virtualtrader1 (anti) scam report

[blahberrys]

Scammer's profile link: virtualtrader1
Amount scammed: $100
Discord ID + Unique Discord ID: virtualtrader1#4788 | 692629137776574495
Proof that it's their Discord:

Explanation of the trade:
So first of all I'd like state I am DNT'd and I am not actively advertising. Nor have I been conducting business - with this one exception. A few months ago virtualtrader1 adds me on discord.

We do some chatting about a discord bot but I wasn't able to do it at the time. During this time
I tell him I am DNT'd but I dont completely agree with the reason why and he is aware of my status on sythe.

About a month passes and he messages me to contract me for a bot, despite being DNT'd sythe. As this is against the rules I would not have accepted as I plan to appeal for pardon but I needed to extra money (corona times be tough). Anyways we come to an agreement and I show link him my sythe with TOS.

As with all business I had required the user finalize payment before sending the bot.

I deliver the bot and he request an additional feature for construction to be added.

Essentially what happens is this: Sand crabs and construction work well and user has great results.

Unfortunately NMZ did not have good results and the user's account would be banned after a day or more.

Due to this I changed the way the bot worked from how I thought it should behaviorally work to virtualtrader's specifically request methods. Eg; No camera rotating, eating food first to last, etc.
As well as added in world hopping and toggable option to not prayer flick - for free

Unfortunately after several request for changes and additions the user was not having success with the NMZ portion of the bot. (I am customizing the bot to work/behave the way he thinks/wants it should - Instead of the way I am telling him I think it should be) So due to this - he get frustrated NMZ keeps getting banned and instead he ask for an added change to which I agree to.

OKAY NOW THAT THIS BACK STORY IS DONE HERE WE ARE... So now virtualtrader contacts me yet again to purchase another bot.

We eventually agree on details and yet again per TOS and he puts down deposit, just like before, and I begin.

It has been a bit over a month as I was told I could take my time due to a delay in his plans and not having a use for the bot for some time now. However I did, yet again, go above and beyond adding in extra features for completely free (such as discord bot support and customizable spam location via start args)

Now, days before we're about to finish this exchange, virtualtader goes off on tangants about how he gets banned when using the NMZ even though I offered to continue to work on it for free - he refused to provide a test account for me to use and than told me to forget about it.

The bot is now completed (Can upload proof on request) and virtualtrader is refusing to finalize payment before he receives the bot.

I have not scammed virtualtrader and this post is a measure to prevent a fraudulent scam report on his behalf, as threaten above. As stated to the client, I can provide proof the bot functional in any manner requested - he will receive the files once payment is finalized.

 

[blahberrys]

It may be worth mention virtualtrader was, apparently, also recently caught ripping ariba's website and falsely accusing another developer of scamming: resolved

 

Yeah, only post about the sand crab + construction bot and dont mention about how 6 of my accounts got banned by your "professional nmz bot"

I wish a refund for the nmz bot + auto spammer bot, and i deeply hope none of you people on sythe deal with this guy he is one of the biggest manipulators i have ever seen on sythe, i do understand now why he's dnted, makes good sense to me now

EDIT: I had the intention to pay the last 100$ for the auto spammer and move on (not even wanting the nmz bot fixed as i gave up on it(he is incapable of making a good one, im better off using a free public script).

But after this manipulative behaviour and wasting a lot of my time and energy on this, i would like a refund for the nmz bot. I paid 185$ for the sand crabs + nmz bot. So i find it fair that, that 100$ went for the nmz bot and 85$ for the sandcrab bot. Which leads me into a 100$ loss, and that goes even for the last payment of the autospammer (admins can decide whether this is fair or not)

This guy have absolute no respect and only thinks about your money, not caring about delivering a functional product.. 6 of my accounts has been banned and he act like its "part of botting" Yeah sure its part of botting that a "professional private script, would last me 4 hours before ban" You should compensate for those 6 accounts that went down the drain, its obvious that u just rushed the code without putting an effort at all theres so many bugs about this bot that its ridiculous to even understand, even a public free script lasted me weeks before ban.

"virtualtrader1 caught ripping aribas website" is this how your trying to back yourself up?

