Vaynes champ tier

[S]

yeah i understand that and it should be like that... But like Ow 3 Hit said Vayne has so much mobility, cc, % shred and mini stealth, 1v1 i only see draven, cait and tristana killing her lategame... not lucian, sivir or jynx

Vayne is simply a champ that requires said player to have flawless mechanics. She has a terrible win rate for a reason.

Also, cait and draven will no way be able to kill vayne 1 on 1 if items are on par. Vayne is undoubtedly the best 1v1 adc duellist in the game.

 

[Ow 3 Hit]

yeah i understand that and it should be like that... But like Ow 3 Hit said Vayne has so much mobility, cc, % shred and mini stealth, 1v1 i only see draven, cait and tristana killing her lategame... not lucian, sivir or jynx

Trist is the only one on that list that can 1v1 Vayne.

And that's if she's not near a wall, if he gets his condemn off there's literally no way to 1v1 him... And it's really easy to reposition as Vayne, aa into ult + q means you don't even get an auto off... pop up with q auto damage + e into wall, and you're 3/4'd. And Vayne is still so good without his ult you can't all-in Vayne even as Khazix if you just get insta-e. It's up to your top lane bruiser + jungle to kill off Vayne in 1 go or GG teamfight.

But by FAR Vayne is the harder ADC to play properly. Your judgment needs to be good. You need to notice opportunities as they happen. I've seen top tier Vayne players turn in on 1v3's and just outplay them so god damn hard it's unreal.

 

[Shiningkun]

calm down, assuming skill is the same, and its max lategame, your telling me cait cant kill vayne? rofl.

 

[LoLSmurfin]

Trist is the only one on that list that can 1v1 Vayne.

And that's if she's not near a wall, if he gets his condemn off there's literally no way to 1v1 him... And it's really easy to reposition as Vayne, aa into ult + q means you don't even get an auto off... pop up with q auto damage + e into wall, and you're 3/4'd. And Vayne is still so good without his ult you can't all-in Vayne even as Khazix if you just get insta-e. It's up to your top lane bruiser + jungle to kill off Vayne in 1 go or GG teamfight.

But by FAR Vayne is the harder ADC to play properly. Your judgment needs to be good. You need to notice opportunities as they happen. I've seen top tier Vayne players turn in on 1v3's and just outplay them so god damn hard it's unreal.

Tristana, Draven, and Varus (who you don't respect, which is why I play him for a 70%+ winrate in high Diamond) can all 1v1 Vayne late. You're saying the Vayne player needs to have perfect mechanics, then you're not considering the other player has perfect mechanics to be fair.

And then you're telling us to "E them into a wall, and they're dead." Well, yeah, no shit. It's a stun in an AD carry duel. But any mechanically decent player trying to 1v1 a Vayne isn't going to be anywhere near a wall, regardless of her mobility.

 

[Ow 3 Hit]

Tristana, Draven, and Varus (who you don't respect, which is why I play him for a 70%+ winrate in high Diamond) can all 1v1 Vayne late. You're saying the Vayne player needs to have perfect mechanics, then you're not considering the other player has perfect mechanics to be fair.

And then you're telling us to "E them into a wall, and they're dead." Well, yeah, no shit. It's a stun in an AD carry duel. But any mechanically decent player trying to 1v1 a Vayne isn't going to be anywhere near a wall, regardless of her mobility.

I don't know why you think Varus has good dueling potential at all. He's a poke/initiate ADC reliant on his Q. He has 0 escapes, and an easily dodged ult. Perfect mechanics don't exist on champions with skill shots, it's either you land it or you don't.

So I understand your point, an even gold Vayne vs an even gold Varus and I don't see how you can say Varus will win. You have to turn to 1v1 as BotrK + Vayne's massive movement speed. I'm not taking into account supports, I'm taking into account Varus vs Vayne. Most go legolas build as once again, Varus is used for Q poke + initiate/disengage.

He has no duelling potential and it's laughable to say a Varus won't be near a wall. All I'm picturing is a Vayne poking Varus to 75% - and just straight ult'ing him into botrk If Vayne can't dodge Varus ult just condemn him away before it lands/into wall.

