Feedback.

[x339]

Dialatic was spot on in everything he was saying. Staff members would like to use the excuse that he is just raging over not becoming mod, but in fact it's quite the opposite. Dialatic saw all these problems before, during, and after being a moderator. Before requesting to return to staff he told me he wanted to do it because he wanted to try and change the site for the better, and that doing it through a moderator position would be much easier. Instead he was denied, and so he made one last ditch effort to get his point across.

It's kind of funny too, almost everyone on that thread was agreeing with him, yet the staff tried to shut him down because they don't like what he had to say. Corey is the prime example of a mod who just uses marshal law, and thinks he is right because of it.

So I'm going to make some points here, and I want this to remain open so that other members can post their opinions as well. Yes it's going to create drama, but you know what, shit happens. If you can't handle the drama it will bring, you should probably just get off the internet right now. It's all part of the growing process, and of course there are going to be some growing pains involved. Don't cry about it and close the thread as an excuse.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

How moderators are chosen - We all see how it works. There isn't a literal DNP list, but we all know there are users who are never going to get it. Why do these users usually end up in this position? Because they care. Users who go out of their way to try and become a moderator are instantly shut down. When I was new here, a well known member decided to srb because he was upset about how things were being run. A global posted as said "Oh so and so, you would have been mod if you didn't make it so apparent that you wanted it". That is exactly the kind of the attitude people have on sythe, and it's completely asinine. Users who go out of their way to help the site, and try to do their best so that they can become a moderator and help even more are denied. Users who act like they don't give a shit get promoted. Why. This logic makes no sense, and is completely useless, because basically we have a bunch of staff members who really don't give a shit about seeing the site grow, and all the users who really want to help the site are looked down upon.

A common excuse in this case is going to be "oh you want mod so bad hurr durr". I wanted to be a moderator so that I could help the site, in fact I feel like I could get a lot more done now if I was one, but I'm not because of the personal feelings staff members have against me. I know it's not going to happen, and so using that as an excuse to tell me this is wrong is not going to work.

The staff really does not care - One of the best examples of this so far has got to be the community development team. We already have a few staff on the team, but the majority are not part of it. Not one single staff member has applied to become a community development member. Not one single staff member (aside from those already on it) has shown any sort of interest in actually helping the site. It's a prime example of how people are bred to really not give a shit about the site, and then they are put in charge, and all those users who do care (the ones applying) are never going to become a moderator, because they care too much.

You can pretty much tell who cares and who doesn't. DJweasel cares (sorry Dial, gotta disagree on this point ); it is nearly impossible for him to effectively moderate on sythe, yet he goes out of his way to do it every day. He is more active then half the other globals, and he doesn't even have a computer for christ's sake. SuF cares; he is probably one of the only people who actually tries to get some bit of innovation going. Frenzy doesn't care. The only reason she remains a moderator is because people like her. She gets modscore, that's all. She doesn't do anything else, yet she remains in the position. Clashfan doesn't care. He's a cool dude, but he doesn't do shit. People like him, so he remains in the position. It just reinforces the point that users who don't care climb the ranks, and users who do are shot down. I enjoy both Clashfan and Frenzy as people, and so does everyone else, which is why they are still moderators, but that's not the right reasons, and you have to look at what they're doing and not who they are.

A common excuse in this scenario is going to be "this is just a personal attack", and to some degree, it is. The vast majority of staff members really don't care about the site, and the only reason they are in the position is because they like the power and the rank that comes with it. If you're going to be there, do something with it.

Everything's personal - This is my favorite part. Let's take a look at my ban today. Why was I banned? I was banned for doing something that countless other users have done. I posted a link to my website, in the spam forum. http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1490301 - got a warning and the thread closed, yet I was banned. We all know why I was banned. There are plenty of staff members who are just waiting for me to fuck up. They can't wait to ban me in hopes that I'll be out of their hair for good: The prime example of how the staff have become overly personal in everything they do on this site. I call that corruption. Everything is personal now. They try to hide it under the professionalism guise, but that is so far from the truth. Staff members obtain and retain their positions based on how much the superiors like them. It has nothing to do with the quality of their skills or anything else, it's all about who is who's bff.