Your dnted for exactly your manipulative behaviour, and for lying to an admin. If you lie towards an admin, im pretty sure you lie and manipulate every customer that you have, but i dont mention that on my scam report, im not a child like you pointing fingers at what happened in the past

I paid 185$ for 2 bots, 1 of them works fine, 2nd one got 6 of my accounts banned and u keep asking me to provide you more and more accounts, do you think i own a factory of accounts? do you know how much your poor coding skills have cost me? you should fucking compensate me

 

[MohtasaUnique]

But after this manipulative behaviour and wasting a lot of my time and energy on this, i would like a refund for the nmz bot. I paid 185$ for the sand crabs + nmz bot. So i find it fair that, that 100$ went for the nmz bot and 85$ for the sandcrab bot. Which leads me into a 100$ loss, and that goes even for the last payment of the autospammer (admins can decide whether this is fair or not)

Note: "Counter-scamming" (attempting to recover your property from a scammer) is not against the rules, but attempting to scam someone who previously scammed you is. There is a big difference between the two. You should be aware that if you attempt to recover your property from a scammer, that scammer may attempt to report you on Sythe. If you have insufficient evidence to back your claims that you were indeed recovering your stolen property the staff may be forced to ban you. Contact a staff member for assistance if you believe a counter-scam opportunity has presented itself. Anti-scamming without a staff member's approval will be punished.

As this report progresses, it's worth mentioning immediately that this piece falls under "Counter-Scamming", which has ambiguous legality. In this case, you completed a past transaction, and then initiated a brand new transaction, and it would be my (challengable) opinion that this is an illegitimate counter-scam scenario when you assert that the value of the new bot should pay for the failures of the old bot as your reason for denying payment.

This isn't a verdict on the report, just leaving a note as the report progresses.

 

As this report progresses, it's worth mentioning immediately that this piece falls under "Counter-Scamming", which has ambiguous legality. In this case, you completed a past transaction, and then initiated a brand new transaction, and it would be my (challengable) opinion that this is an illegitimate counter-scam scenario when you assert that the value of the new bot should pay for the failures of the old bot as your reason for denying payment.

This isn't a verdict on the report, just leaving a note as the report progresses.

Hi, it has never been the intention to counter scam in the first place, as mentioned earlier. Its only after his manipulative behaviour that i found it fair for myself to do it this way. Nevertheless, the first order still has bugs with the nmz bot which leads me into a 100$ loss, and i can't afford to giving him more and more of my accounts to see them continuously getting banned over and over, I don't have faith in this guy anymore and would like a refund for the nightmare zone bot.

And on top of all, as i mentioned on my own scam report "The deal was that he would set up the auto spammer on my server before i paid him the last 50% as shown on the picture", he just refused that deal because he probably knew that he fucked up with the previous bot and i was now about to counter scam him, but that was never the intention before now.

What do you and all the other mods think is fair in this situation? I cant afford to give him more accounts to test with, those 6 accounts have lost a total value of 120m 07 gold which is around 60$, full obsidian gear + a bond on each, i can't afford to continue like this, I wan't a refund instead

EDIT: "this is an illegitimate counter-scam scenario when you assert that the value of the new bot should pay for the failures of the old bot as your reason for denying payment"

I have never done that, i asked the mods if they think this its fair or not, if i had to give my own opinion on this, i would value the sandcrab bot for 50$ and 135$ for the nmz bot.

(each one of those 6 banned accounts cost me 15$ each to pay off workers to build them which leads me into a 90$ loss along with the 120m 07 gold at 60$ which makes it a 150$ lost alone on the nightmare zone bot, + paying for it by going first long time ago, now that 185$ i sent to him in btc value is well over 220$ and the product is awful to such a degree that i have lost faith in the nmz bot and would just like to either get refunded or getting the last $100 for the auto spammer paid off instead (admins can decide whether this is fair or not). All in all, i would still be the one disappointed here and NOT him

 

[blahberrys]

It may be worth noting that I've only received 1 account for testing the NMZ portion of the bot and it was not banned while in my use. All 6 of his bans have been during his use, and to reiterate, I have issued several updates at his request to change the bot's behavior to how he believes the bot should behave, against my advice.

 

It may be worth noting that I've only received 1 account for testing the NMZ portion of the bot and it was not banned while in my use. All 6 of his bans have been during his use, and to reiterate, I have issued several updates at his request to change the bot's behavior to how he believes the bot should behave, against my advice.

You didn't do what i have requested at all because you didnt believe that it would minimise the banrate, yet along i tested your "masterpiece" and got banned

Screenshot - f672e9c9d8779a2c1c2f0036186467b7 - Gyazo
Screenshot - 692da89b6cf45abf01c03ed5be2911e2 - Gyazo

And now to the sandcrab bot, you did indeed make it the way i requested it completely! hence the reason this picture was taken

EDIT: I gave you several accounts to test with not just 1, i just dont have the patience to dig through our whole conversation (this project have lasted months) and im getting tired of all of this, none of this crap would have ever happened if you just had delivered what i asked for in the first place.

