Why abstain from meat?

[Sypherz]

Empathetic reasons, some people get health benefits, placebo affect, weight loss, reason to eat more veggies, prostate cancer in men, trans fats...

Not directed at OP, but it's weird to me how black and white people seem to make issues like this, almost like they use their opinion on something slightly controversial to define themselves. Vegan diets are great for some people, not for others. Focus on yourself.

 

Well, I don't know your current condition, so I guess I can't speak to that



Which of the three (sugar, high-fat foods, and hot drinks) do you think are responsible? Whichever way you respond, can you talk to us a little bit more about how hot drinks are bad?

I'm not sure what you're to get at here other than keep going in circles? Hot drinks can lead to upset stomach and heartburn. If you add caffeine (every person reacts differently to it), then you could list numerous other factors such as insomnia, fatigue, and so on.

Each of them plays a difference part (sugar, high-fat food, and hot drinks to a lesser degree) hence I've cut back on all three of them. Pretty self-explanatory why they're bad.

 

[Shredderbeam]

I'm not sure what you're to get at here other than keep going in circles? Hot drinks can lead to upset stomach and heartburn. If you add caffeine (every person reacts differently to it), then you could list numerous other factors such as insomnia, fatigue, and so on.

I was clear. You said:

"It'd have minimal health benefits in my current condition."

I'm not a medical doctor, and I don't know your medical history, so you making a claim like that is meaningless to me. I can't make a judgment, and I don't know that your statement of "minimal health benefits" is meaningful in any way.

Each of them plays a difference part (sugar, high-fat food, and hot drinks to a lesser degree) hence I've cut back on all three of them. Pretty self-explanatory why they're bad.

I didn't ask why they're bad. I asked:

"Which of the three (sugar, high-fat foods, and hot drinks) do you think are responsible? Whichever way you respond, can you talk to us a little bit more about how hot drinks are bad?"

 

I was clear. You said:

"It'd have minimal health benefits in my current condition."

I'm not a medical doctor, and I don't know your medical history, so you making a claim like that is meaningless to me. I can't make a judgment, and I don't know that your statement of "minimal health benefits" is meaningful in any way.



I didn't ask why they're bad. I asked:

"Which of the three (sugar, high-fat foods, and hot drinks) do you think are responsible? Whichever way you respond, can you talk to us a little bit more about how hot drinks are bad?"

You don't have to be a medical doctor to know that each body reacts differently to a new diet. One can change their diet without going fully vegan and still get a plethora of health benefits.

Responsible for autoimmune diseases? If not, then you have my answer in previous post regarding health benefits. If you're talking about autoimmune then you can read up on what they actually are. If you're not talking about any of those then go ahead and explain your point since you quoted me when I mentioned autoimmune/health condition. Same goes for hot drinks since it's correlated to the above.

 

[Shredderbeam]

You don't have to be a medical doctor to know that each body reacts differently to a new diet. One can change their diet without going fully vegan and still get a plethora of health benefits.

Well obviously, but as I said, I don't know your current medical situation, so when you say "it'd have minimal health benefits in my current condition", I'm not in a position to evaluate that.

Responsible for autoimmune diseases? If not, then you have my answer in previous post regarding health benefits. If you're talking about autoimmune then you can read up on what they actually are. If you're not talking about any of those then go ahead and explain your point since you quoted me when I mentioned autoimmune/health condition. Same goes for hot drinks since it's correlated to the above.

I'm not sure if you're not understanding, not reading, or refusing to answer my question. You said that you cut back on sugar, high-fat foods, and hot drinks. I asked why you thought that that would mean that a vegan diet had minimal health benefits for you. You didn't answer.

I'm extremely curious to know why you think that hot liquids are bad, also.

 

Well obviously, but as I said, I don't know your current medical situation, so when you say "it'd have minimal health benefits in my current condition", I'm not in a position to evaluate that.



I'm not sure if you're not understanding, not reading, or refusing to answer my question. You said that you cut back on sugar, high-fat foods, and hot drinks. I asked why you thought that that would mean that a vegan diet had minimal health benefits for you. You didn't answer.

I'm extremely curious to know why you think that hot liquids are bad, also.

Why? I've already consulted with my doctor about it. Do I have to make a full transition? No. Would it be better with less sugar, high-fat food and hot drinks? Yes, obviously.

