Understanding the DNT (Do Not Trade) rank

They can come back and scope the community for a bit before they decide if they want to repay? I am ok with people pardoning/DNT on offenses where there is no offender/victim scenario and no victim can get bitter. I just don't think its worth the security risk/bitterness of having scammers back on the site as an attempt to facilitate repayments. Most of these people are high profile manipulators. They aren't stupid.

Right so the people you talk about: why would they bother with DNT? They can just ban evade and they do.

Humans respond to incentives. Not all scam cases are black and white. Many are disputed contracts or sour relations. Think "X held gold for me and got hacked while holding it". Being completely shut out with no voice and no empathy on a black and white hard decision is completely alienating. If it happened to me I wouldn't want to come back.

They can find a way to scam again even with their new found restrictions. How hard is it for one of them to social engineer a newcomer to trade with them just based on their post count/join date? Not hard for them to log out to be able to view the market.

And again this has nothing to do with DNT. If they are going to ban evade they will do it regardless of the existence of the DNT system.

I think it at the very least make the community more comfortable with this if there was a thread that outlines all of the repayments.

I think it provides an avenue for victims to talk to the user who scammed them and arrange a repayment plan.

People who ask for DNT are expressing an interest in rejoining the community. To slam the door in their face is not going to improve any outcome for anyone.

 

[No Lifer]

Regardless of the outcome (it remaining/removed/changed drastically), the effort gone into this is nice to see. gj

 

[Harryinator]

Thanks for posting this. I appreciate the clarification.

 

[kmjt]

Think "X held gold for me and got hacked while holding it". Being completely shut out with no voice and no empathy on a black and white hard decision is completely alienating. If it happened to me I wouldn't want to come back.

I would have an understanding if someone were to get banned or genuinely hacked with valuables they were holding for someone. Obviously some people can't pay that back immediately. I don't necessarily consider this a scam. I don't have a problem with DNT in this situation. A situation I don't agree with is when someone takes off with accumulated debt. Do they really have an excuse?

And again this has nothing to do with DNT. If they are going to ban evade they will do it regardless of the existence of the DNT system.

Yeah but at least if they are forced to ban evade they are stripped of all of their previous things that may portray trust. Post count, join date, legacy, etc. There are a lot of people that will go first in trade just based on post count and join date alone.

People who ask for DNT are expressing an interest in rejoining the community. To slam the door in their face is not going to improve any outcome for anyone.

Shouldn't you value your loyal users more than people who offend? I get that there are some (probably lots) that would be ok with their offender coming back if it means they are getting their money back but i'm not really ok with it because to me its not about the money. Its about integrity. For the users that are ok with their offender coming back sure DNT them (I don't agree with it but their situation is none of my business so w/e) but to generalize the people that would rather not have their offender come back is kind of selfish (no offence) because it makes it seem like you care more about site activity than our input on our offender.

 

[Pain]

I would have an understanding if someone were to get banned or genuinely hacked with valuables they were holding for someone. Obviously some people can't pay that back immediately. I don't necessarily consider this a scam. I don't have a problem with DNT in this situation. A situation I don't agree with is when someone takes off with accumulated debt. Do they really have an excuse?





Yeah but at least if they are forced to ban evade they are stripped of all of their previous things that may portray trust. Post count, join date, legacy, etc. There are a lot of people that will go first in trade just based on post count and join date alone.





Shouldn't you value your loyal users more than people who offend? I get that there are some (probably lots) that would be ok with their offender coming back if it means they are getting their money back but i'm not really ok with it because to me its not about the money. Its about integrity. For the users that are ok with their offender coming back sure DNT them (I don't agree with it but their situation is none of my business so w/e) but to generalize the people that would rather not have their offender come back is kind of selfish (no offence) because it makes it seem like you care more about site activity than our input on our offender.

I would consider many banned users on sythe to have more integrity than a lot of the community.

Just saying.



Also, ontopic: Good work, I find it ironic how I got completely roasted alive fighting for this and now 3/4 the community accepts it and loves the activity, just goes to show you how peoples opinions change.