As i stated many times by now, i didnt have the intention by any mean to counter scam you. All i wanted regarding the auto spammer is that i would test it on my server to make sure its bug free before paying you. And thats because of the previous bot failure.
A sandcrab and construction bot is not as hard to make as nmz bot, and the nmz bot failed miserably, and now i have to just sit there and trust that your autospammer that is harder to make is flawless? Who do you think i am??

https://i.gyazo.com/4baaf96016ff7f5a7a988ba81b1e1216.mp4

 

[MohtasaUnique]

More opinionated input:

Unfortunately after several request for changes and additions the user was not having success with the NMZ portion of the bot. (I am customizing the bot to work/behave the way he thinks/wants it should - Instead of the way I am telling him I think it should be) So due to this - he get frustrated NMZ keeps getting banned and instead he ask for an added change to which I agree to.

I don't see anything that lists @virtualtrader1's grievances in the back-story screenshots, only your agreeing to new features and tweaks that were defined outside the provided screenshots. You have certainly casted yourself in a good light, and you seem very amicable and gracious to make these tweaks for free, but I wonder at how the conversation played out when @virtualtrader1 started noticing his accounts getting banned. I would like to know how he approached you and how you reacted initially because the nature of THIS argument is going to be heavily influenced by your good faith and his satisfaction with the first round of bots you programmed.

Yeah, only post about the sand crab + construction bot and dont mention about how 6 of my accounts got banned by your "professional nmz bot"

See above. As stated, I don't see any conversation that deals with the core issue for the NMZ bot, and it's my opinion that it's because it wasn't a good bot, and you two discussed this more than what's seen in the report screenshots. If the bot truly failed and showed no redeeming quality, I don't think enforcing a refund is out of the question. However:

This guy have absolute no respect and only thinks about your money, not caring about delivering a functional product.. 6 of my accounts has been banned and he act like its "part of botting" Yeah sure its part of botting that a "professional private script, would last me 4 hours before ban" You should compensate for those 6 accounts that went down the drain, its obvious that u just rushed the code without putting an effort at all theres so many bugs about this bot that its ridiculous to even understand, even a public free script lasted me weeks before ban.

The screenshots show very clearly to me that he was generously providing tweaks and changes per your specifications for free. If you have screenshots that disprove that, it would indeed be important to know.

As far as compensation for the 6 accounts you lost, I disagree. I get it that some of the bots were being run simultaneously, but when I botted in the past, it was my strict habit to watch the bots perform and to pull out ASAP if things start going wrong until I was confident they were functional. If you lost 6 accounts over the several days that was mentioned in the report, you should have realized the script was shit and stopped using it immediately. Frankly, that IS the risk of botting, and knowing the risk is very real, you need to be cautious about how you proceed with breaking Jagex' most fundamental rule.

All i wanted regarding the auto spammer is that i would test it on my server to make sure its bug free before paying you.

According to @blahberrys TOS:

Any and all service that may contain an association with tangible files, eg; source code, etc*, will not be distributed to the consumer unless specifically requested otherwise before deposit.

[07/Discord] [FAST DELIVERY - FREE SUPPORT] PROFESSIONAL BOTS {100+ served}

It is requested that this be agreed upon before the deposit is made. You entered into this second transaction knowing that one of two bots failed the last time you traded. Did you make this request when you were arranging the price and deposit?

 

[MohtasaUnique]

Just noticed the gyazo links @virtualtrader1 provided

And it's still my personal opinion that you're showing a lot of hostility and derision where @blahberrys just seems to be trying to improve the bot per your specifications. I'm still of the opinion that the bot wasn't properly tested before deemed finished and paid for, and instead you ran it on 6 accounts knowing it wasn't performing to your liking. You had much time to fairly demand a refund from the bot, but you came back for a third bot (I assume because sand crabs worked well at least.)

So my question at the moment is still: why did you buy another bot when you knew the NMZ was shit?

And my question for @blahberrys is: why was the NMZ bot so bad? Because if it banned all the accounts it ran on within one day of running, it IS bad. Do you have screenshots to prove that your benchmark settings greatly outperformed @virtualtrader1's requests?

 

More opinionated input:


See above. As stated, I don't see any conversation that deals with the core issue for the NMZ bot, and it's my opinion that it's because it wasn't a good bot, and you two discussed this more than what's seen in the report screenshots. If the bot truly failed and showed no redeeming quality, I don't think enforcing a refund is out of the question. However:

The screenshots show very clearly to me that he was generously providing tweaks and changes per your specifications for free. If you have screenshots that disprove that, it would indeed be important to know.

