[denied] Replace "Vouch" with "Review"

[President]

Describe the problem: The word "vouch" is outdated; everywhere else on the internet, including sites like Trustpilot, the term "review" is used. Unfortunately, it’s no longer 2007, and we have to move with the times.

What current rule(s) tackle this problem: Amongst others, rename the Vouches forum (Vouches Forum) to "Reviews."

Explain the change: Reviews are also a more neutral term, implying that negative feedback (as long as it’s substantiated) is permitted, which more accurately describes the status quo. A "negative vouch" sounds self‑contradictory, whereas a "negative review" is within reason.

Explain why this change will fix the problem: No further explanation needed.

Side‑effects: It may stop some users from thirld-world countries from confusing "vouch" with "voucher." A big win.

 

Agreed; vouching someone is like referring a friend. Reviewing is pretty much the way you review a trade in specific.

 

[xKyyL]

Support. Vouch is more like backdoor slang these days.

 

i support
reviews is more `descriptive word`

 

The issue here is that vouch pages were built on positive feedback only.
If we were to change the term to feedback, users might think they can leave negative feedback to users vouch threads.
I'm unsure if you're suggesting to allow that as well, but if so that in itself is on the "Do not suggest" list.

 

No support.

For the third world country employees who do not understand vouch from voucher, their boss should buy them Rosetta Stone and teach them English if they plan to do business with people who primarily speak English. That issue sounds like an employer issue and not something Sythe.org should have to account for and fix.

Vouch is not an outdated term, many other reputable websites/groups still use this term and process to give their users selling reputation.

If they were to implement it here it would more likely require a new module/plugin for the site where a review system could be placed in that appears on a user profile and under their name on post. With some of the similar markets that use this type of system, I never really see the negative feedback (in which you are referencing above that people could give) on a scammers and/or poor business practices users account. Those sites still make users report them through a thread and then that feedback never shows and/or makes it to their profile. So ultimately it's a waste of time cause only the positive feedback is showing.

Also with negative reviews you now allow biased information to enter the market based off emotions rather then facts/proof. An example of this is I could leave a negative review for a user/shop because they banned me from their business discord with the reason of the owner just has a personal disliking for me. So I leave a negative review for bad customer service and now that just starts a pisser on the forums over that review.


I'm going to say what everyone answer to similar suggestions about community improvement for safety to users. Anyone can search a user on the forums using the search function. So if there are reports that could implement "negative reviews" then it's up to the user to do their research first.

 

[TradeMyGIM]

sounds retarded ngl

 

Support, this isn't the exact solution but it does seem a step in the right direction. I was going to suggest a 1-5 star system but technically this would fall under "negative review" as pointed out by Zora

Hopefully conversation here can spark an idea to move in the correct direction

 

No support.

Also with negative reviews you now allow biased information to enter the market based off emotions rather then facts/proof

no bias negative reviews, only bias positive reviews. nice one champ.

 

no bias negative reviews, only bias positive reviews. nice one champ.

I'm not sure what exactly you are saying here. But negative reviews can be biased. I can leave one just cause I do not like the person running a business and nothing to do with the business at all.

Example: I leave Starbucks a negative review everyday on Google and I never once stepped foot in there or order from them. But yet I affect their ratings on Google.

So yes you can have biased negative reviews.

And positive reviews are not alaway biased.

 

I'm not sure what exactly you are saying here. But negative reviews can be biased. I can leave one just cause I do not like the person running a business and nothing to do with the business at all.

Example: I leave Starbucks a negative review everyday on Google and I never once stepped foot in there or order from them. But yet I affect their ratings on Google.

So yes you can have biased negative reviews.

And positive reviews are not alaway biased.

Positive reviews can also be biased.
When 90% of the vouch forum are essentially bullshit bias reviews that are like ‘sold him 4b thanks!’

A new buyer could get the interpretation that this guy is to potentially be trusted with up to 4b with a false sense of security due to bias vouches.

It’s never in my benefit as a gold seller to say thanks for the trade he gave me the gp first and then I paid him since it could potentially lose me future deals with that person

 

Positive reviews can also be biased.
When 90% of the vouch forum are essentially bullshit bias reviews that are like ‘sold him 4b thanks!’

