Refunds for account sales

Hello all

I was looking through recent scam reports and started to read This Report . As the report is not closed yet, I will just state my thoughts about what I have read so far.

The gentleman who bought the account purchased it for $6. (It was a 50fm account). He then proceeded to train the account to 99 FM and other skills. The account was then (presumably) recovered by the seller. The seller in this case is claiming that the buyer (owner) of the account did not set up an email for the account and is asking why he didn't set the email. The seller is trying to recover it to give it back, or he will have to refund the $6.

I'm sorry, but does no one else see an issue here? I think that it's very problematic for account buyers. In this case why would you buy an account if there is always that chance for the account to be recovered and all time and progress lost.

I think that we should implement some sort of Fee associated with this issue. If a customer buys an account from a seller, and the account gets recovered, the buyer should be protected.

For example, lets say a customer buys a 50fm account. They level the account to 99fm. It'd be pretty easy to get a median number for the amount of time put into the account. Aka searching the marketplace to see what levelers charge for that amount of work.

Sellers need to be held liable for this stuff, or it will keep happening.​

 

[bababablacksheep]

Hello all

I was looking through recent scam reports and started to read This Report . As the report is not closed yet, I will just state my thoughts about what I have read so far.

The gentleman who bought the account purchased it for $6. (It was a 50fm account). He then proceeded to train the account to 99 FM and other skills. The account was then (presumably) recovered by the seller. The seller in this case is claiming that the buyer (owner) of the account did not set up an email for the account and is asking why he didn't set the email. The seller is trying to recover it to give it back, or he will have to refund the $6.

I'm sorry, but does no one else see an issue here? I think that it's very problematic for account buyers. In this case why would you buy an account if there is always that chance for the account to be recovered and all time and progress lost.

I think that we should implement some sort of Fee associated with this issue. If a customer buys an account from a seller, and the account gets recovered, the buyer should be protected.

For example, lets say a customer buys a 50fm account. They level the account to 99fm. It'd be pretty easy to get a median number for the amount of time put into the account. Aka searching the marketplace to see what levelers charge for that amount of work.

Sellers need to be held liable for this stuff, or it will keep happening.​

This is a complete joke not only has he trained the account to 99 fm, its got multiple other skills too.

Along with all the FM crates which garners about 10-15m bank dependent on luck.

So in this case there is a lot more stolen than 6.60$.

TWC should be minimum

 

Honestly, what's $6 when the buyer puts in multiple hours training the account. The seller needs to be held accountable. Refunding $6 when they "don't know if they can recover an account" that they are the OO to is mind blowing.

I'm sure at this point the seller is going to give up trying to recover the account, keep the account, and just refund the $6, and then sell that account again for monetary gain.

Disgusting.

@Devil @Techie @Andy @Yoshiki @Superfluous

Can we get some mod input here? This is simply unacceptable.

 

[Superfluous]

I'm not handling that report though could see a TWC being merited based on a quick skim of it. To some of your other points:

why would you buy an account if there is always that chance for the account to be recovered and all time and progress lost.​

This is why buying accounts is so risky, especially if the seller is untrustworthy in the buyer's eyes. We have numerous warnings about this on the site.

I think that we should implement some sort of Fee associated with this issue. If a customer buys an account from a seller, and the account gets recovered, the buyer should be protected.

Staff aren't going to implement this. Though a nice idea, it's impossible to reliably and consistently enforce or otherwise set standards for.

For example, what do we do if 99 FM was trained by hand vs. botted? Would that affect compensation? What do we do if a 1 def pure gets 7 def levels and becomes less valuable? Would that affect compensation? What about when a customer neglects to change a password, register an email, etc.? The potential scenarios are endless.

My hope is that buyers and sellers will, over time, increasingly agree to ToS that dictate how things should proceed should this type of scenario arise. Some sellers and service providers are doing a good job with this right now; others are not, and buyers should be wary of dealing with them as a result.

 

[tbh]

I may not be who you’re hoping to hear from, however I’m fairly confident that I can answer this.