As far as compensation for the 6 accounts you lost, I disagree. I get it that some of the bots were being run simultaneously, but when I botted in the past, it was my strict habit to watch the bots perform and to pull out ASAP if things start going wrong until I was confident they were functional. If you lost 6 accounts over the several days that was mentioned in the report, you should have realized the script was shit and stopped using it immediately. Frankly, that IS the risk of botting, and knowing the risk is very real, you need to be cautious about how you proceed with breaking Jagex' most fundamental rule.


According to @blahberrys TOS:

[07/Discord] [FAST DELIVERY - FREE SUPPORT] PROFESSIONAL BOTS {100+ served}

It is requested that this be agreed upon before the deposit is made. You entered into this second transaction knowing that one of two bots failed the last time you traded. Did you make this request when you were arranging the price and deposit?

My apologizes for not having english as my first language but im doing my best to explain the situation correctly.

He has given me around 20 different remaked verision of this script (i just cant be arsed to scroll up and find them all, you can call me on discord and ill gladly show you them all if he hasnt deleted them already).. This process has been ongoing for a long time. Ofc im not an idiot to continue botting on the same script knowing that i would get banned like the previous times, he have been trying to fix the bot for a long time and i tried it out afterwards and the "keep on getting banned" routine kept occurring. Im so frustrated that i completely lost all hope on this. This shouldn't have happened in the first place... He promised me that i would get to max combat stats with it just to sell me the product.. And i believed him and realized that i got tricked

No i didnt know the previous bot was flawless, only the construction and sand crab was. I didnt know about the nmz bot as ive tested it numerous times with no luck, but choose to try it again after his rework of it which recently just got me banned. I don't want to go through this headache with that bot i don't want it! i won't ever get to max combat stats with it as he promised me i would so theres no point of me paying for it


I haven't seen his TOS, If you try to look at my sythe profile activity you would notice that I haven't even seen any of blahberrys threads. I found out about him through RuneMate, and not sythe.. I then searched for him on sythe and saw that he was dnted, thats the only thread i reckon that ive entered

It still doesnt change the fact that after the previous bot failures i feel insecure to pay first as i don't want to experience the previous pattern that occured.. The nmz bot has a lot of changes to be fixed and i simply don't wanna go through that headache and let my accounts go to waste like that until he finally figures it out.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

I show link him my sythe with TOS.

I haven't seen his TOS

This needs to be substantiated. @blahberrys your screenshots do not prove you showed him TOS.

 

Heres a few of the 20 remakes, there are many more though, because some of them werent from a downloadable dropbox link, but the jar file itself

https://i.gyazo.com/99d7691af53bf9bae7c66e3e4b0d0ee2.mp4

MohtasaUnique

I have no intention to post this picture to the public to protect blahberrys reputation so i have removed it and would like the mods to check this deleted picture

 

[MohtasaUnique]

Heres a few of the 20 remakes, there are many more though, because some of them werent from a downloadable dropbox link, but the jar file itself

https://i.gyazo.com/99d7691af53bf9bae7c66e3e4b0d0ee2.mp4

Okay to wrap up the part of the report regarding the NMZ bot, here's what I need:

• Proof from @blahberrys that the bot EVER performed to the requirements of the customer (with proof it's the version you PROVIDED the customer, and not a last minute attempt to spruce it up)
• Proof from @blahberrys that the bot's coder-selected settings outperformed the revisions that led to additional bans on the customer's account

If the bot is really as bad as both of you have said throughout this report, then it's simply not worth the payment, and depending on the last few pieces I need, I am feeling that a refund would be fair but I'll surface it to staff for a second opinion.

To address the concerns over the ToS on the spamming bot:

• Proof from @blahberrys that you served your ToS to virtualtrader1
• Proof from @virtualtrader1 that you requested to run the spammer on your own server while negotiating your purchase (a VERY valid request, given the failure of the NMZ bot)
• Agreement from @blahberrys that virtualtrader1 will be allowed to test the bot before purchasing, as again I think would be fair. Given virtualtraders1's accumulated trust on the site, I think it's fair to stake his reputation on delivering payment if he can be made happy with his test before finalizing the payment.

Now, you'll notice I'm considering these as two separate issues. I understand enforcing a refund on NMZ bot while ALSO enforcing payment on the spam bot is BASICALLY the same thing as handing over Spam bot without final payment and calling it square.

BUT the point I'm trying to make here is that virtualtrader1 needed to approach this in a more professional manner, and filing a claim for refund BEFORE starting a new contract with blahberrys is just common sense.