I've already explained the last point.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Why? I've already consulted with my doctor about it. Do I have to make a full transition? No. Would it be better with less sugar, high-fat food and hot drinks? Yes, obviously.

I've already explained the last point.

It's hard to be entirely sure which parts of my post you're responding to, since you won't break it up using quote tags. So, I'll break it up for you as best I can. If I make any mistakes, I apologise. Please correct me, but clearly.

Why? I've already consulted with my doctor about it.

I'm sure you have, but again, I don't know your current medical situation, and I'm not really in a position to evaluate that. Have you ever heard of "anectotal evidence"?

Do I have to make a full transition? No. Would it be better with less sugar, high-fat food and hot drinks? Yes, obviously.

Sure, it would be better with less sugar. High-fat foods have nothing to do with anything (unless it makes you intake more calories than you expend), and OBVIOUSLY the temperature of the drinks you imbibe has nothing to do with your health in normal scenarios.

I've already explained the last point.

You might've, but I've apparently missed it. Can you repeat it? Because, again, you responded to my post as a whole, and didn't specify which point you were responding to.

 

It's hard to be entirely sure which parts of my post you're responding to, since you won't break it up using quote tags. So, I'll break it up for you as best I can. If I make any mistakes, I apologise. Please correct me, but clearly.



I'm sure you have, but again, I don't know your current medical situation, and I'm not really in a position to evaluate that. Have you ever heard of "anectotal evidence"?



Sure, it would be better with less sugar. High-fat foods have nothing to do with anything (unless it makes you intake more calories than you expend), and OBVIOUSLY the temperature of the drinks you imbibe has nothing to do with your health in normal scenarios.



You might've, but I've apparently missed it. Can you repeat it? Because, again, you responded to my post as a whole, and didn't specify which point you were responding to.

Lol, now I'm sure you're just a vegan troll. Go ask a medical expert on effects of high-fat foods and hot drinks (last point was about hot drinks) on your stomach. Surely, you've no clue about what you're saying since you outright admitted your ignorance.

 

[Shredderbeam]

"explain why living is good"

Don't have kids lmao!

Lol, now I'm sure you're just a vegan troll. Go ask a medical expert on effects of high-fat foods and hot drinks (last point was about hot drinks) on your stomach. Surely, you've no clue about what you're saying since you outright admitted your ignorance.

...I'm not vegan. I used to be for ~5 years, but I'm not anymore.

Medical science is showing that a high carb/sugar diet (not fat) is what's bad for you. That's compatible with a meat-inclusive diet.

If you're so sure of your claims, I bet you can find sources. If you can't, well, that speaks for itself.

 

...I'm not vegan. I used to be for ~5 years, but I'm not anymore.

Medical science is showing that a high carb/sugar diet (not fat) is what's bad for you. That's compatible with a meat-inclusive diet.

If you're so sure of your claims, I bet you can find sources. If you can't, well, that speaks for itself.

Fatty food (goes without saying it's about trans/saturated given the topic).

The truth about fats: the good, the bad, and the in-between - Harvard Health
Good Fats vs. Bad Fats: Everything You Need to Know

 

[ilovegold69]

Haven't read through this thread much, but I see a lot of people confusing "oil" and "saturated animal fat" in reference to diet. Although they're bundled under the same macronutrient, plant oils are devoid of the necessary animal hormones found in saturated animal fat, and more or less trick you into thinking that's what they are. Also @Pakora I perused your articles about good fat vs. bad fat. The cholesterol debate is a joke, nobody has the answer, and it certainly isn't that cholesterol is bad for you. To think they would push monounsaturated vegetable oil as "good" fat is laughable. There is no replacement for saturated animal fat. One of the biggest reasons people quit veganism (besides out of hunger for actual food) is because their body literally has no fat or fat soluble vitamins left, and for some people vegetable oils are so hard to digest that it can sit in your upper intestines for hours. There is no proof that long-term use supplements do anything more than increase blood vitamin levels (similar to cholesterol).
You're playing with your health to cut back on crude animal protein and saturated animal fat, and you're playing with your life going vegan.

