Vouches..

[Noobmage]

The way I understood it is that general "he's a good person" vouches should only appear on MM applications or market threads, whereas vouches which are on vouch threads and contribute to vouch count should be for trades and trades alone.

In my opinion any categorical vouches on vouch threads should be infracted/removed as they are meaningless and misleading.

So, in the context of Cosrob's post here, only A would be allowed on a vouch thread and to contribute towards vouch count, B and E would be allowed on market threads/MM applications, and C and D would have no place other than MM applications.

 

[Imagine]

^ I agree with Noobmage on this one.

Even if they are included in vouch threads though, they should NOT be included in vouch count.

 

The way I understood it is that general "he's a good person" vouches should only appear on MM applications or market threads, whereas vouches which are on vouch threads and contribute to vouch count should be for trades and trades alone.

This definitely. A trade has not taken place for one of these 'recommendations', and a trade is the requirement for a vouch.

 

[cosrob97]

Well you guys are going to go no-where if you don't have a definition for a vouch.

vouch/vouCH/
Verb:

• Assert or confirm as a result of one's own experience that something is true or accurately so described.
• Confirm that someone is who they say they are or that they are of good character: "someone could vouch for him".

just google "define: vouch" to find the definitions.

The definitions of vouching does indeed show that non-trade related vouches should count in a vouch thread.

Tl;dr: of my whole argument: A vouch is to show a sign of trust in somebody, just because a trade wasn't completed between the users doesn't mean you can't trust the person.

So in a real life example: I've known friend A for 2 years. Friend A is a electrician. I've talked to friend A for a while, seen some of his work (in a sythe example - other vouches), all looks good. Then comes along friend B and he says he needs an electrician, you would then vouch for friend A to be a good electrician and friend B should use friend A. Even though friend A hasn't done any electrical work for me (because I never needed any) doesn't mean I don't trust them. And then we come back to a definition of a vouch, "they are of good character". Only difference between this vouch and a forum one is: one is word of mouth and one is written.

So can you guys tell me you've never recommended somebody even without completing a service with them in real life?




Hope it makes sense.

 

[Imagine]

Well you guys are going to go no-where if you don't have a definition for a vouch.

just google "define: vouch" to find the definitions.

The definitions of vouching does indeed show that non-trade related vouches should count in a vouch thread.

Tl;dr: of my whole argument: A vouch is to show a sign of trust in somebody, just because a trade wasn't completed between the users doesn't mean you can't trust the person.

So in a real life example: I've known friend A for 2 years. Friend A is a electrician. I've talked to friend A for a while, seen some of his work (in a sythe example - other vouches), all looks good. Then comes along friend B and he says he needs an electrician, you would then vouch for friend A to be a good electrician and friend B should use friend A. Even though friend A hasn't done any electrical work for me (because I never needed any) doesn't mean I don't trust them. And then we come back to a definition of a vouch, "they are of good character". Only difference between this vouch and a forum one is: one is word of mouth and one is written.

So can you guys tell me you've never recommended somebody even without completing a service with them in real life?




Hope it makes sense.

Sure, we'd recommend them (Refer others to them), but a). They wouldn't put the recommendation on a pamphlet to brag about, "Hey look, that guy said I was good!" and b). We would say that we've seen others' work, we would tell them that we hadn't ordered from them so in case something went wrong, we wouldn't be held responsible.

(This is what typically happens when I see this irl).

 

[Punkerpunk13]

So can you guys tell me you've never recommended somebody even without completing a service with them in real life?

I wouldn't leave them feedback for it though.

Just needs to have a difference in the type of vouches. I don't see why they HAVE to be moved in together.

Would take like half a minute to split them up?

 

[Emperor Nero]

Sure, we'd recommend them (Refer others to them), but a). They wouldn't put the recommendation on a pamphlet to brag about, "Hey look, that guy said I was good!" and b). We would say that we've seen others' work, we would tell them that we hadn't ordered from them so in case something went wrong, we wouldn't be held responsible.

(This is what typically happens when I see this irl).