 

[Kaosune]

I don't know why you think Varus has good dueling potential at all. He's a poke/initiate ADC reliant on his Q. He has 0 escapes, and an easily dodged ult. Perfect mechanics don't exist on champions with skill shots, it's either you land it or you don't.

So I understand your point, an even gold Vayne vs an even gold Varus and I don't see how you can say Varus will win. You have to turn to 1v1 as BotrK + Vayne's massive movement speed. I'm not taking into account supports, I'm taking into account Varus vs Vayne. Most go legolas build as once again, Varus is used for Q poke + initiate/disengage.

He has no duelling potential and it's laughable to say a Varus won't be near a wall. All I'm picturing is a Vayne poking Varus to 75% - and just straight ult'ing him into botrk If Vayne can't dodge Varus ult just condemn him away before it lands/into wall.

Let's assume Varus is reliant on his Q to win duels. You're forgetting about his snare (which btw is much easier to land than Vayne's stun). And, if you dodge the snare with tumble, you don't have a fast escape for the Q you claim Varus is so reliant upon.

Regarding Vayne's poke, there aren't many adc's that Vayne outranges; trying to poke an adc, would become a trade. And, in order for Vayne to win trades, she needs to proc her w.

Also, why is Varus away from a wall so laughable?

 

[LoLSmurfin]

Let's assume Varus is reliant on his Q to win duels. You're forgetting about his snare (which btw is much easier to land than Vayne's stun). And, if you dodge the snare with tumble, you don't have a fast escape for the Q you claim Varus is so reliant upon.

Regarding Vayne's poke, there aren't many adc's that Vayne outranges; trying to poke an adc, would become a trade. And, in order for Vayne to win trades, she needs to proc her w.

Also, why is Varus away from a wall so laughable?

Pretty much all of this, yep. You're also ignoring his E's nearly impossible to miss 50% healing/lifesteal debuff and acting like Vayne's Q cooldown is literally 0.

 

[the_dealer]

Pro Vayne > any other ADC

those 1v1s at level 6 and on can just snowball her so hard and its gg

 

[KerokeroCola]

Pro Vayne > any other ADC

those 1v1s at level 6 and on can just snowball her so hard and its gg

A pro Vayne is the best ADC there is? Let's look at the top 3 ADC's at worlds were:

1) Corki
2) Caitlyn
3) Ezreal
0) Not Vayne



Vayne's good, but she's balanced. She has moments where she is a very good pick, but in an average game, the unbalanced ADCs are simply better.

 

[Kaosune]

Pro Vayne > any other ADC

those 1v1s at level 6 and on can just snowball her so hard and its gg

That could've been an option back when vayne's ult didn't have a 100 sec cd.

 

[Sypherz]

Pro Vayne > any other ADC

those 1v1s at level 6 and on can just snowball her so hard and its gg

pro vayne plays against pro players and then becomes not so pro anymore because they know how to deal with her.

 

[KerokeroCola]

Pro Vayne in Bronze V > everything because you can outplay people so well with her kit

Vayne with an equal skill matchup can easily be beat

 

[Acetate]

I think Vayne still has a place in the game. She's a strong duelest and can pretty much duel any ADC past 6. She also has a lot of outplay potential.

 

[Ow 3 Hit]

Let's assume Varus is reliant on his Q to win duels. You're forgetting about his snare (which btw is much easier to land than Vayne's stun). And, if you dodge the snare with tumble, you don't have a fast escape for the Q you claim Varus is so reliant upon.

Regarding Vayne's poke, there aren't many adc's that Vayne outranges; trying to poke an adc, would become a trade. And, in order for Vayne to win trades, she needs to proc her w.

Also, why is Varus away from a wall so laughable?

Vayne does not need to proc his w to win trades, what kind of bronze talk is this?

What kind of Vayne cares about trading anyway? He can't trade against an equally good player, but he can easily just let the wave push to his turret and lifesteal it back. Any good ADC knows how to lane, this is only evident at Diamond 1 60 LP+ though.

And any person knows, if you're overextended without a lead(items or levels) - Vayne can and will 1v1 you. And it's laughable for you to say not go near a wall as there literally everywhere. There's countless possibilities of an ADC being near a wall, even more so for the support you're laning with.

Vayne is broken, simple as that. Nobody can 1v1 him at lvl 6 without an item lead. If he's fed, the game is basically over unless you have insta-cc.

