Sythe Rule Reform -- which rules do you want gone?

Dear users,

We are doing something new here at sythe.org today. SRR -- Sythe Rule Reform.

You guys can vote to have rules removed from the rule book right here. The discussion is open for all rules, for all users -- even banned users posting through a friend. Although keep in mind that rules which are also laws cannot be changed through this reform.

Over the years we have also built up a culture of things which are not codified explicitly but are essentially against the rules. In order to overturn these, I propose also an "allowed book" (I.e. a bill of rights) to go along with the rule book. If you think certain behaviours should be protected you can also post those opinions here.

So let's begin... The rule book is here:
http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=148431

Edit:
So if you guys identify a proposed change you think everyone should vote on, please make a poll, and we will edit this thread to include the links to various polls on various rules. Just preface your thread with SRR Poll -- (rule to be revised here) and post it in Community General.


Polls:

• Offsite Offenses - http://sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1496018
• Warez 1 Month Ban - http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=1496036

 

[S]

Ill edit this post when I'm back, in detail. Possible to get a poll going? Easier to collate and see what the general consensus is.

 

Ill edit this post when I'm back, in detail. Possible to get a poll going? Easier to collate and see what the general consensus is.

I'd like to keep it as a discussion for the moment. When people settle on generally preferred changes I may launch a poll or just change the rules directly, depending on how important I classify the change to be.

 

[Syed]

Malicious Off-site Activities: If you are found to have committed offences elsewhere (as in, on other sites) which would constitute a ban here on Sythe.org had they been committed here, we may use these offences as an indicator of your character and choose to ban you from Sythe.org. Offences committed prior to your Sythe.org membership may also be considered depending on the nature of the offence.

^^^^^

 

I personally think temp bans or TWC of things that happened long time ago and where is noticeable that the user has changed need to be removed.

I mean, I got banned for 2 self-vouchs done to my older Sythe account that I didn't even remember back in 2007. Simply "WTF"
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I support the removal of Trading Auth Codes: Auth codes from RSBots.net, autofighter and similar (This is a trading forum! Anything legal should be allowed to be traded)
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I support a change of Requiring Vouches: You may not promise/require a vouch in the market. Vouches are given when the user you're dealing with feels you deserve a vouch, and no one is obligated to vouch under any circumstances. (I once got a warning for having "Appreciated: A vouch in my vouch thread"
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Live help is gone so... Abusing Sythe.org LiveHelp: trolling or otherwise abusing the Sythe.org LiveHelp system. (Including, but not limited to, opening chats and closing them, being rude to staff members, and so on.)
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This is stupid: PIN Sales: Sale of membership PINs is strictly prohibited. Any discussion of this will be infracted. If it continues, you will be banned for 1 month.

Many upgrades are from PBP/SMS pins. Just force the sellers to make it clear that they are pins and make them responsible for negative credit + new upgrade!
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Thank you.

EDIT:
Capitalization and other "minor" changes are included in this rule regardless of how "minor" the change may seem. Asking staff members for a name change in violation of these rules may result in an infraction.

I support capitalization. I got it done by Finn years ago, is not the same the black tux as The Black Tux. Plus that's not a name change.

 

[x339]

What happens off sythe.org, stays off sythe.org.

Users should only be banned for offenses that occur on Sythe.

 

[S]

What happens off sythe.org, stays off sythe.org.

Users should only be banned for offenses that occur on Sythe.

Disagree here. If someone scams 10B offsite, they should be allowed to trade here? More than likely to scam again?

 

[Piramid]

What happens off sythe.org, stays off sythe.org.

Users should only be banned for offenses that occur on Sythe.

Agreed, I think offsite offenses shouldn't be bannable.

 

[JohnK]

dont think any rule reform will save sythe..

 

[S]

Agreed, I think offsite offenses shouldn't be bannable.

So, if I made an account on powerbot, or any other site, said I am sellerman, proved it to them, and scammed them out of 5B on said site, you wouldn't care?

 

[n4n0]

What happens off sythe.org, stays off sythe.org.

Users should only be banned for offenses that occur on Sythe.

That opens doors to offsite scammers though. If someone goes and scams on powerbot then joins here the day after they're banned on Powerbot, you can guarantee they're planning on doing the same here. That rule's in place to prevent people from being scammed by known scammers.

 

[Frank0929]

That opens doors to offsite scammers though. If someone goes and scams on powerbot then joins here the day after they're banned on Powerbot, you can guarantee they're planning on doing the same here. That rule's in place to prevent people from being scammed by known scammers.

Wouldn't this be better than them just evading with a whole new identity to scam here? At least then folks will be able to view the users past on other Web sites via google if any information is available to find out.

 

[I Peter I]

Malicious Off-site Activities: If you are found to have committed offences elsewhere (as in, on other sites) which would constitute a ban here on Sythe.org had they been committed here, we may use these offences as an indicator of your character and choose to ban you from Sythe.org. Offences committed prior to your Sythe.org membership may also be considered depending on the nature of the offence.

I don't agree with banning users from Sythe.org for offences committed on other websites. Users should only be banned for infractions received on this website.

Trading Auth Codes: Auth codes from RSBots.net, autofighter and similar

I see absolutely no issue with this at all. After all, it is a trading forum.

