Do not permanent ban scammers.

[SuF]

That is a good point chip (the second part), but if they don't get caught, and that never comes up... we're not all the wiser. It'd be the way it is now, except once they do get caught, punishments would be slightly different.

Paying the person back is a good thing, will it happen? Not necessarily, but I really don't think it has to for them to make retribution. Let's say I have 50 vouches on my Sythe account, all of them legit. I've been a member for 4 months. I have 500 posts, and no infractions. I get greedy one time, and scam a guy out of $50. I get caught, and banned.

My punishment is determined that 6 months ban, and never being allowed to trade again until I pay back what I stole, and even then I'd have a twc and be a known scammer so people would be extra cautious around me. I'd still receive a 6 month ban, however, but paying back the person will be a reasonable thought in my head after I get unbanned.

All of that more than makes up for the $50 I stole, think about the work I put into my account, honestly, I'd feel compelled to pay the person back in that circumstance just so I could continue doing business. And if I don't pay the person back, I'll have dealt with a 6 month temp, and not being allowed to trade at all.

Sounds more than fair. Granted, that scenario isn't what will happen in each case, but it's a pretty good example.

Right now, when scammers are permanent banned, they have no desire to pay the person back because they don't think they'll get their account back. However, if they know they'll get their account back, they'll just be badly labeled and no one will ever trust them, then the incentive to pay back the person they scammed will be something they consider.



You just suggested practically everything we did. And you probably didn't read the thread as there's a lot of reasoning in allowing a scammer to come back to the site. We're not allowing them to re-offend, we're preventing that. We're just determining what an appropriate punishment may be.



That's basically what is being discussed. Scamming punishments should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, and not just be a permanent ban for each one.

I like the idea of a case by case basis for every scammer but it just can't happen. There are too many scams that go around to go into depth with each ban. Something that might work is a kind of unofficial system that gives guidelines of what punishments people deserve. Like, if they are a leecher and scam someone a quick IP check should be done and if they have other accounts that have also been banned for scamming then a perm ban for them could be in order. However, the idea there could be is you are free to dispute after a certain amount of time and you could be given another chance after the mods look around and see if it seems like you have scammed anyone else type deal.

Or if someone who is trusted scams someone, then it could be a temp ban for awhile with things like you said. I just think that having guidelines for the staff would make things much easier on them and much more fair if we are letting them decide what punishments people get. This would take a bit of work to get done and implemented, but I think we need to do it to keep the community together.

 

[talkingtaco2]

It all depends on opportunity, if a thief went into a shop and the cash register had $5 in it he/she would take that $5 now if the register had $1000 in it, are you saying that the thief would only take $5 out of it?

 

[SuF]

It all depends on opportunity, if a thief went into a shop and the cash register had $5 in it he/she would take that $5 now if the register had $1000 in it, are you saying that the thief would only take $5 out of it?

I have no idea what your saying.

 

[talkingtaco2]

I'm not saying Sythe is the real world, and I'm not justifying the actions of scammers or criminals, I am saying, however, that a case-by-case review of the offense should be considered, and punishment should be in accordance with this.

A response to this, eg. A member is planing to scam pins, If for example, a bulk seller said he would go first in selling 5 pins to a member, the member would then scam 5 pins. Now in another scenario the seller is selling 30 pins to this member, are you saying that this member would scam 5 pins and pay for the extra 25?

 

[Bow_0f_Mercy]

No support. People that scam don't deserve to be on the site at all.

This ^

 

[SuF]

This ^

Why???

 

[burny]

If a scammer wants back into the site they make a new account with a proxy. The people who come back and pay the person scammed compensation are 10x less likely to scam, honestly some people spend hours a day getting their post count up;they deserve that fucking $20 from someone stupid enough to give it to them. Unless sythe is going to start asking us to register with identification then perm bans don't solve the problem.

 

[SuF]

If a scammer wants back into the site they make a new account with a proxy. The people who come back and pay the person scammed compensation are 10x less likely to scam, honestly some people spend hours a day getting their post count up;they deserve that fucking $20 from someone stupid enough to give it to them. Unless sythe is going to start asking us to register with identification then perm bans don't solve the problem.

Education is the way to stop the problem. Perming people makes them just keep coming back since they know they have no chance to come back on their first account. Give them that chance, and they might change and not scam anymore.

 

[Vaporized]

Not sure my position on this, but most of the ban evaders that Skele and others have to deal with are scammers. Maybe if they are not so angry for getting they won't scam anymore? Granted the detection system is pretty good in catching vadors before they scam again. I don't know I guess..

Just a thought.

 

[i Maax i]

Lmao you gotta be kidding me? If you would get scammed by some pathetic kid you're basically telling me you wouldn't like him to be perm banned for stealing your money? You go in jail for scamming people you know?

 

[Nine Tailed Fox]

For the assholes that say

No support, scammer is scammer.

Do us a favor and SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

Damn public schools are fucking ridiculous allowing idiots to pass years. So while we're at it retards, lets ban Finn right? dumbasses.

On Topic: I agree some scammers should be let back. Why? Because people change. That same scammer could turn out to be a very valuable member.

 

[Karl]

For the assholes that say Do us a favor and SHUT THE FUCK UP!!

