Why you can't make abortion illegal

[dam prayer noobs]

If abortion was made illegal, you think babies would stop dieing? No, women would just abort it themselves or do it in an unsanitary place risking infection and death. No matter what the legal status is, babies are going to keep getting aborted. The only difference is, would you rather have women do it safely, or have them risk their life doing it?

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/11/2/190.pdf

"Conclusions: During the study period a significant proportion of reproductive-aged Spanish women had abortions in England and Wales and The Netherlands. Decriminalization has had no observed effect on the trends in abortion, but rather it has benefited Spanish women by making abortion available locally and, therefore, reducing the inequalities implied by lack of access to proper health care services."

Lawmakers in the 60's saw that this law was basically unenforceable since the government can't monitor a woman's vagina and what she does with it, so they made abortion legal again. Like a woman in this documentary said, "a woman that's unhappily pregnant will risk her life to stop that particular pregnancy." Watch this documentary and see the horrors that women had to endure when abortion was illegal:

[youtube]iHsdhF2YjS0[/youtube]
[youtube]x1eqy4VdmNM&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]Esi8I0PPlg8&feature=related[/youtube]

And look at what's going on in Argentina, where abortion is illegal:

[youtube]XUd90geK8Ug&feature=fvw[/youtube]

 

[Straggler]

I actually think that life starts at conception and if all goes well they baby will be born. If you're not killing it, what ARE you doing to it? But seriously, people need to learn how to use a fucking condom I mean come on...

 

[DropKick Murphys]

That's kind of a weak argument...
If abortion is indeed murder, then it should absolutely be illegal and the people partaking in it should be charged with murder.
It's like saying "heroin should be legal, because people do it anyway, and if it's legal at least they will do it safely"

The question on abortion should be whether or not it is murder.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

That's kind of a weak argument...
If abortion is indeed murder, then it should absolutely be illegal and the people partaking in it should be charged with murder.
It's like saying "heroin should be legal, because people do it anyway, and if it's legal at least they will do it safely"

The question on abortion should be whether or not it is murder.

There is no certain point that a life starts that which all people agree on. Some people think it starts at conception, some think with the first heart beat, and some think with birth. Life doesn't just suddenly start, it's a gradual process until the fetus can finally survive physically disattached from it's mother. This means that this issue is a matter of opinion since there is no definite time that a life starts, and as far as I know, opinions can't be imposed on other people.

I thought you guys already knew this which was why I didn't mention it o.0

 

[The Riddler_]

There is no certain point that a life starts that which all people agree on. Some people think it starts at conception, some think with the first heart beat, and some think with birth. Life doesn't just suddenly start, it's a gradual process until the fetus can finally survive physically disattached from it's mother. This means that this issue is a matter of opinion since there is no definite time that a life starts, and as far as I know, opinions can't be imposed on other people.

I thought you guys already knew this which was why I didn't mention it o.0

When the heart beats? No heart beat, not alive? If you can tell when it is dead, you can surely tell if it is alive.

I agree with dropkick on this one. Just don't fuck random people and abortion won't be a problem I laugh at the people doing it themselves when they made a mistake with a random person in a one night stand. It'll teach them not to be so loose.

I seriously, didn't feel like watching the videos. Say what you want, but I know what they're trying to accomplish.

 

[Cara Loves You]

Its kind of like drugs being illegal, even though they are they are still done and bought unsafely and unmonitored

I personally am pro life (and yes I'm obviously a girl) but id rather a abortion be done safely than lose two lives instead of one

 

[dam prayer noobs]

When the heart beats? No heart beat, not alive? If you can tell when it is dead, you can surely tell if it is alive.

So what if a mother doesn't consider her 1 week old zygote (basically a cluster of cells) alive, but there's a law that says she's not allowed to get rid of it because other people consider it a life?

I agree with dropkick on this one. Just don't fuck random people and abortion won't be a problem I laugh at the people doing it themselves when they made a mistake with a random person in a one night stand. It'll teach them not to be so loose.

This is truly an idiot statement. Women don't get pregnant just from fucking random people. Some are raped and some can't afford another child, and condoms don't work 100% of the time. Married mothers get abortions too. Unwanted pregnancies happen and probably will happen all the time and your ignorance isn't doing anything to help it.