 

[ilovegold69]

- It destroys the environment.
- It is incredibly inefficient, resulting in huge wastes of grain and water.
- Pollution from transporting the meat (and methane from cows) is a huge contributor to global warming.
- You can lose a lot of weight very quickly, if you're struggling with weight.
- On average, a vegan diet is healthier than an omnivorous one.
- You'll feel better and have more energy.
- Vegan food is dirt cheap, so you'll possibly save money

- wrong, monocrop farming destroys the environment. Cows fertilize the environment.
- wrong, discussed on other thread, cows are an integral part of the ecosystems they're grown in.
- wrong, what about transporting plant foods cross-country because corn doesn't grow everywhere when cows do. The whole of global outsourcing is bad don't blame cows.
- no lol you can convince a fat person to not eat meat, but if you're about to say that they're going to go whole foods vegan diet and take all the fake vitamin pills and everything you're braindead. Carnivore is a diet that doesn't have asterisks and it requires 0 plants
- no, actually the vegan diet lacks several vital nutrients that you can only get from sat animal fat, and crude protein (and not from plant "protein"). There are loads of unhealthy vegan diets (all of them, but especially those with 0 micronutrients a la vegan pizza and almond milk) there is no unhealthy carnivore diet, you cannot overeat, and good meat is nutritionally whole as it is.
- this is just a lie lol. It's something vegans tote around the most because it's unfalsifiable. I think it's pretty easy, do 30 days carnivore and 30 days vegan. I've done both for longer than that and for me it couldn't be further from the truth. Veganism made me bloated, tired, gave me incredible heart burn, and skin problems. I ate fucking quinoa and shit too real story.
- animal foods are dirt cheap! If the liberals didn't try to make you feel bad for eating cow tongue you might not be bias against eating them. No wonder beans and rice are cheap, the farming conglomerates are raping the land free of charge and aren't being held accountable for it.

 

Haven't read through this thread much, but I see a lot of people confusing "oil" and "saturated animal fat" in reference to diet. Although they're bundled under the same macronutrient, plant oils are devoid of the necessary animal hormones found in saturated animal fat, and more or less trick you into thinking that's what they are. Also @Pakora I perused your articles about good fat vs. bad fat. The cholesterol debate is a joke, nobody has the answer, and it certainly isn't that cholesterol is bad for you. To think they would push monounsaturated vegetable oil as "good" fat is laughable. There is no replacement for saturated animal fat. One of the biggest reasons people quit veganism (besides out of hunger for actual food) is because their body literally has no fat or fat soluble vitamins left, and for some people vegetable oils are so hard to digest that it can sit in your upper intestines for hours. There is no proof that long-term use supplements do anything more than increase blood vitamin levels (similar to cholesterol).
You're playing with your health to cut back on crude animal protein and saturated animal fat, and you're playing with your life going vegan.

Cutting back doesn't mean that I'm entirely refraining from eating meat-related products. The saturated part is just a smaller part of my daily calorie intake.

 

[ilovegold69]

Cutting back doesn't mean that I'm entirely refraining from eating meat-related products. The saturated part is just a smaller part of my daily calorie intake.

You mean you eat less animal fat. Again I wouldn't recommend this, especially if you replace the animal fat with vegetable oils. I predict vegetable oils will be found to be the culprit behind heart disease, and not animal fat. Every study I've read about fat intake being bad is either about cholesterol (which is currently a hot topic in nutrition, and certainly not solved), or doesn't discriminate between animal fats and vegetables oils. Lard is not expensive, and it's a byproduct of the beef industry anyway, don't feel bad about using it.

 

You mean you eat less animal fat. Again I wouldn't recommend this, especially if you replace the animal fat with vegetable oils. I predict vegetable oils will be found to be the culprit behind heart disease, and not animal fat. Every study I've read about fat intake being bad is either about cholesterol (which is currently a hot topic in nutrition, and certainly not solved), or doesn't discriminate between animal fats and vegetables oils. Lard is not expensive, and it's a byproduct of the beef industry anyway, don't feel bad about using it.

Yeah, I get what you're saying and I agree. The only thing is that I used to consume way too much before so I've cut back. And I'm not looking to replace the animal fat with vegetable oil, which would be a very stupid idea.

 

[ilovegold69]

Yeah, I get what you're saying and I agree. The only thing is that I used to consume way too much before so I've cut back. And I'm not looking to replace the animal fat with vegetable oil, which would be a very stupid idea.

