Do you support taxation?

So Sythe, you didn't get a free public education? You've never driven on a road?
You get what you pay for.

 

I think nobody likes paying tax but its a necessary attribute of a fair left wing capitalist society.

 

Do you know what capitalism is? It does not necessarily have to be linked to a government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

and what does this mean? Without a government the consumer of these would pay directly to the provider instead of through a convoluted system of government committees and such, hence tehre would be more accountability to the consumer and if anything, the quality of these would rise.

 

Hello again.

You pay tax because it's your social responsibility. Unfortunately from the day you were born you didn't have a choice.

Without tax who would look after the homeless and jobless?
You'd rather them die than you pay tax? (your social responsibility)

Without tax society would be unbalanced, unfair and unhappy.

Paying for health care, private security and every other little thing that tax pays for would be far more expensive than paying tax. If you can't see that your a fool.

The health care system in America is incredibly expensive whereas in the UK where we pay for Nation Insurance it is completely free.

Sorry I didn't include a lot of detail but I'm busy at the moment. I will discuss further later.

 

First of all, don’t mind my English, it’s my third language. I’d like to see you speak Dutch.
Every Government/State is different so everything is based on my own situation.

1)

I can put myself in my sleeping bag. I can put my sleeping bag in my backpack, therefore I can put myself in my backpack.

Maybe you could define “tax” in your first post ?
Why would you state that tax is theft ? The state offers me citizenship along with the Belgian rights and duties (don’t know if this is the right translation) and in return I pay taxes. So I pay my taxes, follow my duties and enjoy my rights.

Don’t you think that a lack of armies/government would result in anarchy/crime. Some rebel armies in Africa pay a rebel a 100$ fee on entrance. So in theory my family could sell everything we own in Belgium go to Africa and build a rebel army existing out of 50 000 mean rebels armed with old Russian Kalashnikovs. How will you prevent me from taking over your village ?

There will always be a hierarchy, don’t you think ?

I agree on the fact you only want the pay the things you need or use, but I suggest you also add the things you might need or use in the future.

Note1: If you don’t like your constitution, why don’t you get another nationality that suits you more. I’m pretty sure people from the Mursi tribe in Ethiopia are not paying any taxes.
Note2: If you can come up with a better structure you’d probably get the Prize in Economic Sciences. Or the Nobel Prize for peace since you are freeing us, slaves.

2)

What are you talking about. Lithuania has a tax burden of only 29,9%, placing it at the very bottom of the EU countries. (Average is 39.8%)(Belgium 44%)(UK 36.3%)(lowest: Slovakia 29.4%)
Note: figures are from 2007, source : eurostat
And it’s a good thing your country is lifting huge taxes when it’s poor. Don’t you see it will change your country’s welfare on the long run?
Army -> political stability ->more foreign investors ->more jobs ->etc…
Unless they are corrupt and they are not using that money to develop your country.

 

Well i think we can all agree that taxes will remain for the rest of, at least, our lifetimes.

Both capitalism and communism could be considered Utopia's. Both are, in these times, impossible. Simply because some humans are dishonest.
So that only leaves something inbetween.


1)We could do it like is done in modesty in some countries that a very very rich person (or small elite) pays for everything, giving them power, turning this one person (or small elite) into a kind of authority.
Positive: no taxes
Negative: one person has the power (but no hassle bout the whole voting stuff)


2)We can all chip in a little bit and have rotating leaders, like is common in most countries.
Positive: no one person has absolute authority and the authority he has in gained by achieving populatiry amoung the people and only for a number of years.
Negative: taxes

3)Alternativly we can have a monarchy that AND we pay taxes AND one person (or a small elite) rules everything.
Positive: No hassle bout chancing leaders every few years and the leader could be a cool guy
Negative: taxes, one person has the power


Personally I'll go with the second option, which does include taxes.
I'm not saying i like taxes, but i deem them necessary and i agree with them.

So yes i do support taxation.
Enjoy,
Apiel06

Jost to make things clear, when i say pay for everything I mean stuff like street lights, roads (and yes council roadmen) and other things that would make it a real PAIN for a private company to do so. (do you want toll gates at every cornor? And having guards by every lamppost sayin: oi pay up to be under this light).