 

[Elvy666]

If abortion was made illegal, you think babies would stop dieing? No, women would just abort it themselves or do it in an unsanitary place risking infection and death. No matter what the legal status is, babies are going to keep getting aborted. The only difference is, would you rather have women do it safely, or have them risk their life doing it? Lawmakers in the 60's saw that this law was basically unenforceable since the government can't monitor a woman's vagina and what she does with it, so they made abortion legal again. Like a woman in this documentary said, "a woman that's unhappily pregnant will risk her life to stop that particular pregnancy." Watch this documentary and see the horrors that women had to endure when abortion was illegal:

[youtube]iHsdhF2YjS0[/youtube]
[youtube]x1eqy4VdmNM&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]Esi8I0PPlg8&feature=related[/youtube]

And look at what's going on in Argentina, where abortion is illegal:

[youtube]XUd90geK8Ug&feature=fvw[/youtube]

So you're saying things like heroin and other drugs we should just legalize as well because even while illegal people will do them anyway? you should revise your theory's/statements before posting, sure anything made illegal will still be practiced by some people, though that doesn't mean we shouldn't ban it.

 

[DropKick Murphys]

There is no certain point that a life starts that which all people agree on. Some people think it starts at conception, some think with the first heart beat, and some think with birth. Life doesn't just suddenly start, it's a gradual process until the fetus can finally survive physically disattached from it's mother. This means that this issue is a matter of opinion since there is no definite time that a life starts, and as far as I know, opinions can't be imposed on other people.

I'm fairly certain you can objectively determine when a fetus qualifies as alive, but whether it has a right to live is different. (And if you were anti-abortion you'd need to make the case that a woman does not own her body completely, because if she did, she should be able to remove anything from it at any time.)

 

[FreedomFight]

I'm fairly certain you can objectively determine when a fetus qualifies as alive, but whether it has a right to live is different. (And if you were anti-abortion you'd need to make the case that a woman does not own her body completely, because if she did, she should be able to remove anything from it at any time.)

Fetus is always alive. Viability is a different issue altogether.

I don't think everyone should be bashing him for bringing up enforceability of a law. Such does a play a pertinent role when establishing grounds for it.

 

[Straggler]

So what if a mother doesn't consider her 1 week old zygote (basically a cluster of cells) alive, but there's a law that says she's not allowed to get rid of it because other people consider it a life?

Whether or not it is a cluster of cells, wouldn't you agree that it is surely going to be a human being in ~9 months?

 

[kingnick0694]

Whether or not it is a cluster of cells, wouldn't you agree that it is surely going to be a human being in ~9 months?

Right.

Is a child not considered human just because it is not as fully developed as an adult? Of course not!

If something naturally develops into an adult human (whether it be a child, teenager, fetus, or just a 'cluster of cells'), then it is a human.

Just because it cannot survive on its own does not mean it isn't human. There are plenty of adults on feeding tubes who cannot survive on their own. Are they not human?

 

[FreedomFight]

Right.

Is a child not considered human just because it is not as fully developed as an adult? Of course not!

If something naturally develops into an adult human (whether it be a child, teenager, fetus, or just a 'cluster of cells'), then it is a human.

Just because it cannot survive on its own does not mean it isn't human. There are plenty of adults on feeding tubes who cannot survive on their own. Are they not human?

Are your blood cells not human? When you ejaculate, aren't you losing millions of possible cells?

Are embryos human? Are they a part of the mother?

It's not that simple.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

So you're saying things like heroin and other drugs we should just legalize as well because even while illegal people will do them anyway? you should revise your theory's/statements before posting, sure anything made illegal will still be practiced by some people, though that doesn't mean we shouldn't ban it.

I think everyone should have the right to intake any substance they want. If someone is completely ok with taking heroin, then what gives you the right to not let them do that? And if you say "because it's bad for you," but what if for them the benefits greatly outweigh the risks? The thing is, unenforceable laws like that don't really do anything to stop people from taking those drugs, they just allow the government to punish and imprison people who chose to do them. And for your last statement, why does it mean that you SHOULD ban it?

I'm fairly certain you can objectively determine when a fetus qualifies as alive, but whether it has a right to live is different. (And if you were anti-abortion you'd need to make the case that a woman does not own her body completely, because if she did, she should be able to remove anything from it at any time.)

At much later stages of pregnancy, the fetus already developed all the sufficient organs that it would need to survive, and it would be able to survive outside the mother with the aid of machines. So I mean, I guess there should be some limit on abortion until that point, but it shouldn't be banned altogether.

Right.

Is a child not considered human just because it is not as fully developed as an adult? Of course not!

If something naturally develops into an adult human (whether it be a child, teenager, fetus, or just a 'cluster of cells'), then it is a human.

Just because it cannot survive on its own does not mean it isn't human. There are plenty of adults on feeding tubes who cannot survive on their own. Are they not human?

Should condoms be illegal? They block out sperm that have the potential to grow into a human and cause the sperm to die. And women on periods, their bodies natural dispose of the egg if it is not fertilized. Would that be killing a potential human too?

