The Start

[RS2Sms]

Shredder, Please add me on MSN - We can have our little debate thier rather then flooding this topic.

[email protected]


i am you aint i, also add me, but if your gonna compare God to unicorns and call my religion bullshit. I'd really rather not.

and that quote from carm.org is really meaningful, As we were taught what these things mean as we were children and understood them as we matured.

Please, Anyone who wants to debate add my MSN, I could give you a personal email aswell maybe. Ok thanks.

 

[TJ]

Please dude don't let your emotions get ahold of you, this is more or less worthless shit that you have posted, you asked for information and I provided.

I will answer these statements again, but please don't be such a bitch about you discussions when I simply provide answeres to questions you were asking.



When you show me an unicorn, I will show you Jesus.

Thanks, you just answered my question. I cannot show you a unicorn and you cannot show me Jesus. Neither exist maybe? Who knows.

You constantly make a comparison between unicorns and God, is this just a childish way for you to vent your anger? If you have a problem with my religion don't call it a load of bs, prove me, someone younger then you, wrong.

Why you consist on calling me a child? How do you know im a child? Maybe im a 20 year old. Please, why not think of what you are saying before you say it? And vent my anger? How do i show signs of anger? If i was angery, i would be TYPING IN CAPS, puting ! marks, etc.

The Bible is composed of many books, written before, during, and after the time of Jesus. The Bible is not only Biblical, but is a great refrence for history, if you deny the Bible, you are denying parts of hitory we know as fact. The books of the Bible were composed at councils during the 4th or 5th century I beleive.

Do you know that this book was written during the time of "Jesus" Um no.


edit/

i am you aint i, also add me, but if your gonna compare God to unicorns and call my religion bullshit. I'd really rather not.

I just love how both are magical. What im trying to get to, is that unicorns have about the same existence beliefs as god has. You cannot disprove either, and maybe both dont exist.

edit yet again/

And me being childish? Pssh, your the one that is flaming people for stating stuff. Not my fault.

 

[Shawn_]

Nice try at connecting what you're doing in math class to SFA, but you fail...

Problems with your graph: there is no negative time... or time=0 either.. there is no "beginning of time persay" but let's just assume there is....

You need to chop off the entire left side of the X axis... you should label your axis.. and you need to realize the importance of log/exponential graphs instead of hyperbolic graphs. According to your hyperbola, negative time ago, the universe was increasing negatively apparently.... right....

Also, your upper curve is going the wrong way.. what you have now represents that as time moves on the universe is getting smaller, while you yourself says that it expands.

Nice.

Edit: Oh yeh.. it's spelled "asymptote", too.

y = 1/x yE(0,infinity)

There you go, a restriction on the y variable making it greater than 0. NOW WHAT?

I think what he was getting at is that there is no beginning or end of time, and is only using that as an example.

 

[jebckr]

y = 1/x yE(0,infinity)

There you go, a restriction on the y variable making it greater than 0. NOW WHAT?

I think what he was getting at is that there is no beginning or end of time, and is only using that as an example.

Exactly, a graph of e to the x power might be more fitting, as it goes on forever negativly and possitive.

Still the x axis as the asymptote represents finate, and the graph represents infinant. I know time isn't really an exponential growth, but still it proves my point, no begging and no end.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Do you know that this book was written during the time of "Jesus" Um no.

First off... you said you were 16, you stated your facts in a very childish pissed off maner, I wish you would reply to many of the things I reply, instead of a selective view.

Yes there is plenty of proof that proves the Bible was written around the Time of Jesus.

With your quotes, I am guessing you deny that Jesus Christ even existed, but I must say denying Jesus Christ existed as a human being, is one of the stupidest things you can say at this point, because I know even most of the Athiests here at Sythe would agree with me, that Jesus Christ was once on earth, there is plenty of proof outside of the Bible.


I will post proof of everything I have said above, as soon as I get back from my friends basketball game.

 

[TJ]

First off... you said you were 16, you stated your facts in a very childish pissed off maner, I wish you would reply to many of the things I reply, instead of a selective view.

Yes there is plenty of proof that proves the Bible was written around the Time of Jesus.

With your quotes, I am guessing you deny that Jesus Christ even existed, but I must say denying Jesus Christ existed as a human being, is one of the stupidest things you can say at this point, because I know even most of the Athiests here at Sythe would agree with me, that Jesus Christ was once on earth, there is plenty of proof outside of the Bible.


