refunds on account sales

[RSgoldlab]

i am wondering when the seller of an account is held liable for a refund after a sold account gets hacked or recovered. i don't want to take any risks that i cannot control.

1. lets say i sell my account, that was originally created by me, and after weeks/months/years it gets hacked or recovered with 100m 07 on the account. Will i have to provide a full refund (including wealth) to the buyer? There is no way to check whether the buyer faked the hack or fell victim to a virus.
2. After days or weeks the account gets banned for botting. The buyer accuses the seller of botting on the account right before the sale occurred. does the seller have to provide a full refund?
3. I've seen cases where sellers are not able to recover a sold account after a large amount of time, even though they are the original owners. is the seller responsible for a full refund?

Is it allowed to have customers agree to a policy which states 'i am not responsible for account + wealth loss, after 7 days of the sale occurring' and can i use this in a dispute to avoid liability?

 

[Azie]

Your first point - You would have to compensate for the wealth if its proven without doubt that the wealth on account was present close to the recovery/ban date. You would have to provide a refund for the account if you're unable to recover the account.

Your second point - It's not so easy to answer this. It depends on the case and what information is available. There is no way to determine which offence by which person at what time was the reason for the ban. Typically, the OO would be requested to send an appeal via account hijacked method. Ideally, the ban should be reversed and the offence should be quashed. Failure of this would then make the case a lot more complicated. It's hard to answer this it depends on facts of the case and other information.

Your third point - Assuming the account buyer hasn't sold the account after purchasing it from the OO, seller would be responsible for a full refund. Again this depends on the information and facts present at case. There have been cases where the OO has failed to successfully recover an account because they have given account information to the buyer.

"i am not responsible for account + wealth loss, 7 days after the account sale occurred" I don't think this is a reasonable term because a scammer could just recover the account after 7 days especially with the system Jagex have in place for account recoveries.

Honestly all of your questions don't exactly have a straight forward answer. As for selling accounts, it's a risk taken by both seller and buyer. You should understand the risks completely before attempting to sell a Runescape account.

If you have more questions just hit me up and I will help you out where I can.

 

I do believe you could make it very clear in your terms of service that you will take no responsibility for the recovering of the account however that may make people want to purchase off you less. If you have clauses in your TOS or even reiterate to the user your selling the account to that you take no responsibility for what happens to the account after it has been sold, you should be alright.

 

[Elite Dust]

I do believe you could make it very clear in your terms of service that you will take no responsibility for the recovering of the account however that may make people want to purchase off you less. If you have clauses in your TOS or even reiterate to the user your selling the account to that you take no responsibility for what happens to the account after it has been sold, you should be alright.

That's where you are mistaken. Sythe rules > Your personal TOS.

You have to go off Sythe rules/procedure in the event of an account getting recovered. Because the fact of the matter if a seller was able to put in a TOS they are not responsible for account recoveries it would be very easy to stage a recovery and recover the account and keep it without having to return it.

 

That's where you are mistaken. Sythe rules > Your personal TOS.

You have to go off Sythe rules/procedure in the event of an account getting recovered. Because the fact of the matter if a seller was able to put in a TOS they are not responsible for account recoveries it would be very easy to stage a recovery and recover the account and keep it without having to return it.

A seller can put in place their own TOS and here is why.

People fake account recoveries all the time. If your saying that Sythe TOS over someone's personal TOS you are personally saying that oh if a person fakes a mod recovering an account the mod will automatically be banned.

Someone's personal TOS is effectively the main thing. The person decides who takes responsibility to the account. Don't get me wrong someone who puts I am not responsible for any recoveries that happen to the account most likely won't sell unless the account has been made recently and there are no recoveries on the account anyway.

 

A seller can put in place their own TOS and here is why.

People fake account recoveries all the time. If your saying that Sythe TOS over someone's personal TOS you are personally saying that oh if a person fakes a mod recovering an account the mod will automatically be banned.

Someone's personal TOS is effectively the main thing. The person decides who takes responsibility to the account. Don't get me wrong someone who puts I am not responsible for any recoveries that happen to the account most likely won't sell unless the account has been made recently and there are no recoveries on the account anyway.

Sythe rules trump a seller's ToS. End of story. Of course I wouldn't expect a 3 day old member to get that.

@OP if you have a certain ToS you want to introduce run it past staff first to see if it's alright. Depending on how things play out though it will most likely fall back on the rules that govern this whole site.

 

[Sneaky]

That's where you are mistaken. Sythe rules > Your personal TOS.

You have to go off Sythe rules/procedure in the event of an account getting recovered. Because the fact of the matter if a seller was able to put in a TOS they are not responsible for account recoveries it would be very easy to stage a recovery and recover the account and keep it without having to return it.