I agree with this, a vouch thread is an advertisement of trust so in essence it would be like printing: "Friend As Electrical - John Doe Approved" It also isn't like a real world business is going to have a bulletin board that has the names of all the people approve the service. I mean would someone really take you seriously if you said "Yeah, I have seen his work but I have never used him. He is a good person." Being a good person has nothing to do with quality of work. So Cosrob's example is a little askew of fact, but then there is the whole point that Sythe isn't the real world and the market function complete different because of the anonymity of it. I mean I know friend A personally and have seen his work first hand in most cases, but Sythe isn't like that. In real life there comes personal responsibilities into play.

 

[Noam]

Personally I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed if they are seperate. Effectively, a Vouch thread can also contain a Recommendation section at the bottom with recommendations that were made even though a trade never happened. This basically lets users decide for themselves whether they want to trust all vouches or only trade-related ones, instead of having to sort them out themselves

 

[Punkerpunk13]

Personally I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed if they are seperate. Effectively, a Vouch thread can also contain a Recommendation section at the bottom with recommendations that were made even though a trade never happened. This basically lets users decide for themselves whether they want to trust all vouches or only trade-related ones, instead of having to sort them out themselves

I think this should be the case as well, but as well as vouch count in thread titles and such be only trade ones.

 

[Emperor Nero]

I think this should be the case as well, but as well as vouch count in thread titles and such be only trade ones.

I concur, this would be a simple and easy solution. I think the consensus are not that you can't display them, but that you can't count them as an official vouch. Among those that support the change in rules that is.

 

[sportsplayer12]

Or instead of having a whole new "Recommendations" section, people could add a "Testimonials" area in their vouch thread itself.

 

[Sillymonkey]

I can definitely see the point in separating certain kinds of vouches, but then for people that typically only do 1 type of trading and 'every once and awhile' do X thing and get a vouch, it may over complicate things.

It wouldn't be bad if they were all still located on the same thread but categorized accordingly, but when you spread things out it gets difficult for the little guy to weigh someone's trustworthyness in a trade.

Tl;dr I see reasoning in separating vouch types, but a newfag shouldn't have to search deep in the bowels of the website to find all the different vouches or good posts about someone.

 

[Punkerpunk13]

I can definitely see the point in separating certain kinds of vouches, but then for people that typically only do 1 type of trading and 'every once and awhile' do X thing and get a vouch, it may over complicate things.

It wouldn't be bad if they were all still located on the same thread but categorized accordingly, but when you spread things out it gets difficult for the little guy to weigh someone's trustworthyness in a trade.

Tl;dr I see reasoning in separating vouch types, but a newfag shouldn't have to search deep in the bowels of the website to find all the different vouches or good posts about someone.

Point isn't to separate vouches like skilling/gold/upgrades/etc.. Just actual trade ones and non trade ones.

 

[Nytrix]

+1 for Punkerpunk13.

I believe vouches should ONLY be given after a successful transaction.

As far as the "good person" vouches go, I believe it should be limited to OMM applications ONLY, rather than on the users actual "vouch thread".

 

[burny]

A vouch signifies trust whether it has a trade or not. Honestly a "vouch" system should be stricter than a feedback system. If you have enough trust to "vouch" for someone your name should go on the line (partially) for their actions as well.

 

+1 punker. Newcomers and such WILL look at vouch count to decide if someone is trusted. If someones thread says 100+ vouches, but only a handful of these are completed trades, a friend or someone they've spoken to a few times and asked to post "he's a good guy, I trust him" doesn't really mean to say that the guy/girl wont scam. Vouches are there to reassure that a member can be trusted to trade, whether that's the dictionary definition or not. OMM recommendations are completely unrelated and shouldn't really be in a vouch thread. If someone sees you have a MM thread they're likely to check that out anyway before trading. It's not going to affect me in any way really, I just think it'd reduce confusion and what not.

 

[Slash GnR]

Interesting thing youve noticed, Read a few posts by otheres on this thread, and well true vouches ,are quality > quantity, but one the same hand. I honestly believe if you have "more vouches" people would overlook the quality, for example, see a few vouches in the start, maybe a few randoms in mid, and then a few in the end, really doubtfull that ANYONE at ALL looks at ALL the vouches, (not for someone with like 100 vouches+ anyway). So it does make a huge impact, and if someone got his friends to vouch for him etc, it could certainly lead to terrible things..

Support for punkerpunk.

 

[satanboy666]

i agree with punker,this is kinda stupid tbh.

 

[kingsleyeng]

thank you

especially those people that do like a train quest/skill service for free for like lvl 3-20 for example and they get vouches for skills training