sector were to rule, it surely wouldn't use taxes to get its money.

A necessary evil is an evil (Taxes, government, the justice system) that we must tolerate to live a somewhat happy life.

 

A necessary evil, in this context, is an evil that we must tolerate to live a somewhat happy life.

So in this case it's not actually necessary. You believe it will make you happy. So we could just call it an evil.

If the private sector were to rule, it surely wouldn't use taxes to get its money.

Factually, what is a 'private sector' ...

Are you saying that in order to pave roads, road pavers must rob people?

 

[0wn_dem_rune_rocks]

So in this case it's not actually necessary. You believe it will make you happy. So we could just call it an evil.

Factually, what is a 'private sector' ...

Are you saying that in order to pave roads, road pavers must rob people?

I'm not saying road pavers have to rob people, due to the government being in place and not the private sector, we must pay our taxes to get what we want.

In economics, the private sector is that part of the economy which is both run for private profit and is not controlled by the state. << Google

Therefore, to get what WE (subjectively speaking, that is) need as opposed to what other people want, we must be able to distinguish between the two, and pay for those items/services accordingly. We can't do that with the government/taxes.

Edit: If it were just simply "evil," it wouldn't make us happy. We'd just have to tolerate it, or else pay the wrath.

 

I'm not saying road pavers have to rob people, due to the government being in place and not the private sector, we must pay our taxes to get what we want.

So you have to rob people to get what you want?

In economics, the private sector is that part of the economy which is both run for private profit and is not controlled by the state. << Google

So you're saying that the part of the population which doesn't employ theft as a means of survival (i.e. the 'private sector') should employ theft in the absence of government?

Edit: If it were just simply "evil," it wouldn't make us happy. We'd just have to tolerate it, or else pay the wrath.

Your argument doesn't make any sense.

You've just told me that "A necessary evil is an evil that we must tolerate to live a somewhat happy life", I've pointed out that it's not necessary that you have a happy life, therefore the definition doesn't make any sense. By your own definition it is not necessary, therefore it is simply an evil. You've not responded to this.