I will post proof of everything I have said above, as soon as I get back from my friends basketball game.

Nope i have not yet posted anything in a pissed off manor. If i would post something in a pissed off manor, i would probably tell you, since thats the kind of guy i am.

Anyways back on topic.

Show me some proof that the bible was written around the time of jesus when you get back.

And yes i have to deny he existed because i was not around during the time, and i cannot accept it. What all proof is there?

Once again, i know your away but once you get back please post your information. And if you want proof of evolution let me know and i will find it.

 

[Macroman]

Thus which denies the theory of Bigbang, And also that of a Greater Being.

I believe that matter was just simply Created, Making the first law Incorrect.

 

[jebckr]

Thus which denies the theory of Bigbang, And also that of a Greater Being.

I believe that matter was just simply Created, Making the first law Incorrect.

People always asume matter from the big bang had to come from somewhere. Space and time and matter are all interrelated. Man has developed a contorted concept of what time really is. To put it simply, as my graphs don't seem to have much effect, it has always been here, always existed. A universe that is infinatly expanding thus the farther back in time you go the smaller it was. Take for example a block of cheese; you can cut it in half until you get down to an atom. Then does it stop? No, it can be divided infinate time into smaller subatomic sizes, BUT will never end.

edit: dont be an ass and say something like "so are you saying the block of cheese has always been there?" it's an example...

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Nope i have not yet posted anything in a pissed off manor. If i would post something in a pissed off manor, i would probably tell you, since thats the kind of guy i am.

Anyways back on topic.

Show me some proof that the bible was written around the time of jesus when you get back.

And yes i have to deny he existed because i was not around during the time, and i cannot accept it. What all proof is there?

Once again, i know your away but once you get back please post your information. And if you want proof of evolution let me know and i will find it.

deny what you want, its not up to me to be a judge of your attitude.

Proof of the existence of Jesus:

The historical Jesus is Jesus of Nazareth as reconstructed by historians using historical methods. These historical methods use critical analysis of gospel texts as the primary source for the biography of Jesus, along with non-biblical sources to reconstruct the historical context of first-century Judea. These methods do not include theological or religious axioms, such as biblical infallibility. Though the reconstructions vary, they generally agree on these basic points: Jesus was a Jewish teacher[1] who attracted a small following of Galileans and, after a period of ministry, was crucified by the Romans in the Iudaea Province during the governorship of Pontius Pilate. The quest for the historical Jesus began with the work of Hermann Samuel Reimarus.[2]

if you need more proof, or more of the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus


Proof of the time the Bible was written:

The Bible is a compilation of various texts or "books" of different ages. While the books of the New Testament may be dated with some confidence, the dates of many of the texts of the Hebrew Bible are difficult to establish. Textual criticism places all of them within the 1st millennium BC[citation needed], while traditionalist schools assign the Pentateuch a 15th century BC to 13th century BC date.

if you would like to read the full artcile its at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible




you must deny everything that happened before the day you were born by that logic.

there is no "proof" of evolution, if there was actually proof that it happened, then it would be a proven fact, and everyone in the world would be athiest, but it is not a proven fact, therefore most of the world remains religious.

 

[Shredderbeam]

there is no "proof" of evolution, if there was actually proof that it happened, then it would be a proven fact, and everyone in the world would be athiest, but it is not a proven fact, therefore most of the world remains religious.

Evolution is basically as proven as it can reasonably be.

Also, evolution does not necessitate a Godless world.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Evolution is basically as proven as it can reasonably be.

Also, evolution does not necessitate a Godless world.

He said proof of evolution, there is no actual proof, there is only evidence for evolution. There is a fine difference between evidence, and proof.

I was simply stating that if there was undeniable proof of evolution, then the world would turn to the views that seemed to be the truest.

 

[TJ]

as you can see, the human skulls change over time.
and if there was a god, why would he make different skull sizes?
No i do not deny everything that happened before my time, because i cannot deny wars, evolution, industrial revolution, etc.

I have to deny that there is something out there that was there "before time"

 

[arsenal_osborne]

How can something be created out of nothing? The universe must have bin created by someone or something!

Yes it must of but what would of created the thing that created the universe and if so what was the first thing that created anything and if so how would it be possible to get here/ appear from nothing?

 

[jebckr]

Yes it must of but what would of created the thing that created the universe and if so what was the first thing that created anything and if so how would it be possible to get here/ appear from nothing?

