Abortion

I don’t see why there is so much drama on this subject. Nobody should be forced to give birth if its not a good time for them to have a baby.

 

[Tomas Shelby]

Good point, shouldn’t put yourself in that position in the first place tho

 

I don’t see why there is so much drama on this subject. Nobody should be forced to give birth if its not a good time for them to have a baby.

People believe it is morally wrong due to the fact there is a lifeform inside of you, provably 3 months after getting pregnant the child knows of its existence. So people think that it is wrong for someone to end a life just due to reason x y or z. When in reality, let the woman do whatever she wants with her body. Woman commonly avoid having an abortion, as abortions cause a very very large increase in depression because at some point they realize they wanted a baby and aren't now, or whatever may come up. I think that you shouldn't be limited to your abortions, but after 20 weeks, or 5 months I believe it shouldn't be allowed unless it is life-threatening for the mother. For cases of rape they should be aborted as soon as they acknowledge the pregnancy, no questions asked. I'll sadly say this, a child born due to a case of rape is probably going to be born living a depressing life unless the mother finds a spouse that will fill the father's position. And I hope to god that women realize that men abusing them, physically or mentally is just wrong, you have every right to just get up and leave, even if it hurts to do it, your health is more important than that. Hope this enlightens you a tad @Hex

 

People believe it is morally wrong due to the fact there is a lifeform inside of you, provably 3 months after getting pregnant the child knows of its existence. So people think that it is wrong for someone to end a life just due to reason x y or z. When in reality, let the woman do whatever she wants with her body. Woman commonly avoid having an abortion, as abortions cause a very very large increase in depression because at some point they realize they wanted a baby and aren't now, or whatever may come up. I think that you shouldn't be limited to your abortions, but after 20 weeks, or 5 months I believe it shouldn't be allowed unless it is life-threatening for the mother. For cases of rape they should be aborted as soon as they acknowledge the pregnancy, no questions asked. I'll sadly say this, a child born due to a case of rape is probably going to be born living a depressing life unless the mother finds a spouse that will fill the father's position. And I hope to god that women realize that men abusing them, physically or mentally is just wrong, you have every right to just get up and leave, even if it hurts to do it, your health is more important than that. Hope this enlightens you a tad @Hex

Valid points

 

[3DR]

it kinda is murder..

 

[Aiii]

In a developed society it should be still allowed, it's not a concious being. If the baby will restrict the mother and father and would end up potentially living a bad life because of that, it's reasonable to abort and try again when they are in a better situation.

Its for the best for both the kid and the parents in the long tun, however if it is a girl who makes the same mistake multiple times potentially should lead to discipline action (fine etc or compulsory sex education classes)

 

[Xour]

I had this discussion today with an elderly woman.

My personal stance on closed door issues is that a person should do what they want.

 

[Laptop65]

People seem to forget about the unborn baby inside that they are carelessly killing (yes, killing, not aborting). Most abortions happen because someone was careless with the birth control anyway, so more lazyness than anything.

If in cases where the woman's life will be at risk due to the pregnancy then it would be acceptable. There aren't really other scenarios where I would consider it acceptable to do it though. People preach about the woman's body / her right, what the father? Or are woman the only important factor in this scenario>

 

[norfwest]

You understand when the woman's life is at risk ... OK. So you see the point in considering the well-being of those already born. What about the consideration of well-being of those already born beyond the scope of death or serious physical health risk? What about the well-being of the unborn? I think unwanted pregnancies should be prevented and abortions regulated to our best ability. I also think most abortions occur because they are the best option at the time. What about the father? The father that chose to cause a pregnancy. The father's right to what? To control the body inside the mother? To control the mother's body? Yes, it's a complicated issue which is why we see such adamant and reasonable positions from many perspectives. Most abortions happen because there was no birth control, by the way. Fetuses are not able to live outside of the womb as you know. So, killing is not accurate nor precise a term. That's why we have the more apt word abortion. And yes, by some broad definition it is ending life - killing, sure. But that's not the point.

 

[norfwest]

Here's an interesting dialogue on abortion:

An-Abortion-Dialogue - Gwern.net

 

[Chival]

I partially agree with your argument but I also feel like people should be irresponsible and just do whatever they want and then abort the baby. I believe abortion should be there as an option for those who had accidents or were raped, etc...

 

[Eazy E]

I don’t see why there is so much drama on this subject. Nobody should be forced to give birth if its not a good time for them to have a baby.

17 year old gets pregnant
she cant afford to have a baby

Does that mean she gets to murder a human?


This then brings up the argument, " Well they are just a fetus, and a bundle of cells", but this is so far from the case in 99% of abortions.

Then you hear the argument " well what if someone is raped". this is a stupid argument since less than 2% of abortions are for "rape" or incestal sex or rape.


here is a video on how abortions are performed...

Also, lets keep in mind that if it isnt a good time for the person to have the baby, there are literally parents lined up on waiting list to adopt a child. In fact, some people will pay you to keep the baby, keep it healthy, and deliver it.

My girlfriend was adopted and it was a fairly streamlined process and this allows parents who cant have children, raise a child, and for children who would be killed before birth ( because that is what is happening, depending on what you see as "life").