I'm pretty sure there are no "Sythe rules" on this, it's a free market so I'm pretty sure you can have your own TOS. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[Elite Dust]

I'm pretty sure there are no "Sythe rules" on this, it's a free market so I'm pretty sure you can have your own TOS. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

You are mistaken, although the rules state:

An explicit refund and returns policy must be defined by the seller and agreed upon by the buyer (in writing) before a sale occurs.

In many cases even when the seller had a TOS saying they are not responsible if the account gets recovered, they were still required to attempt to recover the account.
After reading the rules for account sales I deem the rules to be gauzy, It seems that a re-work on them to elaborate to account sellers/community is necessary.

 

[Sneaky]

You are mistaken, although the rules state:



In many cases even when the seller had a TOS saying they are not responsible if the account gets recovered, they were still required to attempt to recover the account.

Being asked to attempt to recover the account makes sense, did they have to refund the buyer if they weren't able to though? I can see them being asked to recover just for the sake of being nice but if they had to actually refund the person even when it was in their TOS then that's weird. I also advised @Treegp if they were to sell accounts on their website, then make a TOS on there and make a sythe thread linking to their website. Since OP doesn't have a website though (or at least I'm pretty sure they don't,) then it doesn't apply to them.

 

[RSgoldlab]

thanks for the answers. i've decided to not sell accounts until the ruling gets changed.
with the current ruling its very easy to get screwed over by people faking account recoveries

for example a buyer claims to have their account recovered after you sold it to them
the buyer provides pictures of the account having 400m on it
After you successfully recover the account it appears that the wealth is gone
you have to pay a 400m refund

not worth it in my eyes

 

[JdoT]

thanks for the answers. i've decided to not sell accounts until the ruling gets changed.
with the current ruling its very easy to get screwed over by people faking account recoveries

for example a buyer claims to have their account recovered after you sold it to them
the buyer provides pictures of the account having 400m on it
After you successfully recover the account it appears that the wealth is gone
you have to pay a 400m refund

not worth it in my eyes

i have the same problem, i sold an account to somebody which may possible have wealth etc on and i was the OO but I have no way of recovering it and am more than likely now going to have to refund the guy..

even though i let him know before hand i am still held reliable because i was the OO which seems ridiculous i seriously regret selling the account now and will not sell anything account related again

(basically sold the account for 150m, him knowing full well i couldn't recover it, now he's made a scam report saying i've scammed him and the account has been recovered and because i'm the OO i've had a do not trade put on me like i've actually done something wrong, the ruling to selling accounts on here is pretty insane when he knew FULL well before the sale that I had no way of recovering the account if he was to be hijacked or to get a virus etc)

 

[Tree]

yeah i dont agree with it either. the other thing people don't realize is the way its set up now, the only people who risk selling accounts are the ones that are less trusted/aka higher probability of scamming.

changing the format would make it so acc sales would go to extremely trusted members who don't currently offer that service, eliminating a majority of acc recovers/disputes.. oh well tho

 

[R0T]

yeah i dont agree with it either. the other thing people don't realize is the way its set up now, the only people who risk selling accounts are the ones that are less trusted/aka higher probability of scamming.

changing the format would make it so acc sales would go to extremely trusted members who don't currently offer that service, eliminating a majority of acc recovers/disputes.. oh well tho

Any idea on how to change the format?

Account selling isnt safe for anyone honestly unless you completely trust the user your selling the account too and you can be trusted yourself <-cant control that.

Issues where if an original owner cant recover an account would defiantly seemed like their liability as it must mean they didnt have enough creation details for a secure account recovery anyway.

The way i see the account reselling chain, honestly theres no way around it until it becomes completely possible to transfer account ownership 100%.

^changing the rules will either benefit the account seller or the account buyer for either good or bad reasons all depending on how they want to use them.

Extremely trusted users resell account for profits from people who cant fetch the 2x-5x higher price a donor can, honestly i think they should be held liable for anything that occurs in cases where they weren't the original owner they took the risk to make the profit.

 

[Tree]

@R0T I think the account buyer should be responsible after the account is purchased.

It would make it so the account buyer only will purchase accounts from extremely trusted members. (accounts that arent currently on the market because extremely trusted buyers cant be fucked with the risk involved)

I for example have 30-35 accounts that are perfectly formatted for staking that i cannot be bothered to sell because of the potential headache down the road. A random member on sythe buying an account should not have the ability to scam someone with a lot of rep/trust. It's just not logical.

If someone wants to buy accounts from a low-trusted member on sythe for a really good price, it's a risk they're willing to take, just like buying gold from someone with a lot less rep for lower rates.

 

[R0T]

@Treegp

But then you have to think about the other side of this what stops the seller from abusing this system....

Say "john" buys an account and is a very wealthy staker and the seller knows that he has a large some of money on the account and a recovery happens, and doesnt return the account before the time that it would take to remove the bank pin? What keeps "john" safe?

Honestly i dont think there will ever be a fair way to settle this unless its posssible to completely transfer ownership of an account sadly.