Damn public schools are fucking ridiculous allowing idiots to pass years. So while we're at it retards, lets ban Finn right? dumbasses.

On Topic: I agree some scammers should be let back. Why? Because people change. That same scammer could turn out to be a very valuable member.

Hence, The High Pardon Forums

IF they've changed, they can ask for a pardon. End of.

 

[Weasel2013]

Hence, The High Pardon Forums

IF they've changed, they can ask for a pardon.

This. I don't support this the way you've stated it...They could turn out to be valuable, or they could seem valuable until they have another oppurtunity to scam. Leave it up to the admins to decide who comes back and who doesn't.

 

[Deacon Frost]

Lmao you gotta be kidding me? If you would get scammed by some pathetic kid you're basically telling me you wouldn't like him to be perm banned for stealing your money? You go in jail for scamming people you know?

http://www.freelegaladvicehelp.com/criminal-lawyer/misdemeanor/Penalty-For-Misdemeanor-Theft.html

Clearly you're an idiot. You do not serve a life sentence for stealing someone's account on a video game that's not even worth a few hundred dollars. Nevertheless, most scams that occur aren't even worth $50. Honestly, permanently banning these people is unjust and not helping the problem at all, it's actually making it worse.

You punish them based on the amount of money they scammed, or equal to value, and then you limit them for a while, while letting them post. If you permanent ban them, they'll just ban evade/ddos the site causing more and more problems. Sure, some users deserve a permanent ban for repeated offenses and abuse of the system, but most do not and most can be reformed given the chance and stricter regulations.

I understand that this is a forum, and what works in real life will not always work on the forums, but this will work. Users are banned for something they did wrong, they get the chance to see what they're missing, and then they get to come back and rejoin the community. The incentive to scam again is generally less by that point. Not to mention, the opportunity to scam is much lower on that account.

 

[Karl]

http://www.freelegaladvicehelp.com/criminal-lawyer/misdemeanor/Penalty-For-Misdemeanor-Theft.html

Clearly you're an idiot. You do not serve a life sentence for stealing someone's account on a video game that's not even worth a few hundred dollars. Nevertheless, most scams that occur aren't even worth $50. Honestly, permanently banning these people is unjust and not helping the problem at all, it's actually making it worse.

You punish them based on the amount of money they scammed, or equal to value, and then you limit them for a while, while letting them post. If you permanent ban them, they'll just ban evade/ddos the site causing more and more problems. Sure, some users deserve a permanent ban for repeated offenses and abuse of the system, but most do not and most can be reformed given the chance and stricter regulations.

I understand that this is a forum, and what works in real life will not always work on the forums, but this will work. Users are banned for something they did wrong, they get the chance to see what they're missing, and then they get to come back and rejoin the community. The incentive to scam again is generally less by that point. Not to mention, the opportunity to scam is much lower on that account.

So your saying we should give into them? , "They scam but hey lets not ban them just incase they attack the site ilegally" ?

 

[OstridgeSlayer]

No support, scammer's should all be dealt with in a ban sentence, I would not want someone who's even scammed 5$ trading with me.

 

[FireZ]

Problem is you can't tell whos going to change and who hasn't.

What you gonna do about those serial ban evaders, the people I've banned more the 5 times each. And believe me I got a few on my list. What would you do to ensure they don't slip through the cracks?

 

[Deacon Frost]

So your saying we should give into them? , "They scam but hey lets not ban them just incase they attack the site ilegally" ?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the way we treat them is inhumane and should be corrected. Two wrongs do not make a right.

No support, scammer's should all be dealt with in a ban sentence, I would not want someone who's even scammed 5$ trading with me.

Scammers will be banned, but they should not be permanently banned. Please read up to previous posts.

Problem is you can't tell whos going to change and who hasn't.

What you gonna do about those serial ban evaders, the people I've banned more the 5 times each. And believe me I got a few on my list. What would you do to ensure they don't slip through the cracks?

That is correct, it would be difficult to know who will change and who will not. Putting a stricter leash on those who scam and make it so it's much more difficult for them to do so will allow them to interact with the community still, but not engage in anything which would give them the chance to scam again. If they are to be unbanned I would support a user title that says something like "Scammer", a "Trade with Caution" rank, a Market ban, and removal of signature and private messaging capabilities.

Repeat offenders should not be given the chance to return. Harsher sentences can be enforced on the forums simply because being banned is nothing like being in prison, and reform may take a while longer. If you ban a member for scamming for 6 months, and they never ban evade, never come up in any drama, or anything like that, then they should be given the chance to reintegrate with the forums on a much smaller scale (above restrictions applied).

I already support 1 account per IP address, so I don't see how this would affect that at all.

 

[xxpayaamxx]

I'm sorry, scammers are scammers. They are doing inhumane things just to gain a little out of it, usually JUST pixels; items or objects that aren't even real. They shouldn't be aloud in such a large trading community that has new traders that would be vunerable.

In fact, scammers should be I.P. banned

 

[Jellito]

I'm sorry, scammers are scammers. They are doing inhumane things just to gain a little out of it, usually JUST pixels; items or objects that aren't even real. They shouldn't be aloud in such a large trading community that has new traders that would be vunerable.

In fact, scammers should be I.P. banned

you obviously dont know much about computers,
I.P. can be changed.