I do not agree with the "live beings at coneption" because that is not really true technically life is there in the form of an egg and sperm, and if that is the case, then pills like Plan B would be considered abortion and I don't agree with that.

I am a libertarian so I don't think the government should be in anyone's business, including mail delivery, but since most abortions are the termination of life within the body, then I think that it is okay for there to be a debate on rather or not the government should protect "life".


You know that when i kill a pregnant woman, I get charged with Double Homicide, but when that mom goes to a doctor and gets the babies head crushed ( just being honest here, I am assuming whoever is reading this watched the video above), then it is apparently not murder.

Also, one last point is that the Supreme Court just ruled that the California can't force pregnancy centers to advertise abortion as "health Treatments" and can no longer make a anti-abortion facility promote abortion for free.

State Can’t Force Pregnancy Centers to Promote Abortion, Supremes Rule


It's just like California to force views down people's throat and to use government power to do so. Of course, pro abortion people think that is somehow goes against the constitution ( it doesnt ) and are angry because the Left has fallen so deep into irrational thinking that they see abortion as a health benefit and something that should be more common nad legal.

 

17 year old gets pregnant
she cant afford to have a baby

Does that mean she gets to murder a human?


This then brings up the argument, " Well they are just a fetus, and a bundle of cells", but this is so far from the case in 99% of abortions.

Then you hear the argument " well what if someone is raped". this is a stupid argument since less than 2% of abortions are for "rape" or incestal sex or rape.


here is a video on how abortions are performed...

Also, lets keep in mind that if it isnt a good time for the person to have the baby, there are literally parents lined up on waiting list to adopt a child. In fact, some people will pay you to keep the baby, keep it healthy, and deliver it.

My girlfriend was adopted and it was a fairly streamlined process and this allows parents who cant have children, raise a child, and for children who would be killed before birth ( because that is what is happening, depending on what you see as "life").


I do not agree with the "live beings at coneption" because that is not really true technically life is there in the form of an egg and sperm, and if that is the case, then pills like Plan B would be considered abortion and I don't agree with that.

I am a libertarian so I don't think the government should be in anyone's business, including mail delivery, but since most abortions are the termination of life within the body, then I think that it is okay for there to be a debate on rather or not the government should protect "life".


You know that when i kill a pregnant woman, I get charged with Double Homicide, but when that mom goes to a doctor and gets the babies head crushed ( just being honest here, I am assuming whoever is reading this watched the video above), then it is apparently not murder.

Also, one last point is that the Supreme Court just ruled that the California can't force pregnancy centers to advertise abortion as "health Treatments" and can no longer make a anti-abortion facility promote abortion for free.

State Can’t Force Pregnancy Centers to Promote Abortion, Supremes Rule


It's just like California to force views down people's throat and to use government power to do so. Of course, pro abortion people think that is somehow goes against the constitution ( it doesnt ) and are angry because the Left has fallen so deep into irrational thinking that they see abortion as a health benefit and something that should be more common nad legal.

Wow you actually had an arguement and not smth retarded for once *clap*
Yeah I get your points and this is why I thought of bringing up this topic because ppl have very diff opinions on it.
I work at a hospital intern about a week a month during my two semesters a year.
So as you can imagine its not rare for me having someone come in wanting an abortion.
People in my country, atleast- r very good at having protected sex. So the 2% you are implying is not accurate.
People should not be forced to give birth if they're not ready for it, chances are that'll be a sad start for the child's life.
And we allow abortions not for the course of the parents, but because of the fetus/child.
Youngsters r often iresponseable and drink/smoke during pregnancy. Not to mention most of them cannot even take care of themselfes.

 

[Eazy E]

Wow you actually had an arguement and not smth retarded for once *clap*
Yeah I get your points and this is why I thought of bringing up this topic because ppl have very diff opinions on it.
I work at a hospital intern about a week a month during my two semesters a year.
So as you can imagine its not rare for me having someone come in wanting an abortion.
People in my country, atleast- r very good at having protected sex. So the 2% you are implying is not accurate.
People should not be forced to give birth if they're not ready for it, chances are that'll be a sad start for the child's life.
And we allow abortions not for the course of the parents, but because of the fetus/child.
Youngsters r often iresponseable and drink/smoke during pregnancy. Not to mention most of them cannot even take care of themselfes.

yeah but people drink a drive and must live up to their actions. I mean DUi is different because its illegal and abortion isn't but I don't agree with the youngsters will be youngsters argument. People were getting pregnant at 14-18 for the past 5000+ years of human history and people need to live with their actions. Also, condoms have never been cheaper and more free, plan b has revolutionized the day after pill ( which would prevent abortions 99% of the time if they take it the up t0 72 hours after conception)...

Also, the 2% statistic is based on how many people get an abortion claiming either rape or incestral sex/rape.



Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions



https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf


Also, here is a screenshot of that static so you don't have to find the table yourself if you dont want to.

The dumbest part is that the top answer was " A baby would dramatically change my life"... like LOL yeah of course it will it is a child.

