[denied] Allow Sniping or Disallow it entirely.

[Red Fox]

Motivation: 07Services - Stealing Discord Vanity URL

We should either get rid of the name sniping rules (if we allow vanity sniping) or disallow both.
The two are so similar, what makes it okay to snipe a OSRS RSN, but not a discord vanity? They basically fall under the same category.

Regarding copy rights and illegality, the rebuttle is quite easy - the ratione behind name sniping rules are not copyright and illegality rules, yet we still consider it morally wrong in our market.

Even Jagex allows name sniping, yet Sythe disallows it. This rule stems from Sythe's morality. We consider it to being morally wrong to the point, there's a rule for sniping RSNs. We should think the same for vanity links.

The main argument stems from morality. We consider that name sniping is morally wrong to the point that we need rules against this, then we should think the same for URL sniping.

We can fix it by either disallowing both or allowing both.

 

A lot of good points were raised here and in the Discord:

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities
Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

I’ll type out more in a different post once I’m off mobile. For now, I believe that if it’s done right and fair this suggestion would be good for business owners and the community.

 

[Red Fox]

A lot of good points were raised here and in the Discord:

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities
Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

I’ll type out more in a different post once I’m off mobile. For now, I believe that if it’s done right and fair this suggestion would be good for business owners and the community.

Difficult, edit to some Imgur links or something (maybe it's just me)

 

[President]

Support

So basically there are two questions that need to be answered here:

1. Are osrs name sniping and vanity URL sniping so similar that they should be treated the same (in my opinion: yes)?
2. Should they both be disallowed?

To answer the second question: name sniping is not prohibited by any legal rules. So the question becomes a moral one. Do we believe that name sniping is inherently wrong? Either path can be taken here

 

A lot of good points were raised here and in the Discord:

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities
Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

I’ll type out more in a different post once I’m off mobile. For now, I believe that if it’s done right and fair this suggestion would be good for business owners and the community.

Nice attempt at phishing buddy, please turn these into images.
Cannot believe you were a software developer for 13 years and worked on Military Defense Systems and NATO only to try and phish people on Sythe. Pathetic.

 

On topic: It's different for RSNs as you can track them completely, but you cannot track when a vanity url is going to expire afaik. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Also, what happens in the following scenario:

Service 1 = PvMServices
Service 2 = PvMGames

PvMServices has the url "/PvM" but PvM is wanting that url as well. They look up the vanity and it seems to be free (coincidentally expired for PvMServices), would this not be allowed?

It will be impossible to enforce this.

 

[President]

On topic: It's different for RSNs as you can track them completely, but you cannot track when a vanity url is going to expire afaik. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Also, what happens in the following scenario:

Service 1 = PvMServices
Service 2 = PvMGames

PvMServices has the url "/PvM" but PvM is wanting that url as well. They look up the vanity and it seems to be free (coincidentally expired for PvMServices), would this not be allowed?

It will be impossible to enforce this.

Expiration is not the only way a vanity URL becomes available. There's also the hot and trending 'nuke the server', button that can be pushed.

As to your second question: it depends on the rules set specifically for the vanity URL's. I'd say it's outside the scope of this suggestion. This suggestion merely proposes to fix an (alleged) inconsistency. And even if we have rules, there will always be uncertainties and variables that will require case-by-case rulings

 

Will all ppls who got banned for name snipping be unbanned if this pass =? (@BlackBlasses @pingy can you see this lmaooo they will free 50+ of our alts)


Also can't wait to see all big name sellers adding some rare already snipped names for sale they wont have to fake it anymore how they bought it from some random guy on random platform

But ya support

 

When it comes to morals, I believe it is wrong to name snipe, but we need to remember name sniping by definition is intercepting a name IMMEDIATELY or in SECONDS that was intended to be traded or passed between two people or one person between their accounts. Grabbing expired names is NOT against the rules (aka open to claim names that anyone in game can claim at anytime) and I do this often as do others. The Discord Vanity wasn't really sniped (by definition of RS name sniping, whether or not it was wrong is up for debate), when the server was deleted, anyone had the chance at claiming the URL. Whether or not MyPvm was targeted by OSRS Services cannot sadly be proven for sure despite how obvious it may be. To me discord vanity stuff falls under the expired name category as technically ANYONE could of claimed it once the server got taken down, although OSRS Services could of had a bot ready to snipe it, but how can that be proven? A similar example would be if an account is banned on RS, and they have a rare previous name, that name will eventually release, and its first come first serve and there is no way of determining exactly the release time.

An interesting point to bring up regarding this topic

Another website that shall not be named, has a very interesting rule regarding sniping. The rules say you can snipe as long as you weren't intentionally targeting anyone onsite (so in this case Sythe). You would need to prove you weren't specifically targeting said person and if this cannot be proven, the name would need to be returned. If its proven you didn't intend to snipe their name (aka you were using some sort of program etc or you didnt know they owned said name) its fine and not wrong and you wouldn't have to give them their name back.

So I guess the question is, would this be considered Name Sniping as it is within RSN sales, or is it considered "fair game" if it was "released/open to claim" when the server was deleted?

I do think the discord vanity situation looks and feels wrong and I feel for @MyPvM , but where is the line drawn and the rule solidified? Its a complicated subject to say the least.