 

• Proof from @virtualtrader1 that you requested to run the spammer on your own server while negotiating your purchase (a VERY valid request, given the failure of the NMZ bot)

https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/8a89907fff3e08509d7edc37527acc50-png.jpg

 

[blahberrys]

https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/8a89907fff3e08509d7edc37527acc50-png.jpg

The only thing this shows is his request to test the bot before finalizing payment which is the entire reason we're here. His request is invalid due to that fact he's decided this once the bot is completed and after agreeing on terms and placing the deposit. Due to the fact I did not agree to this request and it was made after the deposit - this request may be invalidated and I pretrain the right to deny.

Additionally;

• Proof from @blahberrys that you served your ToS to virtualtrader1

I haven't seen his TOS, If you try to look at my sythe profile activity you would notice that I haven't even seen any of blahberrys threads. I found out about him through RuneMate, and not sythe.. I then searched for him on sythe and saw that he was dnted, thats the only thread i reckon that ive entered

It is not my responsibility to deliberately seek the acceptance of my TOS, as stated:

• By contacting, contracting, or other means of receivable service* - You agree to the following conditions;

Furthermore the page containing my contact details and TOS was served, proof is within op.

Also virtualtrader is lying about finding me through RuneMate as I have no profile on their website and have no for the past ~2 years. Even more-sore I have purge all my discord contacts so it would be highly unlikely for anyone related to this business to relay my contact information, especially after being out of business for nearly a year now. In conclusion virtualtrader presumably
obtained my discord tag from the only place listed online - my sythe advertisement post.

He has given me around 20 different remaked verision of this script

This is probabaly true lol, if anything I think this shows my dedication to deliver a good product.
HOWEVER, this is being used in malicious context due to; these update include several request updates, and additional features added on like GUI options or construction. There are a fraction of these updates that are caused to bugs I did not find during testing or human error programming.

sI didnt know about the nmz bot as ive tested it numerous times with no luck, but choose to try it again after his rework of it which recently just got me banned

This is yet another lie. There was no "Re-work" that I applied which prompted him to re-test the NMZ portion of the bot.
In reality, apparently, a staff member of jagex left and this resulted in virtualtrader believing he would have better success at NMZ.

NOTE: I also don't know how many hours a day he is running at NMZ?

Secondly:

• Proof from @blahberrys that the bot EVER performed to the requirements of the customer (with proof it's the version you PROVIDED the customer, and not a last minute attempt to spruce it up)
• Proof from @blahberrys that the bot's coder-selected settings outperformed the revisions that led to additional bans on the customer's account

First iteration of NMZ bot (Bot's behavior system is mixed between his request and my interpretation for success)
Accounts were lasting "a few days" - in retrospect - I do not know his regime for botting;
if he was using good proxies, character times, botting times, etc.

I do admit I did not extensively test the NMZ portion (more than one day) on my end as I had previously had great results with NMZ and thought it to be unnecessary. I believe the results virtualtrader is having are reflected by the bot behavior as requested by the client and possibility his botting environment and/or regime.

I will now offer one last time to truly rework the bot, in which way I see fit for successful results, if provided and account.

To conclude:

• Agreement from @blahberrys that virtualtrader1 will be allowed to test the bot before purchasing, as again I think would be fair.

It is due to the aforementioned above - I am unable to offer any type of refund or willing to derive any of the agreement details.
As such the product will be delivered once payment is finalized.

Finally:

• Given virtualtraders1's accumulated trust on the site, I think it's fair to stake his reputation on delivering payment if he can be made happy with his test before finalizing the payment.

It may be worth mention virtualtrader was, apparently, also recently caught ripping ariba's website and falsely accusing another developer of scamming: resolved

Whatever "accumulated trust" virtualtrader my hold to you or other is irrelevant to me, additionally any ethical judicial party will remain unbiased.

I have now invested two, un-compensatable, hours into this effort and am growing frustrated with these chain of evens, as I perceive this to be an open and shut case. It is my belief that I have provided any and all angles of evidence in which may contribute to a moral and logical resolution. Thank you for your time - I await your decision.

 

The only thing this shows is his request to test the bot before finalizing payment which is the entire reason we're here. His request is invalid due to that fact he's decided this once the bot is completed and after agreeing on terms and placing the deposit. Due to the fact I did not agree to this request and it was made after the deposit - this request may be invalidated and I pretrain the right to deny.

Additionally;

• Proof from @blahberrys that you served your ToS to virtualtrader1

It is not my responsibility to deliberately seek the acceptance of my TOS, as stated:

• By contacting, contracting, or other means of receivable service* - You agree to the following conditions;

Furthermore the page containing my contact details and TOS was served, proof is within op.

