Vouches..

[Punkerpunk13]

Okay, well recently I've seen alot of people with vouch counts that are just incredibly insane.. People with like 300 vouches that never trade and such.. I can't for the life of me understand how that's happening..

I go look into their vouch threads, you know, make sure everything's okay.

I see things like this in their vouch threads..

http://sythe.org/showpost.php?p=10510273&postcount=22 , http://sythe.org/showpost.php?p=10513231&postcount=25 (he's got a vouch from him for the same trade like 2 vouches above this one on his thread). I could go on for ages..

If people are counting things like this for vouches, I personally should have like 1500 vouches, other people have like 2000+, etc..

I've always been taught that when you do a trade, you get a vouch, you put it on your thread.. That's how you build a rep.

Apparently now you can just get friends to post on your threads for you and you gain vouches that way? Come on, that's kind of crazy..

I just feel that the vouch system should be more specified.. I mean, every time you look at somebody with so many vouches, you think their trusted, (newcomers do atleast). How are people going to point out the non-trusted ones and the trusted ones?

 

[SmperFidelis]

I see what you are trying to say, but remember, it's not the quantity, it's the quality of these vouches. If I was judging someone based on vouches, I would take in vouches like the ones I received that you linked in the OP into account, just not as much as say, a 1B trade with the other user going first.

A vouch is just positive feedback towards a user. Anyone can receive feedback for anything, whether it is being nice towards someone, helping them transfer GP, recommending them for OMM, or just a straight trade. It's mainly a personal aspect whether you want to count positive feedback as a vouch.

 

[Karl]

Just seems like he's using them for his OMM support, which, by the way.. they're giving.. whats wrong with that?


Can you provide proof of others doing this instead of just one person? we're not going to generalise a rule because of one person.


//5k posts!

 

[Punkerpunk13]

Just seems like he's using them for his OMM support, which, by the way.. they're giving.. whats wrong with that?


Can you provide proof of others doing this instead of just one person? we're not going to generalise a rule because of one person.


//5k posts!

Nate even used to do it. I can find numeruos people. Give me a min.

http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1043592 - some at lower.

 

[Karl]

Nate even used to do it. I can find numeruos people. How many people you want me to find? lol

I just dont see the issue, trust is subjective, vouch count doesnt mean everything.

 

[Punkerpunk13]

I just dont see the issue, trust is subjective, vouch count doesnt mean everything.

Doesn't mean everything, but it has a huge impact. I've found like 3 high vouch count people that do it.

bsgpseller, i_dont_bot, smperfields or w/e

http://sythe.org/showthread.php?p=10621228#post10621228 the third link.

If somebody was trading with somebody that had 1000 vouches half of which being things like these and there was another person with 500. I guarantee that the 1000 vouch person would get more sales. It comes to a point where you can't just look at all of them, and just have to look at a few + go on the judgement of the vouch count.

 

[Punjabi3]

I just dont see the issue, trust is subjective, vouch count doesnt mean everything.

It's still misleading though, the vouch appearing on a OMM application should be fine but it shouldn't appear in a vouch thread imo, if somebodies done 10 middlemans so has about 20 vouches but assume is a well known member. Obviously people will go "vouch for ....." and with 100 people doing that it would mean you would have 120 vouches, where usually it would be 20 on your thread. Yes people should look at the quality of the vouch but its misleading to put vouches from OMM applications which weren't actually from middlemanning in your vouch thread because you are increasing the number and to be honest people look at numbers of quality. Also most people ask people for recommendations in their OMM application and most recommendations can be seen as vouches.

 

[Punkerpunk13]

It's still misleading though, the vouch appearing on a OMM application should be fine but it shouldn't appear in a vouch thread imo, if somebodies done 10 middlemans so has about 20 vouches but assume is a well known member. Obviously people will go "vouch for ....." and with 100 people doing that it would mean you would have 120 vouches, where usually it would be 20 on your thread. Yes people should look at the quality of the vouch but its misleading to put vouches from OMM applications which weren't actually from middlemanning in your vouch thread because you are increasing the number and to be honest people look at numbers of quality. Also most people ask people for recommendations in their OMM application and most recommendations can be seen as vouches.

Not to mention that this isn't just from OMM apps. This happens from people just bumping up others threads when they create a new thread.

 

[JamRsPins]

Shouldn't count for anything more than a bump on an OMM application, and I doubt it does. I think most people just do that as a gesture of courtesy or support. Hell I even did that for RsProd earlier, he didn't ask, probably hasn't saw yet, but he was helpful in getting some douche banned. I didn't post it thinking it would sway the decision either. Doubt the admin take these into consideration anyway. If people used these for their actual vouch threads.. now that would be lame :|

 

[video]

I've had issues with this as well. IMO vouches for trades that occurred are the only ones you should be counting toward a vouch total, and people shouldn't be vouching each other just because they're friends, or because they THINK the other person is trusted, which happens A LOT.

