Feedback to the Community

tMoon · Dec 9, 2016

This happens every promotion period, but I feel as if it has gotten worse since mod applications have opened up and it's no longer pure staff selection. In particular, community dissatisfaction towards selection and anger which is directed at both established and new staff.

Please take account that if you were not selected, there is reasoning. All staff now participates in providing input on new staff with upper staff actually voting based on said input and their own beliefs and before you attack new mods, give them a chance.

Furthermore, please realize that staff are just fellow Sythe users who dedicate their time to helping maintain the site. We are people and many of us are very busy people. So, when we mishandle something, or do something you do not like, please remember that. We are here trying to make Sythe a better place and like you, are just people and while this may be a forum, relentless attacking of staff simply trying to make it a better place is tiring. Constructive feedback is always appreciated, relentless attacking is annoying and tiresome.

I think Chloe's post sums it up well:

Chloe said:
Did you ever consider the fact that those who are "more deserving" didn't apply? Did you ever consider that these people have been mod for 5 minutes and you can't judge whether or not they're not deserving. This is the kind of negative attitude that made me go inactive for 2 weeks due to certain people being so negative.

Instead of saying they don't deserve it, how about some words of encouragement so they do a good job? So done with people who are constantly whinging when these people have offered their FREE TIME to help the site.

Heads447 · Dec 9, 2016

thanks for the feedback `:D

Admires · Dec 9, 2016

Extremely appalled you used Chloe's post to sum up your post. I think TTB had a great rebuttal against her post which was quite frankly just a terrible reaction, especially as a global moderator. We are allowed to have dissatisfaction with staff selection because in the end, we all use this website and obviously have an attachment to it since all of us are still here despite the dying activity.

Chloe's post was essentially taking the dissatisfaction and portraying it as whining which not only comes off as condescending, but an extreme lack of awareness or obliviousness in how the community she moderates feels. Staff should operate to take all feedback as well as discontent in their stride and turn it into something positive. In essence, Chloe's post appeared as more "whining" than the post she replied to. I'm relatively unbiased here as I didn't get accepted or denied since my moderator application was too late to even be read by staff.

Here's some constructive feedback since we're on the topic; don't promote people who got pardoned relatively recently for scamming 400$ and may still have outstanding debts.

Farcast · Dec 9, 2016

Perhaps many of the current staff team need to shed the thin-skin and realize that you aren't entitled to agreement. There are going to be members of the community that don't like you and don't agree with many of your ideas (even if you're on staff) - this holds true for every staff team that has ever existed. I read the entire thread in question and nobody was "relentlessly attacked." There was disagreement with who was chosen and a number of people expressed surprise or disapproval. Nobody is above criticism.

Did you even run this by staff before posting? The only thing the quote you provided shows us is that some staff are unable to keep a level head upon being criticized or when facing community disagreement.

JRSmithfan1 · Dec 9, 2016

Thanks for the feedback I agree with you I need to change my ways and reform in order to become a regular, productive member of Sythe!

tMoon · Dec 9, 2016

I state this through my response, but please take the following into account:
This thread in its entirety is to open up a line of communication among community and staff as posts across a news thread hardly seemed appropriate.

Admires said:
Extremely appalled you used Chloe's post to sum up your post. I think TTB had a great rebuttal against her post which was quite frankly just a terrible reaction, especially as a global moderator. We are allowed to have dissatisfaction with staff selection because in the end, we all use this website and obviously have an attachment to it since all of us are still here despite the dying activity.

Chloe's post was essentially taking the dissatisfaction and portraying it as whining which not only comes off as condescending, but an extreme lack of awareness or obliviousness in how the community she moderates feels. Staff should operate to take all feedback as well as discontent in their stride and turn it into something positive. In essence, Chloe's post appeared as more "whining" than the post she replied to. I'm relatively unbiased here as I didn't get accepted or denied since my moderator application was too late to even be read by staff.

Here's some constructive feedback since we're on the topic; don't promote people who got pardoned relatively recently for scamming 400$ and may still have outstanding debts.

I just read TTB's post and I completely understand where he is coming from, but this post is not meant to critique feedback or say do not provide feedback; rather, give new moderators a chance to defend themselves and perform and recognize if other people were not selected, there is a reason why. I was just as surprised at these promotions as other people, but I still remain of the thought that before they are attacked, they should be given a chance. If they do not moderate as they should, they will be demoted as both Shall Skill and Loyal were.

I do not know enough about the circumstances, but the scam in question was paid back in full and occurred over 3 years ago.

This thread in its entirety is to open up a line of communication among community and staff as posts across a news thread hardly seemed appropriate.

