[Denied] Punish/enforce mass spamming of Discord servers

So this is not the first, second or third time that is has happend, and I still wonder why there isn’t any punishment to this.

Talking about this, but there are several more laying around:
Cutter having workers DM in other service discords

Often when this happens, it’s not the owner which makes it okay to do that misstake? But again, why should a worker do a mass spam without getting a direction from someone; shouldn’t the worker just be working?

Again, this is not just to highlight this case, but I think it is way to easy for servicers to blame and point on someone who “doesn’t know the rules”.

 

Well yeah, he might need some more work, but that doesn’t mean that he will get the orders - unless the owner ironicly promised him that.

I would suggest like a 1-2 day market ban for the owner, and if the owner is to blame, asking his workers to do it, then either a longer ban or TWC.

 

In an Employer/Employee relationship there is what we call "Vicarious Liability" which means that the employer is directly responsible for the actions of their employees while that employee is representing the employer.

If the employee makes an error, the employer is ultimately responsible for any damages that error created.
So I support this.

 

Support, we've had tons of other service providers spam our general chat and pms, unfortunately one of our workers thought it was allowed and did the same... But i support.

 

Ok, so what I'm hearing is if I want to open a service that I advertise on Sythe and get a worker who does not have a Sythe account/involved with Sythe themselves to spam random users in other discords (that are specifcally not the Sythe discord), I cannot/will not be punished?

If this is the case why do we punish gold sites that have workers scam who aren't on Sythe? The gold site is advertised, the owner of the gold site is vouching for their worker, and the owner is the one punished, even after paying out usually given a TWC or DNT rank. I don't understand why 1 is ok but the other one isn't. They both break rules held by this site that the owners agree to when by creating an account and posting their services.

 

Think of Sythe as a conduit for business. If an issue does not affect users through Sythe, then we generally don't punish for it. If an issue does affect users through Sythe, then we generally do punish for it. There are always going to be exceptions to this guidance, but generally it holds true.

So we wouldn't punish in your first example (unless it was an extreme case) because that activity is all off-site. A Sythe user idling in a random, non-Sythe discord doesn't count as a "through Sythe" situation. However, we would punish in your second example because 1) scamming is way more severe than spam messaging, and 2) it directly affects Sythe members on-site in this case.

If you're thinking about a specific case we can try to be more specific, but hopefully that helps.

 

I mean it is a conduit, but it is a conduit with a few basic rules. I right now am going to go hire a random Venezuelan (from a server that has previously been advertised in the Sythe discord), who has no Sythe account. I am going to pay them to go into every service discord advertised on both Sythe and its Discord, except the Sythe discord itself, but have no Sythe account. I am then going to have them wait long enough to bypass restrictions in place to DM everyone in all those service discords at the exact same time. It will be a spammy message, saying I will beat anyone's price, etc etc. I myself have not spammed anyone, I have not broken any Sythe rules, so I shall come out fine correct? No business was done through Sythe. I did not specifically target the individual Sythe members. But ultimately they were affected by a Sythe members actions.

And to your first point about scamming being worse than spam messaging, it is like stealing versus soliciting on private property. Both illegal, but unless either of them are big enough issues most of the time law enforcement won't usually care. "Law enforcement" on this site cares about the smallest scams, so just wondering why it seems to be an issue to uphold all the rules. Or at least make them more clear so they cannot be abused.

I mean yea, but we also know, regardless of what you call it, it still ends up being a punishment.

If you break my window, I'll call the police. If I receive unsolicited calls I can also report it to the government because the government also says I shouldn't receive unsolicited calls. If I receive a spam call (that I can prove came from a company within my country), regardless of what the individual believes, if I can prove it was a company within that governments jurisdiction that company can be punished.

 

The scenario you proposed technically isn't against the rules, but we would probably tell you to stop if you kept it up. Obviously if you were to keep ignoring this advice we might punish for it.

If you're looking for a rule/verbiage change, making that clear might help the discussion. I don't think Yoshiki mishandled your report.

 

I'm not doubting Yoshiki's decision itself. We all know once a decision is made, without extenuating circumstances, it won't be changed. This whole thread was about a rule not being implemented. Your's/Blasses posts were basically explaining why you don't/won't implement the rules. This type of thing has happened quite a bit before, and will happen again sometime in the future. At what point does it become too much and cause enough harm to other's businesses that it has to be a problem taken care of? I no longer work for @VirtGold, and wasn't working for him for quite a while before the report. I made the report because I knew I wasn't the only one being DM'd, and at what point does it become harming someone's versus being harmless spam? How many other people are spammed before a single report is made?

I'm not trying to call out @Cutter specifically, I'm simply using him/his team as an example because I had first hand experience with it. If the outcome of the rules is changed I don't want/expect any punishment to be retroactive.

 

But it does not happen off-site, as all the service providers are using Sythe mainly and however you want to put it, then almost every “big” provider has threads with no information than joining their Discord server?
So when they use Sythe to only promote their Discord server, then it is off-site? Na, that’s not right.

 

I don’t say that we should punish things like this Meatballz spamming , eventho I have to admit that @LordZuku has some sort of claim.

 

This basically sums it up. Obviously if people take things too far we'll encourage them not to spam off-site, but you should have your own protections in place as well.