 

[Elvy666]

So `dam prayer noobs`,

Are you saying murder is ok? seeing as people do it even though it's illegal, should we just legalize murder?

 

[FreedomFight]

So `dam prayer noobs`,

Are you saying murder is ok? seeing as people do it even though it's illegal, should we just legalize murder?

You make no sense.

Murder is an easily enforceable law. Self-abortions are not. To add to that, enforceability of the law is only one of the many factors that contribute to this debate.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

So `dam prayer noobs`,

Are you saying murder is ok? seeing as people do it even though it's illegal, should we just legalize murder?

When did I say that murder is ok? Negatively affecting other people is never ok.

I would really rather debate the morality of abortion as opposed to it's potential illegality, but here goes...

The point of making abortion illicit would obviously be to discourage it. Your point regarding "people would still do it" is pretty weak. Just because it's still doable doesn't mean we should make it fully legal.

I don't get what there is there is still to debate, the point when a life starts from conception to the later stages of a fetus is an opinion and you can't impose your opinions on other people. I made this thread to show a different argument, that no matter what the morals are or how bad it is, women are still going to get abortions no matter what the government says. The government can't follow pregnant women around and monitor what they do to with it. If the government was serious about regulating abortion, then people would get birth certificates from the date of conception not the date of birth. And that would require the mother to check in with a doctor to tell him that she's pregnant, which still wouldn't be effective since then mothers just wouldn't go to the doctor.

And more importantly, if a mother would be completely ok with "killing" its own "child," then how are you expecting her to take care of the child for 18 years?

 

[The Riddler_]

Its kind of like drugs being illegal, even though they are they are still done and bought unsafely and unmonitored

I personally am pro life (and yes I'm obviously a girl) but id rather a abortion be done safely than lose two lives instead of one

Yes, but, you run the risk, you accept the consequences.

This is truly an idiot statement. Women don't get pregnant just from fucking random people. Some are raped and some can't afford another child, and condoms don't work 100% of the time. Married mothers get abortions too. Unwanted pregnancies happen and probably will happen all the time and your ignorance isn't doing anything to help it.

Rape is the only difference. But anything other. You run the risk, you accept the consequences.

 

[Swan]

When the heart beats? No heart beat, not alive? If you can tell when it is dead, you can surely tell if it is alive.

I agree with dropkick on this one. Just don't fuck random people and abortion won't be a problem I laugh at the people doing it themselves when they made a mistake with a random person in a one night stand. It'll teach them not to be so loose.

I seriously, didn't feel like watching the videos. Say what you want, but I know what they're trying to accomplish.

Why should people accept the consequences when there is an alternative with the same outcome as not having sex in the first place? I see no problem in using abortion as a means of "contraception", so to say.

 

[dam prayer noobs]

Rape is the only difference. But anything other. You run the risk, you accept the consequences.

So abortion is not ok, but only when it's the result of a rape? You would still be killing an innocent child, how is that fair for the child?

1. If it's based on opinion, is it worth the risk of killing the potential child?

An egg is a potential child, so is a sperm.

2. The term "fetus" is just another stage of development, similar to "child" and "adolescent." Surely you wouldn't condone killing one of the latter, so why is it okay to kill the former?

These are all opinions. We celebrate birth days instead of conception days or day-I-turned-into-a-fetus days for a reason.

You're not going to convince me with your opinions that anything younger than a third trimester fetus is equal to a human being, simply because that is what I view it as.

3. You didn't meet my argument. Why should we legalize abortion?

Abortion is already legal.

The illegality has surely stemmed some potential abortees, and just because you can't stop it doesn't mean it should be made legal. We cannot stop...

Murder
Rape
Nuclear proliferation​

...but just because we can't stop them, should we make them entirely without threat of repercussion?

Abortion was legal before it was illegal, so a better question would be why make it illegal in the first place? And I think the correct answer to that is because some people viewed it as murder, which is solely based on opinion.


Damn I keep falling into these arguments. The point of this thread is not to discuss the morality of abortion. Arguing the morality of abortion is just like arguing about if God exists or not, there is no right or wrong answer.

The point of this thread is to compare what it would be like if abortion was legal and if it was illegal.

If it was illegal, obviously foster homes would be flooded with unwanted children, who would be in danger of abuse and rape and would probably go into a life of crime and die somewhere on the streets. You pro-life people are all for a baby living, well what do you suggest we do when it is born? Throw it into a foster home and forget all about it? Do you even know how horrible foster home conditions are? Do you even know anyone who grew up in a foster home? Have they told you how horrible it was? If you are so pro-life then how about you donate vast amounts of money to foster homes so those kids can actually live the life you forced them into.