A new buyer could get the interpretation that this guy is to potentially be trusted with up to 4b with a false sense of security due to bias vouches.

It’s never in my benefit as a gold seller to say thanks for the trade he gave me the gp first and then I paid him since it could potentially lose me future deals with that person

Well I believe that you (and others potentially in this thread) do not understand what the word vouch definition is. According to Oxford Language, A vouch is confirm as a result of one's own experience that something is true or accurately so described.

So yes when people leave vouches saying sold them 4b is an accurate vouch. If another user conflicts a vouch with with a way to determine what they feel a user is safe of holding and/or doing business with them that is up to that user.

If your buyers do not like vouches that accurately depicted a trade, then I would say that they have alternative motives.

 

I'm not opposed to opening the door to negative feedback and changing vouches to reviews.

 

According to Oxford Language, A vouch is confirm as a result of one's own experience that something is true or accurately so described.

so we can write "+vouch this seller is a fucking moron who made me wait 3 hours"
= 100% valid (confirmed experience, accurately described)

"+vouch got scammed for 4b, screenshots attached"
= textbook vouch (truthful account per Oxford)

nowhere does it state that vouches have to be positive in the rules [Section Rules] Vouches

 

I looked at a handful of the black-market discords that I'm in. Many of them use "vouch." There are also other web-based platforms similar to Sythe that use "vouch."

Also - Sythe's "Vouches Forum" subsection has 51,500 threads. Wouldn't implementation be a problem? All of those thread titles would have to be changed.

I don't really see a reason to change it, at this time.

 

I agree with you 100% sometimes people think it’s voucher.

 

[CuppaJava]

so we can write "+vouch this seller is a fucking moron who made me wait 3 hours"
= 100% valid (confirmed experience, accurately described)

"+vouch got scammed for 4b, screenshots attached"
= textbook vouch (truthful account per Oxford)

nowhere does it state that vouches have to be positive in the rules [Section Rules] Vouches

Pretty sure this is a misunderstanding of the definition. A vouch is confirming that the seller's goods/services are accurately described. Not that the buyer's experience is accurately described.

By definition a vouch is only "the outcome of the goods/services XYZ was as described".

Also if you get scammed & have proof they'll probably just be banned. No reason to include that in a "vouch" thread. Bad trading habits like making you wait a long time though, I suppose there's no where to really put that currently. Just bad for repeat business I guess.

 

Pretty sure this is a misunderstanding of the definition. A vouch is confirming that the seller's goods/services are accurately described. Not that the buyer's experience is accurately described.

By definition a vouch is only "the outcome of the goods/services XYZ was as described".

Also if you get scammed & have proof they'll probably just be banned. No reason to include that in a "vouch" thread. Bad trading habits like making you wait a long time though, I suppose there's no where to really put that currently. Just bad for repeat business I guess.

Many TWC’s have been issued over the years for poor business / trading practices.

 

[Sanjis]

Support.

Though i feel like there should be a star system so its not just "Yes" or "No" with a way to filter the ratings,
Like if a report is issued, thats a 1 star review but if it gets resolved it goes to a neutral review instead so future buyers could see
Instead of the report being archived / not associated with the seller in a direct way


Edit: no one should have 100% positive feedback

 

Pretty sure this is a misunderstanding of the definition. A vouch is confirming that the seller's goods/services are accurately described. Not that the buyer's experience is accurately described.

By definition a vouch is only "the outcome of the goods/services XYZ was as described".

Also if you get scammed & have proof they'll probably just be banned. No reason to include that in a "vouch" thread. Bad trading habits like making you wait a long time though, I suppose there's no where to really put that currently. Just bad for repeat business I guess.

This is exactly my thinking on this.

Many TWC’s have been issued over the years for poor business / trading practices.

Exactly - if there is proof that there is bad or poor business practices going on and a report is made with sufficient evidence, the staff team will be able to place these TWCs on accounts.

The great thing about a forum is that there is a search function that should be used prior to any business is conducted so that you can go through RaS sections and see if there are any reports, etc. I agree that not anyone should have 100% feedback but in the markets that we are dealing with, a vouch =/= feedback.