*sigh* no one reads my posts anymore. Time is an allusion, existance has always existed. The big bang never wasn't necessarily the start, before the actualy bang there was still something, the universe still existed in an infinatley dense never ending subatomic sized particle that gets smaller and smaller (an atom shriking at the speed of light the farther back you go before the "big bang") The size is impossible to comprehend, but something can't come from nothing, BUT something can always exist. People are the ones who can't wrap their minds around this idea, so they asume there must have been a beggining of time. This is simply wrong.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

Yes it must of but what would of created the thing that created the universe and if so what was the first thing that created anything and if so how would it be possible to get here/ appear from nothing?

Read quotes from above, this question has been answered, if you are refering to what Created God.

We can only partially comprehend the notion of God's existence. To do so, we must use human concepts to speak of God: "without beginning or end"; "eternal"; "infinite", etc. The Bible says that He has always existed: " . . . even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God" (Psalm 90:2). And, "Your throne is established from of old; Thou art from everlasting" (Psalm 93:2). Quite simply, God has no beginning and no end. So, where did God come from? He didn't. He always was.
To us, the notion of time is linear. One second follows the next, one minute is after another. We get older, not younger and we cannot repeat the minutes that have passed us by. We have all seen the time lines on charts: early time is on the left and later time is on the right. We see nations, people's lives, and plans mapped out on straight lines from left to right. We see a beginning and an end. But God is "beyond the chart." He has no beginning or end. He simply has always been.
Also, physics has shown that time is a property that is the result of the existence of matter. Time exists when matter exists. Time has even been called the fourth dimension. But God is not matter. In fact, God created matter. He created the universe. So, time began when God created the universe. Before that, God was simply existing and time had no meaning (except conceptually), no relation to Him. Therefore, to ask where God came from is to ask a question that cannot really be applied to God in the first place. Because time has no meaning with God in relation to who He is, eternity is also not something that can be absolutely related to God. God is even beyond eternity.
Eternity is a term that we finite creatures use to express the concept of something that has no end -- and/or no beginning. Since God has no beginning or end, He has no beginning. This is because He is outside of time.

as you can see, the human skulls change over time.
and if there was a god, why would he make different skull sizes?
No i do not deny everything that happened before my time, because i cannot deny wars, evolution, industrial revolution, etc.

I have to deny that there is something out there that was there "before time"

A picture is nothing, where were these skulls found? are they faked evidence?

against states the questions from above.


You do not have to deny anything, you are not being threatened at a life or death situation to believe something or not. You choose to deny the existance of something that has existed, and shall exist for ever. That is your own oppinion, and I do not have a place to change what you believe.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Read quotes from above, this question has been answered, if you are refering to what Created God.




A picture is nothing, where were these skulls found? are they faked evidence?

against states the questions from above.


You do not have to deny anything, you are not being threatened at a life or death situation to believe something or not. You choose to deny the existance of something that has existed, and shall exist for ever. That is your own oppinion, and I do not have a place to change what you believe.

What I'm not sure of is, if God can exist timelessly, why couldn't a naturalistic cause of the universe do so?

 

[RS2Sms]

Because if God Made the universe to worship him.. People wouldn't acknowledge him whatsoever because they don't need him.

Think of God as a programmer.. He created this awesome program.. Gave it a time frame so that at the end of this time frame the program would self-destruct. If God the creator made this program go forever and never wear out or self-destruct. Why would anybody recognize him? What would the point of it be? So by giving us time, Yet we never know when the end will come. So we must always recognize the creator so that he can acknowledge those good too him and give us something better after this program.

Please note - This was not completely my idea.. But most of it was.

 

[Shredderbeam]

So, because the universe ends, God exists? First, that logic is flawed. Second, the universe isn't going to end. It's expansion is accelerating.

 

[imnotcrazy357]

So, because the universe ends, God exists? First, that logic is flawed. Second, the universe isn't going to end. It's expansion is accelerating.

1. Every finite and contingent being has a cause.
2. Nothing finite and dependent (contingent) can cause itself.
3. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
4. Therefore, there must be a first cause; or, there must be something that is not an effect.

 

[Shredderbeam]

1. Every finite and contingent being has a cause.
2. Nothing finite and dependent (contingent) can cause itself.
3. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length.
4. Therefore, there must be a first cause; or, there must be something that is not an effect.

I only contest #3. Something can exist eternally.