If you haven't actually traded the person you're vouching, you shouldn't be vouching them

 

[Imagine]

I've had issues with this as well. IMO vouches for trades that occurred are the only ones you should be counting toward a vouch total, and people shouldn't be vouching each other just because they're friends, or because they THINK the other person is trusted, which happens A LOT.

If you haven't actually traded the person you're vouching, you shouldn't be vouching them

I agree with this, however, I feel like vouches on threads should be fine, but only vouches for actual trades should be included on your vouch thread.

 

[Sypherz]

Well, my standpoint has already been described in posts above, but I think i'll post my feedback here anyway.

I feel as though the idea of a vouch should be fairly lenient, but in certain situations a line must be drawn. We all know and understand that a vouch should not me falsified or manipulated. We know that you can not have a friend vouch for you or request a vouch.

I'll move on to a different page.
All in all, the point of a vouch page is to induce a certain form of manipulation. Note that I am not using that word in a negative context. Your goal with this page is, in nearly all cases, to convince a potential trade partner to "trust" you. This is where the idea of dishonesty plays into it-- a form of manipulation in the worst of context. The reason we do not allow "false vouching", etc. is to prevent users from being swayed into a false sense of trust via. this dishonesty.

Is fluffing up your vouch page with meaningless vouches not dishonest though? In my opinion, it is still a practice intended to manipulate users into this sense of integrity, only this time without any actual evidence of trust.

I would categorize this technique of fluffing up a vouch page under the dishonest tactics of self-vouching and exaggerating vouches.

On a slightly unrelated note, we all know where those "OMM app support vouches" actually belong. They should stay there. "Vouches" regarding the character of a certain user which are not OMM references and were not preceded by a trade do not belong on any page.

 

[cosrob97]

Recommendations that don't have the word vouch shouldn't be in a vouch threads...

 

[Sypherz]

I think that vouches in a thread should actually be backed by something. Even if they say vouch.

 

[Alteranz]

A Vouch is another person indicating that they have a level of trust for a member - it's sole purpose is to show others that particular members trust you, regardless of whether or not it's associated with an actual trade.
I just don't see it as an issue here? I trust Karl, and I'd probably trust him with a rather large sum of wealth, but I shouldn't have to complete a trade to let others know I have faith and confidence in him.

 

[Apith]

When a friend would vouch for me, or recommend me for a trade on my thread, I never put it on my vouch thread. Even if it has the word "Vouch" in it. I only put vouches in my vouch thread when I successfully do a trade with another individual, and they leave me a vouch.

There are a few people that's vouched for me more than once on my threads, I know that those do not belong in my vouch thread, it's to show the people that are interested in trading with me that the person who recommend/vouched for me actually trusts me.

I believe there should be a stricter rule when it comes to vouches. I have seen 2 people, partners in business, sharing vouches. It was pretty stupid considering one of those vouches would take an hour and can be done by 1 person easily, but in the end they both use it. Regardless if the satisfied customer stated the other skiller's name. I've seen this happen more than once. If this was allowed, ad I don't think they were ever caught, then I would make a free skilling service with 10 users, and we would get hundreds of vouches easily.

 

[Punkerpunk13]

A Vouch is another person indicating that they have a level of trust for a member - it's sole purpose is to show others that particular members trust you, regardless of whether or not it's associated with an actual trade.
I just don't see it as an issue here? I trust Karl, and I'd probably trust him with a rather large sum of wealth, but I shouldn't have to complete a trade to let others know I have faith and confidence in him.

So if you trust him so much, that he has numerous active threads, and you say on each that i vouch for karl etc etc to the point where it's like 30 diff times. he should count all of those to a vouch count?

it's what's happening, but more of a smaller scale.

 

[FireZ]

Conducting a trade has no relevance to whether you can vouch or not. I'd vouch for people I know personally > traders I have dealt with once in awhile.

 

[Sypherz]

A Vouch is another person indicating that they have a level of trust for a member - it's sole purpose is to show others that particular members trust you, regardless of whether or not it's associated with an actual trade.
I just don't see it as an issue here? I trust Karl, and I'd probably trust him with a rather large sum of wealth, but I shouldn't have to complete a trade to let others know I have faith and confidence in him.

Conducting a trade has no relevance to whether you can vouch or not. I'd vouch for people I know personally > traders I have dealt with once in awhile.

It's different when smaller scale users, though, are collecting worthless vouches for the purpose of gaining trust. How is that safe for our community?

 

[Punkerpunk13]

Conducting a trade has no relevance to whether you can vouch or not. I'd vouch for people I know personally > traders I have dealt with once in awhile.

It's not the matter of actually vouching them, i understand that, but there should be a difference between recommendation vouches & trade vouches.. not both should be counted on threads + titles. one should be displayed freely maybe in a sig, on the thread (trading or vouch), etc but not in actual vouch count..