 

I would have an understanding if someone were to get banned or genuinely hacked with valuables they were holding for someone. Obviously some people can't pay that back immediately. I don't necessarily consider this a scam. I don't have a problem with DNT in this situation. A situation I don't agree with is when someone takes off with accumulated debt. Do they really have an excuse?

You have to balance your feeling that some people might be getting off too lightly with the reality that a large number are getting too harsh a punishment under the perm ban system

Yeah but at least if they are forced to ban evade they are stripped of all of their previous things that may portray trust. Post count, join date, legacy, etc. There are a lot of people that will go first in trade just based on post count and join date alone.

DNT users are stripped of almost everything. We could even strip post count and join date if people want that.

Shouldn't you value your loyal users more than people who offend? I get that there are some (probably lots) that would be ok with their offender coming back if it means they are getting their money back but i'm not really ok with it because to me its not about the money. Its about integrity. For the users that are ok with their offender coming back sure DNT them (I don't agree with it but their situation is none of my business so w/e) but to generalize the people that would rather not have their offender come back is kind of selfish (no offence) because it makes it seem like you care more about site activity than our input on our offender.

Most of our loyal users have been banned and pardoned

 

[SuF]

DNT users are stripped of almost everything. We could even strip post count and join date if people want that.

Yeah I'd support doing that as well.

 

DNT users are stripped of almost everything. We could even strip post count and join date if people want that.

Sure, gives them more reason to repay and pardon.

 

[Admires]

Yeah I'd support doing that as well.

I strongly oppose this. We want to integrate DNT members, not shun them even further. There are tons of communities on the internet these people could go to. If they wanted to, they could ban evade as well. The DNT rank was enough in my opinion.

 

[Pain]

I agree with Admires, stop striking DnT users, you've found the happy medium line based on activity without pushing them away, do not go to far.

Leave them how they are or your just going to cause a negative impact.

 

[Admires]

Sure, gives them more reason to repay and pardon.

The problem is that we need to find a middle ground. If we literally take the last things they have which gives them identity on this forum (join date and PC) they are better off ban evading or leaving the community all together. I believe we have found the perfect balance in terms of what to take away at the moment. They don't deserve all the perks, but they shouldn't have everything stripped.

 

[SuF]

I strongly oppose this. We want to integrate DNT members, not shun them even further. There are tons of communities on the internet these people could go to. If they wanted to, they could ban evade as well. The DNT rank was enough in my opinion.

You make a pretty decent point. Maybe hold on then.

 

[kmjt]

The problem is that we need to find a middle ground. If we literally take the last things they have which gives them identity on this forum (join date and PC) they are better off ban evading or leaving the community all together. I believe we have found the perfect balance in terms of what to take away at the moment. They don't deserve all the perks, but they shouldn't have everything stripped.

Their identity (even post count and join date) is a risk to the community. The whole point of the DNT rank is to alert people that they shouldn't be trusted when trading. Having a high post count and early join date is kind of counterproductive to that goal since they both give a false representation of a user's trust. If they actually plan on repaying (which is apparently the whole point of this), they shouldn't be too bothered about having their identity restored when they do repay. When they have their DNT rank removed.

They should already be grateful they were given a chance to work their way back.

 

[Admires]

Their identity (even post count and join date) is a risk to the community. The whole point of the DNT rank is to alert people that they shouldn't be trusted when trading. Having a high post count and early join date is kind of counterproductive to that goal since they both give a false representation of a user's trust. If they actually plan on repaying (which is apparently the whole point of this), they shouldn't be too bothered about having their identity restored when they do repay. When they have their DNT rank removed.

They should already be grateful they were given a chance to work their way back.

They literally have "DO NOT TRADE" as a rank. Who cares if it's counterproductive to the goal of not trusting them. If someone trusts a DNT the blame is on them because of pure idiocy.