 

[x339]

If someone scams offsite, that's the other peoples shit to deal with. They do it on here, they're banned. Maybe they scammed, but they want to go legit and decide sythe is the place to do it, does that mean we should ban them? Maybe someone did something 10 years ago on some random site, does that still make them a threat?

If they have intent of scamming our members, they're going to do it whether they scammed off site or not, so it doesn't make a difference on that front.

This also applies to blackhat. I really don't give a shit if someone knows how to keylog, as long as they don't pull that shit on sythe, then I don't really care.

 

[n4n0]

Wouldn't this be better than them just evading with a whole new identity to scam here? At least then folks will be able to view the users past on other Web sites via google if any information is available to find out.

It's not exactly a bad idea, but it's a double edged sword.

User scams on powerbot (for example) - Gets banned.
They come here. Chances are, to scam again.
If they don't scam(right away) - We know that they are a risk, and by allowing them to remain, we get a bad rap for "harboring undesirables/scammers)
If or when they do scam, and we ban them, they'll just evade anyways.

In the long run, by banning them, we're taking a proactive approach to those whom we can pretty much guarantee will be a risk to the users.

If someone scams offsite, that's the other peoples shit to deal with. They do it on here, they're banned. Maybe they scammed, but they want to go legit and decide sythe is the place to do it, does that mean we should ban them? Maybe someone did something 10 years ago on some random site, does that still make them a threat?

If they have intent of scamming our members, they're going to do it whether they scammed off site or not, so it doesn't make a difference on that front.

This also applies to blackhat. I really don't give a shit if someone knows how to keylog, as long as they don't pull that shit on sythe, then I don't really care.

I'm a believer of reform, but if someone scams and is banned the day before they join sythe, chances are it's to scam.

I could entertain the idea of revising the rule, and implementing a stature of limits, but I don't think the rule should be removed all together



Also, in regards to the pin sales. That rule's in place to protect Sythe from legal reprisal from Jagex.

 

What happens off sythe.org, stays off sythe.org.

Users should only be banned for offenses that occur on Sythe.

Disagree here. If someone scams 10B offsite, they should be allowed to trade here? More than likely to scam again?

Recent severe offenses such as scamming should constitute a ban, but if it was ages ago just leave it in the past.

 

So if you guys identify a proposed change you think everyone should vote on, please make a poll, and we will edit this thread to include the links to various polls on various rules. Just preface your thread with SSR Poll -- (rule to be revised here) and post it in Community General.

 

[Listen to Young Money]

If someone scams offsite, that's the other peoples shit to deal with. They do it on here, they're banned. Maybe they scammed, but they want to go legit and decide sythe is the place to do it, does that mean we should ban them? Maybe someone did something 10 years ago on some random site, does that still make them a threat?

I don't agree with this. We don't have the time to be waiting to see if people are going to be legit the second time around, while still having a bad reputation from a different site. Sure the 10 year point is a decent argument, but what about the people that get banned and join Sythe the very next day like n4n0 said.

Also, how many people do you honestly know that scam offsite and come here to be legit? I've gotten many previous offsite scammers banned on sythe, and from my experience they seem to follow the same pattern. In their defence theory (from what I've noticed), it takes way too much time to become "trusted" and compete with the people here that are truly legitimate, and therefore doesn't hold a promising outcome for them to stay here. Scamming is a much quicker and easier alternative for them.

 

[I Peter I]

It's not exactly a bad idea, but it's a double edged sword.

User scams on powerbot (for example) - Gets banned.
They come here. Chances are, to scam again.
If they don't scam(right away) - We know that they are a risk, and by allowing them to remain, we get a bad rap for "harboring undesirables/scammers)
If or when they do scam, and we ban them, they'll just evade anyways.

In the long run, by banning them, we're taking a proactive approach to those whom we can pretty much guarantee will be a risk to the users.



I'm a believer of reform, but if someone scams and is banned the day before they join sythe, chances are it's to scam.

I could entertain the idea of revising the rule, and implementing a stature of limits, but I don't think the rule should be removed right away.

I understand that it is a double edged sword approach and I have no doubt the rule has saved people from being scammed. The issue I have is that people may have scammed on other sites yet use Sythe as a legitimate place to trade. Maybe revising the rule to take into account how long ago they were banned on a previous site?

If they scam on another site, fine. Let them. As a community those people shouldn't even have the opportunity to scam because that is what MM's/OMM's are for (especially in gold trades where a huge amount of scams happen). The scammers do not pose a risk at all if people weren't so stupid or gullible and took the time to use an MM/OMM.

 

[n4n0]

I don't agree with this. We don't have the time to be waiting to see if people are going to be legit the second time around, while still having a bad reputation from a different site. Sure the 10 year point is a decent argument, but what about the people that get banned and join Sythe the very next day like n4n0 said.

Also, how many people do you honestly know that scam offsite and come here to be legit? I've gotten many previous offsite scammers banned on sythe, and from my experience they seem to follow the same pattern. In their defence theory (from what I've noticed), it takes way too much time to become "trusted" and compete with the people here that are truly legitimate, and therefore doesn't hold a promising outcome for them to stay here. Scamming is a much quicker and easier alternative for them.

Users who join just to scam are the reason it's so difficult for the "up and coming users" to get known and trusted. There's a negative stigma associated with new users because of the fact that there's so many who are scammers.