Virgin Birth

[Shredderbeam]

And you're not supposed to look at it that way.. Go by the gap between Jesus' death and the time the Gospels were written, not by the time of his birth. Also, the reason there was a gap was because, back then, people would mainly communicate by word of mouth, but, the disciples feared shit would be lost over time so they decided to put it in writing before they died.

It took them 40 years to realize that?

And by once again using logic and reasoning.. does it seem plausible that the apostles could bullshit about something so detailed about one man including a bunch of random accounts of miracles? They didn't even know the earth was round or that it orbited the sunnnn; how could they be smart enough to be so detailed about the life of Jesus? And, WHY put that much effort/stress and RISK YOUR LIFE for something you can't even benefit from? that video is completely flawed. it's a piece of shit.

They didn't have the science/math to tell whether or not the Earth was round. Being able to make up a fictional character and knowing about rotation schemes of planets and suns are COMPLETELY different.

 

[dpunk]

And you're not supposed to look at it that way.. Go by the gap between Jesus' death and the time the Gospels were written, not by the time of his birth. Also, the reason there was a gap was because, back then, people would mainly communicate by word of mouth, but, the disciples feared shit would be lost over time so they decided to put it in writing before they died.

I did go by the time of his supposed death, that was a typo. Theres a 40 year gap. The Gospels were all written around 70 C.E.

And by once again using logic and reasoning.. does it seem plausible that the apostles could bullshit about something so detailed about one man including a bunch of random accounts of miracles? They didn't even know the earth was round or that it orbited the sunnnn; how could they be smart enough to be so detailed about the life of Jesus?

The reason the Gospels, for the most part at least, are coherent is because they were all based off of the Gospel of Mark, which was the first written.

And, WHY put that much effort/stress and RISK YOUR LIFE for something you can't even benefit from?

You can't benefit from going to heaven when you die?

that video is completely flawed. it's a piece of shit.

Care to expound instead of making such general statements?

 

[Shredderbeam]

Do you really not understand? Should I be more inconsequential like this statement: "The evidence that there was no historical man named Jesus is the lack of evidence that there was." Lack of evidence doesn't prove the opposite. If there was proof for any of your theories I'm sure you'd be doing something more productive with your lack of beliefs than promoting debate of someone else's faith here on Sythe. Why are you so pro-atheist? It seems like you want a religion about anti-religion. I go to a liberal university and I know atheists that are against what you are doing right now.

As for my previous post which makes perfect sense... You said people after Jesus' death would have been happy to die because they would go to heaven. I'm saying, you're wrong, they would be happy to spread the word and flee from persecution. It is because they spread this word that we have it today, not because they all wanted to die to go to heaven.

The burden of proving his existence is laid upon the faithful, for there is no reason to disprove what has not been proven.

 

[dpunk]

Do you really not understand? Should I be more inconsequential like this statement: "The evidence that there was no historical man named Jesus is the lack of evidence that there was." Lack of evidence doesn't prove the opposite. If there was proof for any of your theories I'm sure you'd be doing something more productive with your lack of beliefs than promoting debate of someone else's faith here on Sythe.

If there is no evidence for something then what reason is there to believe that it is true? The reason for it not to be true is that there is no reason for it to be true. Following Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is the best one. Theres no need to assume something that is unneeded. Without evidence, the initial statement has no reason to be believed and is therefore unneeded.

Why are you so pro-atheist? It seems like you want a religion about anti-religion. I go to a liberal university and I know atheists that are against what you are doing right now.

My zeal as far as Atheism goes has nothing to do with this debate.

As for my previous post which makes perfect sense... You said people after Jesus' death would have been happy to die because they would go to heaven. I'm saying, you're wrong, they would be happy to spread the word and flee from persecution. It is because they spread this word that we have it today, not because they all wanted to die to go to heaven.

True they would have been happy not to die, but would that make them not willing? The term martyr means "to die for a cause". If they were dying so that others might be saved, it seems they would be happy to do so.

It seems as though you have no arguments of your own and just resort to futilely attacking the statements of others.

 

[rabies1982]

why is it if you go to a major place of worship your religous and if you visit in a barn on some guys farm your crazy? Personally if you base your everyday life on some freak who got nailed to a cross thousands of years ago you should be labeled as others like you! Kool-AID or wine your apparently made from the same crazy bubble. At least the amish are keeping it real! (No im not amish obviously) What can the rest of the religions say they do? War? Wait thats right Jesus won the super bowl that last 40 years i forgot. Oh and why is it that religous people always think they are so much better than the rest of the worlds population? I also love how people always say that they are going to church all proud. You keep thinking that church will save you! Also you high and mighty religous people why is it it only comes out when everything is good? If your 55 years old you lose your job house wife kids and everything else you may have what are you gonna do i know your not gonna walk down the street saying to yourself "i would just like to thank jesus for taking everything i ever had and would like to also gove a shout out to my loving family who abandoned me" For all of you sane people out there thanks for not being so gullible! and to all of you religious freaks out there....GO FUCK YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Arch Angel Z]

rabies1982: You sound like you have rabies. A little jealous? No one thinks they're better than anyone; that's a personal matter not religous matter.