 

I think it is in everyones interest that this should not be tolerated. Otherwise we will all have cousins/people not related to someone but advertise for you ready to reserve vanity urls.

I would also like to mention, that when the vanity of osrs services got taken, I wasn't in favour of it. IIRC they did not even report it otherwise I would have been in support of returning it. It is one thing to compete around clients (as they benefit from competition) and another thing to damage each other.

IMO the report (for now) opened the gate to do exactly this, and this will be a loss for everyone involved.
I am sure, there are people already reaching out to developers asking: How much for a bot sniping vanity urls and mass reporting a server? Can you deliver in 25 mins?

It will come down to who got the best developer/fastest bot.

As always there are ways around it, but do we really want to put each other in a spot where you basically have to do shit that doesn't a) bring you any money and b) actually cost you money?
With that being said, good luck to the smaller providers that do not have the time/people/finance to compete in this kind of environment. The hurdle to enter will be a lot higher.

Anyways, we will have an exciting time ahead of us with this type of stuff.

-Niki

 

[President]

If it is concluded that there needs to come a rule for vanity URL's, then here is a follow-up suggestion:

1. Ban the sniping of vanity URL's
2. Create a blacklist of sniped vanity URL's, disallow the use of an URL from that list. Note that this list will exclude (so PvM would not be included in the list, MyPvM would)

The idea behind this is to disincentivise sniping. Under Status-Quo, a sniped name has economic value, because it can be "sold-back" or used to "redirect". Under the new model, both of these options will be disallowed

 

So I guess the question is, would this be considered Name Sniping as it is within RSN sales, or is it considered "fair game" if it was "released/open to claim" when the server was deleted?

This is the response I took on discord as well.
This particular situation that is being highlighted imo is not a sniping situation.
The discord was banned making the name free reign.

RuneScape is very different when transferring names & sniped can happen within milliseconds, how can we determine this vanity was taken within milliseconds of the discord going down?
Also referring to rs, when your rs acc is banned you no longer have the username, it can’t be swapped (no there is a method to retrieve the name via social engineering, but this is besides the point)

would love for Mods to collaborate with woke individuals in the name market & write some real rules because it’s not just lacking, but getting input from users that have never seen the light of day in the name market.

 

[Unclepeter]

Support. Sniping shouldn't be a thing imo,it's hella scummy,but at the very least it shouldn't be turned into a ''grey area'' thing,either completely dissallow it or just allow it.

 

[Robiiiiin]

Support - Supriced it isnt a thing already.

No, nothing with recent happening, i would be as pissed on or off anyone.

Make it quick, it will happen more and more often as people try secure good once as when internet came and people secured good URLs.

 

RuneScape names have value (while not necessarily actual value in the real world) they are none the less worth money to some people. Vanities on the other hand do not.

Easy solution just don’t get sniped. Have back up systems and infrastructure in place to prevent it.

No support.

 

As much as I agree with 07 services argument, I would hate for this to happen to me. So I would support this.

 

[Robiiiiin]

RuneScape names have value (while not necessarily actual value in the real world) they are none the less worth money to some people. Vanities on the other hand do not.

Easy solution just don’t get sniped. Have back up systems and infrastructure in place to prevent it.

No support.

While i agree on the back up systems and infrastructure.. I think we all can agree on that certain vanities have value depending on name and is why "PVM" vanity was valued at 5k$ and the reasoning was that it can be used everywhere and for almost all games and that they see it risning in value with time like due to discord becoming more and more popular (yeah they valued it high to be asses also).

Same as URL's, people start to gather vanities to sell.

There almost multiple webpages where you can buy and sell them.

 

[President]

RuneScape names have value (while not necessarily actual value in the real world) they are none the less worth money to some people. Vanities on the other hand do not.

Easy solution just don’t get sniped. Have back up systems and infrastructure in place to prevent it.

No support.

If people pay for sponsorships, then discord vanity urls also have value as they can also be used for redirection

'Git good' argument doesn't work here, when your server can just get nuked and your vanity URL sniped by someone who invests in the resources to snipe it. If your response is "well, snipe it back yourself", then my answer is: do we really want to facilitate a shadow market for this stuff

 

If people pay for sponsorships, then discord vanity urls also have value as they can also be used for redirection

Would you like to inform others on how discord boosts work for getting your dream vanity?

On sythe you're not allowed to sell/advertise twitch prime accounts because it is considered black hat... but paying someone to boost your server using Hxxxxx cards is allowed?

Discord vanities do not have a value, there is no market for them and this is coming from someone with more outside market experience than 90% of these medieval mods
RSN's and discord vanities are on 2 different spectrums
Now discords NAMES there is actually a huge market for and that is very similar to runescape names



edit: so ur telling me buying h****d names is alright ayyyyyy @President

 

While i agree on the back up systems and infrastructure.. I think we all can agree on that certain vanities have value depending on name and is why "PVM" vanity was valued at 5k$ and the reasoning was that it can be used everywhere and for almost all games and that they see it risning in value with time like due to discord becoming more and more popular (yeah they valued it high to be asses also).

Same as URL's, people start to gather vanities to sell.

There almost multiple webpages where you can buy and sell them.

Artificial value is not value. I can sell gold for $8/m, doesn’t mean it’s valued at that.

I would assume the reason they ask for “$5k” is because they knew they were desperate, and the reason they didn’t pay $5k for it back is because they know it’s not worth it.