 

Maybe Sythe skipped this but let me try explain;


Oh wait, theres not much to explain.

How is paying tax paying for free education and roads?

They use our tax money for other things?

Government advertisements etc.

 

Ok lets daresay we do cut out the government tomorrow the first thing people will do is group together because more people= more power and more safety.Each group will have some kind of leader/leaders and you know have starting of a new government so what did taking that middleman out do, well it just opened a spot for someone new to take its place

 

I started with that fallacy of equivocation (maybe I should have picked another fallacy but that’s not the point) to point out your syllogism is incorrect. In order for the conclusion to be true the premises must be true. Stating tax is theft is not correct.

As is stating we are slaves. A slave is held against its will. Feel free to go away. At the very most you could say we are being exploited. But then again we aren’t really exploited.
Exploitation: exploitation involves a persistent social relationship in which certain persons are being mistreated or unfairly used for the benefit of others.
I could feel mistreated but then again it benefits others as well as myself.
As an economist I strongly believe that paying taxes will resolve in a better welfare for yourself. Unless you have a significantly bigger wage than average.

How can I prove your syllogistic reasoning is invalidate using syllogistic reasoning as you clearly stated I was using a fallacy of equivocation? Are you saying my fallacy is syllogistic reasoning after all ?

Nonsense. Do you really think you can move 50000 people around without being noticed by the agencies/UN/etc ? Let’s say I’d like to take over Belgium. I’m pretty sure I will be in prison/shot down before I reach the strait of Gibraltar. The same with planes I can’t just fly to a country without being noticed.

A country or territory is a geographical area, both in the sense of nation (a cultural entity) and state (a political entity).

How will it be better when you have a private security force ? It will be the same ….Only difference is that the ceo/cfo/coo/etc will take millions where a minister of justice will take what? 90k a year ?
And are we questioning taxes or your police force ?
In Belgium the police has 3 main tasks:
1. maintenance of public order and security.
2. locating and investigation of offences
3. immediate assistance
And for my means they are succeeding at their tasks.

Well let’s say Australia has no army. Because every Australian agrees with you and you don’t need that service at the moment. But what happens if you see me closing in on your borders? (no agencies/un/etc either) You will then be in need of an army, so you will start creating an army, building tanks and security measures 2hours before my attack ?
That’s what I don’t get. You expect things to suddenly be there when you need them and you are only willing to pay for the service they provided when you needed them?

You could say that a private company could take over those services but the cost of an intervention would be enough to get a small family into financial problems. Those families with financial problems will eventually have no other option then starting participating at criminal action in order to survive. This would greaten the security cost. So at the end you are still paying for it.

Well your parents made that decision for you by giving birth you within your country. By staying in your country/and having an Australian passport you agree with the terms and conditions.

Not true, in Belgium when you are unemployed you get a minimum wage. Even though it’s not enough to live luxurious it is enough to provide all basic needs. By the way it’s not allowed to be homeless here.

I strongly believe we will end op paying the same if we did it your way. Let’s say we take away that service (rva) that gives the jobless a minimum wage. Why should we care ? Survival of the fittest right?

This would reduce the purchasing power of some markets(inferior good) enough to make businesses go bankrupt this again would mean less purchasing power and at the end could mean you would lose your job.

 

no me first.

Put me on the need someone to pay my taxes for me list too. :huh:

 

I understand your argument and I cannot agree more.

But let me ask you this: How do you expect a country, such as ours, or any country for that matter, to thrive without some sort of taxation program?

 

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Geographically there are countries. The place you reside, your territory, the place where you have citizenship. That's your country.

Surely it can thrive without taxation! Only if everyone is living under a rock. Do you except people to just "volunteer" to build public roadways, provide national security, etc? The government needs some sort of "income" to run sustainably.

Yes, sorry, our government is corrupt. They do bad things with our tax dollars. But taxation is a necessary evil; unless you can prove that a territory can thrive without taxation.