Unsure what you mean by "way too much". There are many people who live healthy lives eating ONLY animal products. The biggest problem with animal fats is that you can put them on carbs and make literal crack. Don't avoid animal fat, avoid sugar (carbohydrates) like the plague

 

Unsure what you mean by "way too much". There are many people who live healthy lives eating ONLY animal products. The biggest problem with animal fats is that you can put them on carbs and make literal crack. Don't avoid animal fat, avoid sugar (carbohydrates) like the plague

It was specifically my situation (consulted doctor) where high-fat food (trans/saturated), sugar, hot liquids, and a couple things more I had to cut down on. I've a working diet plan now, and my health has never been better.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Fatty food (goes without saying it's about trans/saturated given the topic).

The truth about fats: the good, the bad, and the in-between - Harvard Health
Good Fats vs. Bad Fats: Everything You Need to Know

The two sources that you've linked seem to agree that trans-fats are bad. Fair enough.

However, they don't really say a lot about why saturated fats are worse than mono/poly-unsaturated. as ilovegold69 says later, there are quite a few cultures that live on keto diets, specifically keto diets that are animal flesh and fat. They seem to do just fine.

- wrong, monocrop farming destroys the environment. Cows fertilize the environment.

Ehhh, actually, lots of things destroy the environment. Have a look: Avoiding meat and dairy is ‘single biggest way’ to reduce your impact on Earth

-- wrong, discussed on other thread, cows are an integral part of the ecosystems they're grown in.

Depends on the ecosystem. If you can't live in an area without killing sentient animals, perhaps you shouldn't live there.

-- wrong, what about transporting plant foods cross-country because corn doesn't grow everywhere when cows do. The whole of global outsourcing is bad don't blame cows.

Correct, but surely you understand that crops also have to be transported cross-country to feed livestock? Water as well? Several times more than a person needs, of course, and you also understand that the meat needs to be transported too?

-- no lol you can convince a fat person to not eat meat, but if you're about to say that they're going to go whole foods vegan diet and take all the fake vitamin pills and everything you're braindead. Carnivore is a diet that doesn't have asterisks and it requires 0 plants

Depends on the meat you're eating. Speak as an ex-vegan (6 years), you don't need supplements.

-- no, actually the vegan diet lacks several vital nutrients that you can only get from sat animal fat, and crude protein (and not from plant "protein"). There are loads of unhealthy vegan diets (all of them, but especially those with 0 micronutrients a la vegan pizza and almond milk) there is no unhealthy carnivore diet, you cannot overeat, and good meat is nutritionally whole as it is.

I have NO idea where this is coming from. Again, speaking as an ex-vegan, what vital nutrients can you not get from plants? I fared very well for 6 years.

-- this is just a lie lol. It's something vegans tote around the most because it's unfalsifiable. I think it's pretty easy, do 30 days carnivore and 30 days vegan. I've done both for longer than that and for me it couldn't be further from the truth. Veganism made me bloated, tired, gave me incredible heart burn, and skin problems. I ate fucking quinoa and shit too real story.

Depends on the kind of vegan/carnivore diet you're following, as you well know. I've followed vegan diets where I felt like shit/amazing, and the same for carnivore diets.

-- animal foods are dirt cheap! If the liberals didn't try to make you feel bad for eating cow tongue you might not be bias against eating them. No wonder beans and rice are cheap, the farming conglomerates are raping the land free of charge and aren't being held accountable for it.

I just don't understand why anybody would bring up American political terms like "liberals" into this discussion.

Back on topic, though, do you have any numbers about bean/rice farmers receiving better treatment? Or any numbers about percentages of budget dedicated to subsidizing certain markets?

It was specifically my situation (consulted doctor) where high-fat food (trans/saturated), sugar, hot liquids, and a couple things more I had to cut down on. I've a working diet plan now, and my health has never been better.

Oh, okay, one doctor has an opinion. Do you know if your doctors opinion is backed by mainstream medicine?

 

So far, yes, it's backed up by mainstream medicine as you can tell from the articles. "Seem to do just fine" is just fine as an anecdotal evidence.
Saturated vs. Unsaturated Fat: Know the Facts

 

For the environment, for ethical reasons, for health reasons. There are a number of different reasons why people abstain from meat. I've included some links that might explain a bit further, but google is a wonderful tool.

EDIT: Please stop writing that you're a carnivore if you're an omnivore.