 

[Ow 3 Hit]

Pretty much all of this, yep. You're also ignoring his E's nearly impossible to miss 50% healing/lifesteal debuff and acting like Vayne's Q cooldown is literally 0.

You do realize his lvl 1 Q is 6 seconds, and his lvl 5 Q is 2 seconds right?

That basically is 0 in comparison to Varus Q being 16 seconds lvl 1 and 8 at 5. And his E being 18 seconds lvl 1, and 10 lvl 5.

What kind of burst is when it's reliant on auto attacks?

What counters Varus is someone able to dodge his Q.

And yet you say Varus can dominate Vayne?

So much derp.

 

[jezix]

Can someone explain why Vayne is so bad now? Is it because of the E nerf?

she is bad because of the repetent nerfs to her skills, botrk nerf, other ADC buffs and high skill cap.

 

[Lady]

When vayne is slowed, theres near nothing she can do against a gank. Not a choice pick for ADC.

 

[the_dealer]

rofl
so you guys are ignoring what uzi was doing on vayne?

[youtube]G0WbmV1nnVw[/youtube]

they really dealt well with him didn't they
just because royal didn't win, doesn't mean that Vayne was not, at least, in the top 3 list at worlds

sure, corki was
caitlyn was ok
and ezreal was only good because pigglet is good with him

 

[Kaosune]

Vayne does not need to proc his w to win trades, what kind of bronze talk is this?

What kind of Vayne cares about trading anyway? He can't trade against an equally good player, but he can easily just let the wave push to his turret and lifesteal it back. Any good ADC knows how to lane, this is only evident at Diamond 1 60 LP+ though.

And any person knows, if you're overextended without a lead(items or levels) - Vayne can and will 1v1 you. And it's laughable for you to say not go near a wall as there literally everywhere. There's countless possibilities of an ADC being near a wall, even more so for the support you're laning with.

Vayne is broken, simple as that. Nobody can 1v1 him at lvl 6 without an item lead. If he's fed, the game is basically over unless you have insta-cc.

You're talking about laning here. Unless you're camping a brush, there's little to no reason to be near a wall (yes, that is my case when I'm adc'ing). It's "laughable" for you to say that my comment is laughable without providing an argument of why it is.

And yes, Vayne does need to proc her w to win trades. Let's place an example with Varus (the adc you underestimate). They both require some ASPD, so they should have similar ASPD. Sure, Vayne's base damage is slightly higher than Varus; but while Vayne needs 3 AA's to proc her W, Varus can proc it on the first one. In this scenario, Vayne can choose to poke with tumble, but that gets rid of the dodging potential Vayne has. Yes, her Q has a 2 sec cooldown at lvl 5, but how long do you think a duel between adc's takes?

You do realize his lvl 1 Q is 6 seconds, and his lvl 5 Q is 2 seconds right?

That basically is 0 in comparison to Varus Q being 16 seconds lvl 1 and 8 at 5. And his E being 18 seconds lvl 1, and 10 lvl 5.

What kind of burst is when it's reliant on auto attacks?

What counters Varus is someone able to dodge his Q.

And yet you say Varus can dominate Vayne?

So much derp.

Refer to the above in regards to Vayne's Q.

The OP side of Vayne is her W. Her W is proc'd only by AA's.
'nuff sed

rofl
so you guys are ignoring what uzi was doing on vayne?



they really dealt well with him didn't they
just because royal didn't win, doesn't mean that Vayne was not, at least, in the top 3 list at worlds

sure, corki was
caitlyn was ok
and ezreal was only good because pigglet is good with him

That was a teamfight.
A beautiful teamfight by the way. The Vayne was awesomely positioned, went in at the right time and made a good use of his resources (namely, the effect the ult has on tumble). However, that only proves that he's a good player, not that Vayne, as a champ, can 1v1 adc's, or doesn't have any disadvantage against most adc's.

 

[the_dealer]

That was a teamfight.
A beautiful teamfight by the way. The Vayne was awesomely positioned, went in at the right time and made a good use of his resources (namely, the effect the ult has on tumble). However, that only proves that he's a good player, not that Vayne, as a champ, can 1v1 adc's, or doesn't have any disadvantage against most adc's.

my point was
pro vayne > other adcs