 

[Justin^]

One thing I have to say. I don't believe the stories in the bible to be true. But thats not what matters. It is not the story that really matters, its the inspiration and guidance you get within the book and yourself.

Though big problem is, I'm sure the bible has been written/edited/faked over the thousands of years. It's god's/jesus' word but its still written by other people.

By the way, for those who like to ask for 'proof'.. they should realize its not about that. It's actually about faith. Meaning believing in something even if theres an absence of proof. People usually forget that there are great life lessons in the bible, fit for everyone, whether they are believers or not.

 

[christ_like]

My opinion. Jesus was a real person. That has been proved. Is he holy in any way, many of his time seemed to believe so, but that is not proof enough. There are so many tales retold and retold nobody knows the truth about the man, so the Bible is ONLY a story, not confirmed, although in my opinion, he was holy, and that's all I can really say.

 

[magic blade]

what i dont understand was if christians say jesus is god how can he pray to god?

 

[dpunk]

...for there is no reason to disprove what can not be proven. That's why it's called faith.

Faith is a cop-out. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can’t be taken on its own merits.

There are plenty of non-Christian people that believe there is truth to, what others consider to be, theories. Try explaining the origins of life. That's why it's called faith.

Studying the origins of life requires no faith. You look at evidence. If its there, then you count the theory as plausible, if not, then its not plausible. There are a lot of plausible theories for explaining the origin of life, there just isn't enough sufficient evidence yet to make it fact.

Creationism would actually be the simplest explanation due to evolution's improbability.

No. If the explanation of the universe is a creator, you still have to come up with an explanation for the creator. Evolution by Natural Selection is a very simple concept.

You also contradict yourself by saying that Jesus didn't exist. Wouldn't it be simpler if he did exist instead of what you think?

It is simpler for something to not exist than for it to exist, so no, there isn't a contradiction.

I said you were wrong in thinking they died intentionally to get to heaven. There is a big difference between martyrdom and suicide.

I never said they committed suicide now did I?

 

[weedpker]

"if we are all children of god, what makes jesus so special?" seen that somewhere

 

[Shredderbeam]

If Sythe debates broke your faith then maybe it wasn't strong enough in the place. I wouldn't base life choices around a runescape site. I'd rather believe that God is from another galaxy and he sent his son (via star of Bethlehem) with a bunch of little green men (UFOs are Angels!)... as long as its intelligent design

Sythe debates didn't break my faith, it was my encounters with a few ignorant Christians here that made me realize I wasn't being logical at all.

That's why it's called faith.

"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits." - Dan Barker, former evangelist.

what i dont understand was if christians say jesus is god how can he pray to god?

Apparently, the work-around for this threat to monotheism is that Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and God are all one. They are three seperate entities AND the one God at the same time.

 

[Arch Angel Z]

No. If the explanation of the universe is a creator, you still have to come up with an explanation for the creator. Evolution by Natural Selection is a very simple concept.

Please remember that God is beyond our comprehension! Our little minds are nowhere hear his.

 

[A Soul's Bounds]

Us Muslims believe that God wasn't his Jesus's father and that nor Jesus was God's son. God has simply done a miracle to prove to the people that he could do anything by proving that a father wasn't needed to have kids, he proved that he can be solely responsible for the creation of man.

 

[dpunk]

Please remember that God is beyond our comprehension! Our little minds are nowhere hear his.

No shit. You can't comprehend something that you have no evidence that it even exists in the first place.

 

[Arch Angel Z]

dpunk how many times do I have to say GOOGLE?

 

[justafan]

I am a devoute christian, just so that people can't say I didn't say it. I forgot who said it now, but someone stated that the word almah was used in the Old Testament, not the word virgin. They said that the word doesn't mean virgin at all, however the world almah refers to "a young woman of marriageable age who is still in the state of virginity." Therefore saying almah is basicly saying virgin who hasn't yet married. I just thought that that should be cleared up as now you can't say that the Old Testament was misinturpreted by the Gosple writers, or that they changed it to make it more "interesting."

 

[dpunk]

dpunk how many times do I have to say GOOGLE?

However many times you want to say things that are irrelevant to this debate I guess.

I am a devoute christian, just so that people can't say I didn't say it. I forgot who said it now, but someone stated that the word almah was used in the Old Testament, not the word virgin. They said that the word doesn't mean virgin at all, however the world almah refers to "a young woman of marriageable age who is still in the state of virginity." Therefore saying almah is basicly saying virgin who hasn't yet married. I just thought that that should be cleared up as now you can't say that the Old Testament was misinturpreted by the Gosple writers, or that they changed it to make it more "interesting."

The definition is "girl of marriageable age or married", basically young woman. There was no reference to virginity.

 

[justafan]

I simply would like to ask where do you translate this from? Because I am simply going off what my Bible is telling me... I have a concordia self study Bible. It would be nice to get some references as to where you got almah translated, or did you simply read it off wikipedia?

 

[dpunk]

I simply would like to ask where do you translate this from? Because I am simply going off what my Bible is telling me... I have a concordia self study Bible. It would be nice to get some references as to where you got almah translated, or did you simply read it off wikipedia?

Most of the time you can just type in "almah" into Google and get something about controversial translation. Heres one example:

http://www.cresourcei.org/isa7-14.html