Listen - Every thread like this is starting to end up the same way. Staff disagree, and almost everyone else agrees. The staff then decide to close it because they think they are right in every manner, and that is that. Let's look at a more visual example here. Mcdonalds introduces a new product, it tastes like shit, and their customers respond with feedback telling them it is horrible. What does Mcdonalds do in this case? If Mcdonalds was run by Sythe staff they would tell the customers that they are wrong, the food tastes good, and that they don't know what they are talking about. Lucky for us, Mcdonalds is run by people who know what they're doing, and so they listen to the customers, change the product, and then they become more successful.

I hope that example is pretty easy to grasp, because it's exactly what is happening here. The staff assume everyone else has no clue what they're talking about, and so they end it. In fact, we do know what we're talking about, and with out users like us there would be no forum in the first place. If you want to be successful you actually have to listen to people. You can't just say you're right and close the thread (http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1490139&page=3).

Conclusion - The staff better get a hold of things, because you're suffocating the forum you've spent quite a bit of time on. Maybe you don't realize it, but you are, and you need to open your eyes so you can see what you're doing.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

tl;dr If you can't handle the drama that will come with this thread, you're a pussy, and you should just leave. It's all part of the growing pains. Now go back and read it.

 

[-Bat]

Dialatic supports this.

Just so people know this is -Bat not Dial's thoughts(someone mentioned it might be confusing)

I agree with some staff not caring, but there are those who do care. Not sure why those who don't stick around.

Everything being personal that's true and obvious, but I wouldn't really expect anything else.

One thing I do want to add myself is while I have quite a few moments of acting immature there are alot of people that post on these kind of threads that think immaturely. That is on both sides by the way. If you are going to post on this thread and feel heated please just take a second to calm down and think on both sides with a cool head.

Also there is a few people saying Sythe is dying why does it matter or why post because nothing is changed. Why does it have to be like this?

 

[Emperor Nero]

I agree with all of the points. I have been here long enough and active enough to get over 5k posts and I have observed a thing or two. The staff promotion thing is true. Cosrob wrote a guide on becoming staff, and I am sure you all remember what he said was looked for, he said that one of the largest parts of becoming staff is being in the IRC a lot or constantly posting in the spam forum. You have to get into the staff inner circle to become a staff member. You aren't recognized here for the hard work you put in (for the most part, there has been a couple of cases but not many), but for the people you know. I know the same thing as x339, that I would never become staff and for that matter I no longer actively seek to be staff - just improve Sythe the best I can.

I also see that everything that is said here becomes highly personal, and I can see where you guys are coming from. You don't want someone talking bad about you, but you're in an elevated position and set in a spot light. Everyone is going to notice your (in)activity, your foul ups, or anything else you do. That is part of the job, and part of professionalism is taking the properly constructed opinions and allow the rest to roll off your back.

I also see that some staff don't care, and I think Dj does a good job with what he has got and you can see that he really cares about the site. SuF is probably the most genuine person on the staff team, he is really a great guy and you can see he cares. He is out there in the community and he tries his best to listen to people. He doesn't act above anyone else because he has a rank and he doesn't BS. He seems to tell it straight. There are plenty more examples, but these two I am just expounding upon from x339's thread.

I have spent way too much time here at Sythe to just let it fade away because of mismanagement or failure to improve. I hope that a general consensus can be eventually reached and something can be done to make the site better.

 

[rickjames928]

Heres how i feel about all this. This is a blackmarket forum at its base roots. this place was not meant to become a community it happened by accident basically. I give props to the moderators because they deal with scammers spammers and hackers. To expect them to want to develop the community on top of that is absurd. The fact that all of this is bothering you means its time to grow up and look at sythe as a business. A large part of the people that come here ONLY come here for the market.

 

[-Bat]

Heres how i feel about all this. This is a blackmarket forum at its base roots. this place was not meant to become a community it happened by accident basically. I give props to the moderators because they deal with scammers spammers and hackers. To expect them to want to develop the community on top of that is absurd. The fact that all of this is bothering you means its time to grow up and look at sythe as a business. A large part of the people that come here ONLY come here for the market.