Just reading this chart shows you the mindset and the irrational thinking behind a lot of these mothers (or would have been mothers if you think abortion is not murder, which I am on the fence on)..

And look how many of these women said " I dont want to be a mother and have the responsibility"... like yeah no shit a lot of people dont want to take responsibility for their own actions but we live in the real world with real conseqeunces.


its so funny too, because at no point in human history have we been so rich, well off, safe, and healthy, and in no point in human history and no where else on earth are people given so much (healthcare, government subsidised food *food stamps*, decent public education, etc), yet abortion has become more common because " I can't afford it" or " I don't want to have to take responsibility" or "it will interfere with my work or school".

I think we can both agree that this is very showing and I think a lot of the excuses listed in the table above are cop outs.

 

[Eazy E]

In the chart above, 25% of the women asked said that the reason they got an abortion was " don't want people to know I had sex or got pregenant".... I mean really, is that a valid excuse to have a life threating procedure to kill what is basically a child who has just not matured enough to leave the mother's body. I mean, when a baby is born 2 months early ( which a few of my friends where) you are essentially looking at a child who could have been killed in a 2nd trimester abortion ( the most harsh of all abortions).

 

yeah but people drink a drive and must live up to their actions. I mean DUi is different because its illegal and abortion isn't but I don't agree with the youngsters will be youngsters argument. People were getting pregnant at 14-18 for the past 5000+ years of human history and people need to live with their actions. Also, condoms have never been cheaper and more free, plan b has revolutionized the day after pill ( which would prevent abortions 99% of the time if they take it the up t0 72 hours after conception)...

Also, the 2% statistic is based on how many people get an abortion claiming either rape or incestral sex/rape.



Rape and Incest: Just 1% of All Abortions



https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/pubs/psrh/full/3711005.pdf


Also, here is a screenshot of that static so you don't have to find the table yourself if you dont want to.

The dumbest part is that the top answer was " A baby would dramatically change my life"... like LOL yeah of course it will it is a child.

Just reading this chart shows you the mindset and the irrational thinking behind a lot of these mothers (or would have been mothers if you think abortion is not murder, which I am on the fence on)..

And look how many of these women said " I dont want to be a mother and have the responsibility"... like yeah no shit a lot of people dont want to take responsibility for their own actions but we live in the real world with real conseqeunces.


its so funny too, because at no point in human history have we been so rich, well off, safe, and healthy, and in no point in human history and no where else on earth are people given so much (healthcare, government subsidised food *food stamps*, decent public education, etc), yet abortion has become more common because " I can't afford it" or " I don't want to have to take responsibility" or "it will interfere with my work or school".

I think we can both agree that this is very showing and I think a lot of the excuses listed in the table above are cop outs.

Ofcourse there will be snowflakes which can't be assed having a baby, cause their current lifestyle is too important for them.
But should victims of rape, incest etc. be held accountable because some ppl can't be assed having a child?

 

[Eazy E]

Ofcourse there will be snowflakes which can't be assed having a baby, cause their current lifestyle is too important for them.
But should victims of rape, incest etc. be held accountable because some ppl can't be assed having a child?

No, and I think if there is a rape kit done or you can prove you were raped or made a bad decision with a family member, then yes I think it would be okay to have the abortion.

edit: and that is okay, because like I said, less than 2% combined are for rape and abortion, but the argument that abortion should be legal because of the 2% is just a bad argument.


One thing that the Left in particular does ( not saying I am on the right I just see this done all the time with the Hard left and some liberals), is they claim that because there are instances where the person was raped ( although very very very uncommon), that the "right" or anyone who is pro-life wants them to be forced to a table to have that baby and be forced to keep it, or they make some stupid argument that "the right wingers dont care about women's bodies" or " get your hands off my vagina" or some stupid argument like that, when in reality, it is those same pro choice and "right wingers" who really want to help the child be born and it is the christian and right wingers who are opening adoption homes, marching in the snow with signs that literally say " I will adopt your baby, dont kill it", and even gathering charity funds to help those who "cant afford a baby" afford a baby.

Look, i think the abortion argument is one that will never change, and at least the pro abortion people are making it somewhat safer to have an abortion, compared to having to have a super unsafe and painful abortion in thier homes with a coat hanger or something, but at the end of the day it really depends on where you think life begins, rather or not you think that the mother's uncomfort or want/need to have an abortion is more important than the "life", and rather you think the government has the right to tell you what to do with your own body. But then again, a baby inside a mother isn't the mother, it is a baby, and I just hate the "its a bundle of cells" or " Let a woman have rights" bullshit, because it is exactly that, bullshit.

 

[Cairo]

If the mother doesn’t want the child, do you really think she’ll ever care for him later on? Cmon now.

 

[satsuki]

I don’t see why there is so much drama on this subject. Nobody should be forced to give birth if its not a good time for them to have a baby.

If the baby isn't like fully formed or anything I don't see what's wrong with someone making a choice about their body.

 

If the baby isn't like fully formed or anything I don't see what's wrong with someone making a choice about their body.

A fetus has no gender in early stages. You could argue that the fetus would of grown up to be whoever, but abortion is very humane.

Edit: I agree w u