Also virtualtrader is lying about finding me through RuneMate as I have no profile on their website and have no for the past ~2 years. Even more-sore I have purge all my discord contacts so it would be highly unlikely for anyone related to this business to relay my contact information, especially after being out of business for nearly a year now. In conclusion virtualtrader presumably
obtained my discord tag from the only place listed online - my sythe advertisement post.



This is probabaly true lol, if anything I think this shows my dedication to deliver a good product.
HOWEVER, this is being used in malicious context due to; these update include several request updates, and additional features added on like GUI options or construction. There are a fraction of these updates that are caused to bugs I did not find during testing or human error programming.



This is yet another lie. There was no "Re-work" that I applied which prompted him to re-test the NMZ portion of the bot.
In reality, apparently, a staff member of jagex left and this resulted in virtualtrader believing he would have better success at NMZ.

NOTE: I also don't know how many hours a day he is running at NMZ?

Secondly:

• Proof from @blahberrys that the bot EVER performed to the requirements of the customer (with proof it's the version you PROVIDED the customer, and not a last minute attempt to spruce it up)
• Proof from @blahberrys that the bot's coder-selected settings outperformed the revisions that led to additional bans on the customer's account

First iteration of NMZ bot (Bot's behavior system is mixed between his request and my interpretation for success)
Accounts were lasting "a few days" - in retrospect - I do not know his regime for botting;
if he was using good proxies, character times, botting times, etc.

I do admit I did not extensively test the NMZ portion (more than one day) on my end as I had previously had great results with NMZ and thought it to be unnecessary. I believe the results virtualtrader is having are reflected by the bot behavior as requested by the client and possibility his botting environment and/or regime.

I will now offer one last time to truly rework the bot, in which way I see fit for successful results, if provided and account.

To conclude:

• Agreement from @blahberrys that virtualtrader1 will be allowed to test the bot before purchasing, as again I think would be fair.

It is due to the aforementioned above - I am unable to offer any type of refund or willing to derive any of the agreement details.
As such the product will be delivered once payment is finalized.

Finally:

• Given virtualtraders1's accumulated trust on the site, I think it's fair to stake his reputation on delivering payment if he can be made happy with his test before finalizing the payment.

Whatever "accumulated trust" virtualtrader my hold to you or other is irrelevant to me, additionally any ethical judicial party will remain unbiased.

I have now invested two, un-compensatable, hours into this effort and am growing frustrated with these chain of evens, as I perceive this to be an open and shut case. It is my belief that I have provided any and all angles of evidence in which may contribute to a moral and logical resolution. Thank you for your time - I await your decision.

"virtualtrader1" didnt find me on runemate as i havent been in business for 2 years"

I would like to say that i reported this thread yesterday saying that i actually found you from youtube first then runemate, "when" i did that has no value in this, your just trying to get me banned for a week for conducting business with a dnted user "you thought i would just sit there and be afraid of reporting you, so you rushed into making an anti scam report on me when i told you that i was about to post my scam report.

You have nowhere told me about any ToS when we agreed on those orders, hence why i was asking you questions whether you were going to give me lifetime support or not, if i had read your ToS i wouldnt have asked such a question, i havent even seen ur threads on sythe, but the recent one that u showed me said "free support" which already means that u already are offering free lifetime support when you deliver your bots.

Screenshot - 4464d2a5e4406a934e0c21cbed5ab8de - Gyazo

"This is probabaly true lol, if anything I think this shows my dedication to deliver a good product. "

A good product shouldnt take over 20 reworked attempts by a professional coder, you promised me a nmz bot that would get me to max combat stats, so when you delivered it to me, i got banned after a day by running it 4-6hours. This leads me into thinking that your whole intention by this is that i would get tired of handing you more and more accounts and just give up and accept a loss. You dont give a fuck about delivering me a good product, even if you were, ive already given up on my hopes, your incapable of making a nmz bot that would get me a max combat account i dont want it


"First iteration of NMZ bot (Bot's behavior system is mixed between his request and my interpretation for success)"

Those 2 pictures you showed by answering MohtasaUnique requests arent showing the first bot you handed me in the start, and it wasnt mixed with me and your suggestions, it was purely made by what you would think is good, same thing you did to the sandcrab bot, and then i told you to rework on it to make it the way i wanted it and it became success, but the nmz bot kept failing, once again, i dunno how many times i should say this, your incapable of making it so forget about that fucking bot i dont want it!

 

[MohtasaUnique]

The only thing this shows is his request to test the bot before finalizing payment which is the entire reason we're here. His request is invalid due to that fact he's decided this once the bot is completed and after agreeing on terms and placing the deposit. Due to the fact I did not agree to this request and it was made after the deposit - this request may be invalidated and I pretrain the right to deny.