Farcast said:
Perhaps many of the current staff team need to shed the thin-skin and realize that you aren't entitled to agreement. There are going to be members of the community that don't like you and don't agree with many of your ideas (even if you're on staff) - this holds true for every staff team that has ever existed. I read the entire thread in question and nobody was "relentlessly attacked." There was disagreement with who was chosen and a number of people expressed surprise or disapproval. Nobody is above criticism.

Did you even run this by staff before posting? The only thing the quote you provided shows us is that some staff are unable to keep a level head upon being criticized or when facing community disagreement.

No, a universal agreement is not expected and dissatisfaction is expected, but part of it is again giving individuals a shot. I personally invite critiques on my moderating abilities (as I imagine do other staff), I just want those critiques to be sound and not driven by emotional disdain.

I am not specifically referring to the staff thread in reference towards community members have shown towards staff. Perhaps relentlessly attacked is an overstatement (likely is, poor-wording on my part), but there are quite a few members who have harassed staff for no other reason other than personal dislike. You can dislike someone and still share a mutual respect and that is part of what I am mentioning here. You are a former global mod, you of all people know that you volunteer time to help make the community a better place and there is a difference between actual critique and flaming.

Of course. This thread is meant to open a dialogue that was being expressed in that thread and I figured the feedback forum would be a much better place than a news thread meant to announce and congratulate new staff. I am not sure where the lack-of levelheadedness comes into play, critique is invited as long as it is actual critique and I didn't see Chloe's post as a post fueled by anger, rather one pointing out areas that may be ignored when people post their dissent.

/Sorry if any of this response seems rushed, I'm running out the door and will respond more thoroughly if I think I missed anything.

Syed · Dec 9, 2016

Nice blatant attempt at trying to get global mod here, Chloe's position opened up, eh? Why don't you let global mods address the community and you stick to your forums, sectional.

Anyway, there were plenty of people that applied but the staff have a follow-the-leader attitude and always have just done what the first poster said, so if the input thread starts with negative input from a staff member then I doubt that promotion would go anywhere.

Scotty · Dec 21, 2016

agreed tmoe, staff and community teams give up their FREE TIME to help sythe.org

Buyacc · Dec 21, 2016

I think there was a very strong argument by someone in the same thread from which one of the quotes came, let me quickly check.

This was posted by Dave:

To everyone who cares about what I have to say. Guys, staff make these promotions based off the things we see and discuss, maybe in your eyes it's not perfect, but we do what we genuinely believe is best for the website. No strong arming, no picking favorites, we just do what we can to help and make things better for everyone.

As a community you guys need to remind yourself that blasting eachother on a thread like this, or blasting us on a thread isn't going to do anything. We want your feedback, but post a legitimate thread where you explain (with valid reason) why you say/believe the things you do.

Most of us really do appreciate and consider your feedback, just present it to us in a constructive way.

This was posted by Heads447:

Yeah because Darkspark's promotion was entirely based on merit and site-activity, and bias/picking favorites did not at all play a factor in selecting him out of dozens other more deserving people that applied.

A very strong argument in my opinion that shows how biased and 'friends-first' the moderator picking is.

SuF · Jan 13, 2017

Syed said:
Nice blatant attempt at trying to get global mod here, Chloe's position opened up, eh? Why don't you let global mods address the community and you stick to your forums, sectional.

Anyway, there were plenty of people that applied but the staff have a follow-the-leader attitude and always have just done what the first poster said, so if the input thread starts with negative input from a staff member then I doubt that promotion would go anywhere.

You've never changed in the years I've known you and you never should. You're a great guy and I applaud you for telling it like it is. Keep it up, bud.

kmjt · Jan 15, 2017

Syed said:
Anyway, there were plenty of people that applied but the staff have a follow-the-leader attitude and always have just done what the first poster said, so if the input thread starts with negative input from a staff member then I doubt that promotion would go anywhere.

couldn't have Syed it better myself

Jack · Jan 15, 2017

I'd check all the staff changes just to point out some glaring inconsistencies but the sticky hasn't been updated in months so do that and serve it up for me and I'll let ya know the problems

Amei · Jan 15, 2017

Posted it before but I'm too lazy to dig for it.

Some people who are promoted and seem like bullshit promotions to the majority of the community end up doing a good job. The main problem clearly comes in that there's no reasoning given for why certain people were chosen over others. Nobody outside of staff is going to ever see Arcane's app for example.

You can't just tell people "You're not active enough" then promote someone who is even more inactive and expect everyone to be chill with it. I get that you're trying to be polite when turning people down but you're literally shooting yourself in the foot. There needs to be more transparency if the problem is ever going to be solved.