Also, they might be grateful to be able to come back, but you have to realize Sythe.org is not the only gaming forum on the internet. These people can easily go elsewhere and if they get everything stripped from them that made Sythe great for them in the first place, they would just leave.

There has to be a compromise.

 

[kmjt]

They literally have "DO NOT TRADE" as a rank. Who cares if it's counterproductive to the goal of not trusting them. If someone trusts a DNT the blame is on them because of pure idiocy.

Also, they might be grateful to be able to come back, but you have to realize Sythe.org is not the only gaming forum on the internet. These people can easily go elsewhere and if they get everything stripped from them that made Sythe great for them in the first place, they would just leave.

There has to be a compromise.

If they aren't willing to honour their repayment why would they be welcome to stay anyway? These "idiots" are going to be ignorant newcomers who don't really know any better. Not hard to persuade a newcomer that "the DNT is a temporary misunderstanding but trust me i've been here for 6 years look at my post count". There doesn't have to be a compromise. These are offenders. They dug their own hole.

 

[Pain]

They literally have "DO NOT TRADE" as a rank. Who cares if it's counterproductive to the goal of not trusting them. If someone trusts a DNT the blame is on them because of pure idiocy.

Also, they might be grateful to be able to come back, but you have to realize Sythe.org is not the only gaming forum on the internet. These people can easily go elsewhere and if they get everything stripped from them that made Sythe great for them in the first place, they would just leave.

There has to be a compromise.

Tbh your wasting ur time, this DnT is the same as pardons, people who haven't did it or never had it just don't understand.

I agree with your points, and I'm pretty sure if we slapped anyone on here with a DnT rank after about a week their viewpoint would change to.


It's the same thing as always, those who haven't gone through it don't get it, its just people talking about what they know nothing about.

 

[Admires]

If they aren't willing to honour their repayment why would they be welcome to stay anyway? These "idiots" are going to be ignorant newcomers who don't really know any better. Not hard to persuade a newcomer that "the DNT is a temporary misunderstanding but trust me i've been here for 6 years look at my post count". There doesn't have to be a compromise. These are offenders. They dug their own hole.

Well your newcomer example seems like an education problem rather than a DNT problem. Why not spend more time trying to educate newcomers the basics of Sythe.org when they sign up through a mandatory FAQ? This would easily combat "newcomers being ignorant to DNT ranks" without shunning the entire DNT community.

 

[kmjt]

Tbh your wasting ur time, this DnT is the same as pardons, people who haven't did it or never had it just don't understand.

I agree with your points, and I'm pretty sure if we slapped anyone on here with a DnT rank after about a week their viewpoint would change to.


It's the same thing as always, those who haven't gone through it don't get it, its just people talking about what they know nothing about.

I could argue that by saying anyone who has pardoned or been handed a DNT is biased to be against harsh punishment because they don't want to admit their past actions warranted a greater punishment.

 

[Pain]

I could argue that by saying anyone who has pardoned or been handed a DNT is biased to be against harsh punishment because they don't want to admit their past actions warranted a greater punishment.

Indeed you could, fournately no amount of arguing has ever changed my stances, I'm firmly behind giving DnT any and all rights they can receive, I was when I was advocating DnT, I was when I was DnT, and I'm not going to turn my back on them just because I'm not anymore.

People seem to think my stances change due to my situation, they don't.

When I'm twc'd and advocate twc changes people are like "yeah u just want this for urself"-no, I stand behind my opinions whether or not it effects me or not, same with DnT, Bans, etc.

My opinion remains the same.



By all means everyones free to argue it, I'm just saying no argument on the planet changes what I believe to be the right stances.

 

[kmjt]

Well your newcomer example seems like an education problem rather than a DNT problem. Why not spend more time trying to educate newcomers the basics of Sythe.org when they sign up through a mandatory FAQ? This would easily combat "newcomers being ignorant to DNT ranks" without shunning the entire DNT community.

Easier said than done. Social engineering > any form of education even a giant pop up. Like I said in an earlier a post a lot of these DNT users aren't stupid.