Why can't it be a community aswell? We want the community part of Sythe to grow. Notice the members that are actually in the community sections/part are the ones that stay and are more active. You are saying Sythe has to be this or that...It is close minded thinking

 

[Emperor Nero]

Why can't it be a community aswell? We want the community part of Sythe to grow. Notice the members that are actually in the community sections/part are the ones that stay and are more active. You are saying Sythe has to be this or that...It is close minded thinking

And also you have to consider how a business makes money. It brings in customers and then those customers become repeat customers. If you bring in more members and have a community that is worth staying for they are more likely to be community active which means people are going to want to donate. Consider your active community members repeat customers, and without repeat customers a business will have a very hard time flourishing.

 

[rickjames928]

Why can't it be a community aswell? We want the community part of Sythe to grow. Notice the members that are actually in the community sections/part are the ones that stay and are more active. You are saying Sythe has to be this or that...It is close minded thinking

no its being realistic. While i fully agree that a community is a part of sythe it is not priority. And yes the people that stay are the community involved ones but they are not the reason this site thrives. When someone mentions sythe they dont mention the fabulous community they mention the fact that it has a market. The community is important do not misinterpret what i said, all i said was that it is not the moderators top priority. They have hundreds of scam reports a month thousands of spam reports a day and they have to ensure sythe is a safe place to trade on. The community is only a bonus to the site not the reason it exists.

 

I've got to admit, some promotion and staff actions are personal. I agree with your point, and if we take your definition of corruption, there is definitely some corruption around.

Nothing can be perfect. But things can be improved, I'd like to see staff willing to, and wanting for letting things change as needed. The site can't remain the same over time, and it's exposed by staff members themselves, if we stay the same, the community will die.

Along with other feedback, I'm going to put staff inactivity in posting and involvement, I think this is critical. Modscore is not everything that should be seek .

 

[-Bat]

no its being realistic. While i fully agree that a community is a part of sythe it is not priority. And yes the people that stay are the community involved ones but they are not the reason this site thrives. When someone mentions sythe they dont mention the fabulous community they mention the fact that it has a market. The community is important do not misinterpret what i said, all i said was that it is not the moderators top priority. They have hundreds of scam reports a month thousands of spam reports a day and they have to ensure sythe is a safe place to trade on. The community is only a bonus to the site not the reason it exists.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be that way. The rs market has been declining for some time now and we need another base. Making it at least partly more community based will help with activity. True it is not a priority, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be.

Also I will say that I like how Sythe the website in general has had more activity with the community ideas, events, and people.

 

[mage3158]

The way Dialatic's feedback was handled by staff was -extremely- immature.

You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[rickjames928]

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be that way. The rs market has been declining for some time now and we need another base. Making it at least partly more community based will help with activity. True it is not a priority, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be.

Also I will say that I like how Sythe the website in general has had more activity with the community ideas, events, and people.

yes but you're both bitching about the fact the moderators aren't babysitting the community like they do the market. The community grows on its own its the nature of a forum. A market requires far more attention to keep it from being a cesspool of scammers. Im not arguing that a community would help this place a lot its just not the moderators responsibility to see it happen. It is on you guys the users and the owner sythe.

 

[-Bat]

yes but you're both bitching about the fact the moderators aren't babysitting the community like they do the market. The community grows on its own its the nature of a forum. A market requires far more attention to keep it from being a cesspool of scammers. Im not arguing that a community would help this place a lot its just not the moderators responsibility to see it happen. It is on you guys the users and the owner sythe.

There is no need for cussing young man. Calm down.

There are things you can do to help a community grow. Yes the market needs people to look out for it and that does happen, but I disagree that mods shouldn't help at all.

Either way this is going in a circle, so please pm me unless you have something valid.(this thread is more than just this issue.)

 

[mage3158]

Worries me sometimes how some people take a forum so seriously and go to great lengths in which to do so.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[Emperor Nero]

yes but you're both bitching about the fact the moderators aren't babysitting the community like they do the market. The community grows on its own its the nature of a forum. A market requires far more attention to keep it from being a cesspool of scammers. Im not arguing that a community would help this place a lot its just not the moderators responsibility to see it happen. It is on you guys the users and the owner sythe.

The complaint is centered around how if Sythe doesn't change it will slowly die because we don't have the same userbase or traffic we used to, it's about figuring out what the problem is and how we can get those users back. These are a few of the complaints that x339 and obviously other community active members see that could use some change or at least indepth explaining.