It is not my responsibility to deliberately seek the acceptance of my TOS, as stated:

• By contacting, contracting, or other means of receivable service* - You agree to the following conditions;

As a service provider, you must ask your customer to agree to your terms of service in writing.

• Terms such as "By contacting me you automatically agree to my ToS" and "By opening a ticket you automatically agree to my ToS" are NOT upheld on Sythe.
• However, requiring a customer to agree to your ToS before being granted access to a Discord server is valid.

No, it is your responsibility to serve your ToS. Just having it buried somewhere on your DNT sythe account, and linking it AFTER the trade is made is not admissible.

Since your NMZ bot performed consistently bad for the customer, even after numerous revisions that you did in generosity, we must now evaluate whether the bot was ever worth the payment, and subsequently whether it is a pertinent request that your customer test the new bot in order to confirm it's not another bad bot before payment.

There are two options that I can see, given these facts: 1) you do not give him the bot and the deposit is forfeited for @blahberrys to keep because @virtualtrader1 should have known you don't have a perfect track record yet still entered a new contract 2) you comply with his request to test the bot, and he will need to state his case where it does NOT perform or else he owes you the final payment.

Furthermore the page containing my contact details and TOS was served, proof is within op.

After a contract was struck and only while you were demanding final payment. How was he supposed to fairly request testing rights if he never knew it was an option, and never knew it would not be an option if he didn't ask in the first place? As stated above, your ToS are invalid as binding agreements because you did not serve them before entering the contract.

This is probabaly true lol, if anything I think this shows my dedication to deliver a good product.

There's two sides to the coin. You're dedicated to making a good product, but after 20 revisions, you weren't able to make a good product. I still haven't seen any benchmarks that prove the bot was ever worth to be sold.

There are a fraction of these updates that are caused to bugs I did not find during testing or human error programming.

If you wish this statement to have bearing on the decision of the report, you're going to need to prove how many revisions were to fix YOUR errors, versus how many to fix HIS errors. As it stands, I can only see that 20+ revisions were required, and that regardless of those revisions, all his accounts got banned.

I do admit I did not extensively test the NMZ portion (more than one day) on my end as I had previously had great results with NMZ and thought it to be unnecessary.

You should do that before trying to sell it, especially when the BIGGEST indicator of quality in a bot is whether it can fool anti-macro automation.

Whatever "accumulated trust" virtualtrader my hold to you or other is irrelevant to me, additionally any ethical judicial party will remain unbiased.

This is Sythe.org blackmarket forums, not US Supreme Court, we aren't a judicial party, we are volunteers who are asked to facilitate fair trades in a fundamentally immoral marketplace. When a trader has been on for years in good standing with a proven track record of successful trades, it most certainly proves to me his request to test the bot isn't malicious, and is made out of understandable self-presevation.

 

[blahberrys]

No, it is your responsibility to serve your ToS. Just having it buried somewhere on your DNT sythe account, and linking it AFTER the trade is made is not admissible.

TIL

There are two options that I can see, given these facts: 1) you do not give him the bot and the deposit is forfeited for @blahberrys to keep because @virtualtrader1 should have known you don't have a perfect track record yet still entered a new contract 2) you comply with his request to test the bot, and he will need to state his case where it does NOT perform or else he owes you the final payment.

Either is cool, I prefer option 1 as I'd rather not continue to work with this indiviual.

There's two sides to the coin. You're dedicated to making a good product, but after 20 revisions, you weren't able to make a good product. I still haven't seen any benchmarks that prove the bot was ever worth to be sold.

Why do you keep cutting the end my response off?

HOWEVER, this is being used in malicious context due to; these update include several request updates, and additional features added on like GUI options or construction. There are a fraction of these updates that are caused to bugs I did not find during testing or human error programming.

At least 10 of these updates are added features, eg; GUI options x(+2), prayer flicking tangibility, customizable overload withdraw, eating behaviors, camera behaviors, world hopping, attack style changing behavior, etc. I could provide proof but I'm done feeding into this as Im the only one providing chronological structure and thorough context.

This is Sythe.org blackmarket forums, not US Supreme Court, we aren't a judicial party, we are volunteers who are asked to facilitate fair trades in a fundamentally immoral marketplace. When a trader has been on for years in good standing with a proven track record of successful trades, it most certainly proves to me his request to test the bot isn't malicious, and is made out of understandable self-presevation.

I disagree, court, volunteers, or what have you - you're a party of people determining justification between others and in this manner one is morally expected to remain unbiased. Thus I do appreciate your time.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

TIL



Either is cool, I prefer option 1 as I'd rather not continue to work with this indiviual.



Why do you keep cutting the end my response off?

HOWEVER, this is being used in malicious context due to; these update include several request updates, and additional features added on like GUI options or construction. There are a fraction of these updates that are caused to bugs I did not find during testing or human error programming.

At least 10 of these updates are added features, eg; GUI options x(+2), prayer flicking tangibility, customizable overload withdraw, eating behaviors, camera behaviors, world hopping, attack style changing behavior, etc. I could provide proof but I'm done feeding into this as Im the only one providing chronological structure and thorough context.



I disagree, court, volunteers, or what have you - you're a party of people determining justification between others and in this manner one is morally expected to remain unbiased. Thus I do appreciate your time.

Your assertion is included in the overall report, I'm partial quoting in an attempt to make the conversation focused and concise, not to misrepresent the context.

We've gathered as much information as I think is necessary. The report is being considered and I've asked staff to weigh in so that my opinion is corroborated or challenged appropriately

In the meantime, please provide any additional information you think fitting, and I'll edit in details if they are pertinent.

 

[MohtasaUnique]

@virtualtrader1 = vt1
@blahberrys = bb

PART 1, vt1 bought a bot that failed one of the core requirements of a bot: the ability to avoid bans and to level up. He asserts he wants either a refund, or to waive fees on a new bot. bb asserts the bot was bad because vt1 made impertinent requests to avoid Jagex' anti-macro automation

• vt1 purchased bots off bb for $185 [1]
• construction and sand crabs worked flawlessly [2]
• NMZ has not been proved to ever be effective with proof of it functioning, although bb asserts it was bad software because of vt1's requests [3]
• Ultimately, NMZ underwent 20+ software revisions per vt1's requests resulted in 6 account bans, some of these revisions were anti-ban measures, some were product quality updates [4][5][6]
• No request for refund was made at the time, and significant time passed before this report

PART 2, vt1 entered a new agreement with bb, requesting an account creation and spamming bot. bb quoted $200, collected $100 deposit, finished the bot, and vt1 refused to make final payment on the grounds that he was never satisfied with the NMZ bot, lost value of his banned accounts, and never received his $100 value for having rented the NMZ bot in the first place.

• vt1 entered the agreement without indicating his qualms about the previous bot, and was quoted $200 [7]
• The $100 deposit was secured, and bb finished the bot in 1 month's time [8]
• vt1 requested amid development that he wanted to test it for himself on a VPS before making final payment. There is no chat logs to confirm whether bb agreed to this measure but this screenshot proves that bb was aware of the stipulation by repeating it back to vt1 in his exasperation at how he was being talked to [9]
• Now that the bot is complete, bb asserts he will NOT allow vt1 to test the bot because it wasn't requested before contracting. He claims this breaks his ToS [10]
• bb's ToS was not served until the time which bb was requesting final payment from vt1 [11]
• This assertion is invalid per Andy's thread regarding valid ToS, therefore, the request for testing before final purchase is not unreasonable [12]
• vt1 now owes $100 as the remaining balance on his contract

Final all-staff decision

First, no refund will be enforced for NMZ bot at this time. vt1 had a lot of time to request the refund. Though vt1 was kept on the hook by bb's willingness to modify the errors as well as enhance the product with GUI tweaks, the buyer in any transaction needs to know when the product isn't going to meet their specifications, and make an immediate claim to address that issue. Buyer's remorse isn't enough to invalidate the issue at hand concerning the account creation and spammer bot. The bot runs, and work was put into its creation. It's not a good bot, but bb did his best per your specifications. Since the contract is still technically live, bb should be given that chance to deliver on the product he promised without your aggression and badgering. If he never delivers, then you can make a new report for the refund of the NMZ bot.

Therefore, we have concluded there are two options moving forward:
1) a. bb allows vt1 to test the bot on vt1's own VPS for a suitable length of time to ensure it functions. If it does function, vt1 is obligated to pay the $100, or else will receive a 2-week ban and DNT until he pays back the amount and appeals his DNT status IF he refuses to pay for a functioning bot.

1) b. bb can also carry out testing on his own server over a suitable length of time and provide full screenshots and recordings that it functions. vt1 wished to run the bot himself for 3 days straight, so I would say it sounds fair that bb runs the bot himself for 3 days, and provides a full progress report of what the bot can accomplish

2) bb refuses vt1's request for testing, the deposit is forfeit, and vt1 will not owe the remaining $100 balance. No additional action will be taken, but bb will be reminded he's DNT and trading is strictly prohibited on sythe with the status of his account, and this report will be included in future pardon/appeal attempts.

Please let me know which path the two of you choose. Failure to decide will default to option #2, and the report will be closed.