 

[Apith]

About the staff members who don't want the site to grow, I feel like their judgement is clouded by disliking a user. I agree if you did become mod, you would gain respect, you would be able to get your point across easier.

The staff don't care. My guess is they would rather spend the time doing mod stuff (possible), or just spend their extra time elsewhere. I feel like they don't realize or think about how they can help. For the record, I was going to apply but we have had our issues in the past, and last thing I'd want is to think you were "corrupted", I'd basically be giving you a chance at shooting me down. I wrote an app and just thought "forget it".

I must agree with you on the personal part too. They cannot let personal things cloud their judgement, that's how they would stay professional. Hating one more than the other can result in a harsher punishment for the hated one. Still, I can't assume that they did this to you. I don't know much about it, but a different mod could have locked the other thread. There's also a difference because you should know better.

Small difference in the listen part, but I understand where you're coming from.

One of the problems is if you do not approach the staff, and don't get recognized, you don't have much of a chance at mod. What if you could have changed Sythe, what if you could have been the best staff ever, people aren't really given the opportunity. Then again, you can't just promote anyone either.

SuF is a great example of how staff should be, maybe DJ too but someone like DJ that has more time would be able to contribute tremendously.

yes but you're both bitching about the fact the moderators aren't babysitting the community like they do the market. The community grows on its own its the nature of a forum. A market requires far more attention to keep it from being a cesspool of scammers. Im not arguing that a community would help this place a lot its just not the moderators responsibility to see it happen.

We cannot just rely on the market, and not when it's based mainly on the RS market. Moderators are here to help, they chose to take time of their daily life to help Sythe. They should and they do care. Mods tend to have a greater say than others, if they choose to help, they would more than likely choose to make that their responsibility.

 

[Punjabi3]

tl;dr If you can't handle the drama that will come with this thread, you're a pussy, and you should just leave. It's all part of the growing pains. Now go back and read it.

Being unprofessional at its best. I personally wouldn't want to work with you on a community development team, can't blame the people who don't want to.

 

[x339]

Being unprofessional at its best. I personally wouldn't want to work with you on a community development team, can't blame the people who don't want to.

I'm not the only one on the team. Verts it the other leader. If people aren't joining simply because of me then you should take it up with me, and not do a disservice to the site by avoiding it.

 

[SuF]

I've gone ahead and deleted some posts that were not relevant to the conversation and were only causing fighting. This is not censorship before y'all eat my dick off. I'm trying to focus the conversation on whatever x339 wrote (too busy to read it right now) and arguing about each other and what people have said is pointless and isn't adding anything. PM me and bitch if you really care. Don't post it here. Kthanks.

 

[ABeeCDee]

yes but you're both bitching about the fact the moderators aren't babysitting the community like they do the market. The community grows on its own its the nature of a forum. A market requires far more attention to keep it from being a cesspool of scammers. Im not arguing that a community would help this place a lot its just not the moderators responsibility to see it happen. It is on you guys the users and the owner sythe.

There are sectionals and globals for a reason. A community has grown, and so which, it is as much a part as the market. Especially with all the "feedback" going on for it, they should be focusing on it more. They don't need to 'babysit' like you call it, but they should participate and at least TRY to make it grow. Or even just get better.

Worries me sometimes how some people take a forum so seriously and go to great lengths in which to do so.

Wut? Hypocrite.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

"Everything's personal" This section interests me the most. Because it's true. If the staff doesn't like someone, they do everything in their power to find the mistake so they can ban someone. This shows so much immaturity, it's ridiculous.

 

I missed all the drama but I'm glad I had the time to read over it. I whole heartedly approve of most of Dialatic and x339's points.

Also moderators, don't simply say "yeh ok I'm going to lock this" and state your argument as to why you will lock it, this gives us no chance to retort which makes us have to make another thread. With this new thread someone will start complaining about beating a dead horse or something similar to that.

Also props to Mike and x339 for actually having the guts to speak out.

Also, x339, be sure to be professional in your retorts. Regardless if it is or not people will try to to say its merely a personal attack. If you present a logical argument and remain professional it will disarm them and force them to consider the issue.