The main reason it’s difficult to hold someone responsible is due to the inability to prove these claims.

This is where Terms of Service come into play and why it’s highly recommended to explicitly state the recovery responsibility prior to conducting the trade.

There’s risks involved when buying accounts and so a lot of thought should go into who you choose to buy from. <3

I’m not saying that I disagree, but unfortunately there’s not much that can be done in most of these scenarios. TWC’s and other outcomes already tend to happen when it’s repeated accusations / occurrences. In my opinion, the staff team is pretty proficient when it comes to handling these situations appropriately. <3

 

How would you decide how much an account gets? Would you price check it against someone who is trusted or not trusted? Would you value it with how much the services cost? Is the account botted? Too many things to account for regarding scenarious like this. That is why TOS is very important and details like this should be hammered out before a trade is started.

 

Thanks for responding,

I can see where you are coming from. It would be hard to keep it the same for all. I guess it should be buyer beware for these sorts of claims. Although if this situation continues to happen with sellers there should be some sort of consequence. TWC's seem like a little slap on the hand. If there are repeat offenders maybe it would warrant a DNT. Just some food for thought.

Thanks again

 

In my eyes it's already concerning when an account seller can not recover an account shortly after sale. No matter what the customer has done on the account since purchase, not being able to recover it resulting in just refunding the base amount is not something to take lightly.

Whenever something like this occurs more than once, previous reports are considered for future reports as well.

 

In my eyes it's already concerning when an account seller can not recover an account shortly after sale. No matter what the customer has done on the account since purchase, not being able to recover it resulting in just refunding the base amount is not something to take lightly.

Whenever something like this occurs more than once, previous reports are considered for future reports as well.

absolutely!!

 

[FKN Jake]

I learned my lesson buying an account from a non-high rep account seller. Use someone that's extremely trusted in account sales or this kind of thing will continue happening.

 

I personally have a problem with the way account sales are set up and have warranties etc.

As a customer, you're purchasing an intangible asset. You're not buying a fridge or a car that has mechanical parts. There is zero reason why a buyer should lose access to an account unless it got banned, which I should add wouldn't be the sellers responsibility, that is just the risk.

Personally, I think all account warranties are scams. The buyer shouldn't ever lose access to an OSRS account without a ban.

On the other hand of things I do understand how difficult it would be to prove that the purchaser actually lost access to the account and isn't just reporting to try and get a refund and abuse the system that way.

Overall I don't think the account market is worth it. Just create your own account and play the game if you want to play. No sense in spending $6 or $2,000 on an account when it will always have the risk of being recovered because you're not the OO and when it does get recovered in a few months you're just SoL and your money is gone because there is no protection to buyers who spend that kind of money and lose the account unless there is an added purchased warranty etc etc...


edit: just to add in an example of what you're paying for a warranty when you really shouldn't require this

 

I personally have a problem with the way account sales are set up and have warranties etc.

As a customer, you're purchasing an intangible asset. You're not buying a fridge or a car that has mechanical parts. There is zero reason why a buyer should lose access to an account unless it got banned, which I should add wouldn't be the sellers responsibility, that is just the risk.

Personally, I think all account warranties are scams. The buyer shouldn't ever lose access to an OSRS account without a ban.

On the other hand of things I do understand how difficult it would be to prove that the purchaser actually lost access to the account and isn't just reporting to try and get a refund and abuse the system that way.

Overall I don't think the account market is worth it. Just create your own account and play the game if you want to play. No sense in spending $6 or $2,000 on an account when it will always have the risk of being recovered because you're not the OO and when it does get recovered in a few months you're just SoL and your money is gone because there is no protection to buyers who spend that kind of money and lose the account unless there is an added purchased warranty etc etc...


edit: just to add in an example of what you're paying for a warranty when you really shouldn't require this

In theory, the idea of a warranty is a horrible idea, but in practice, it's actually working quite well on sythe when the seller is the original owner, I think the issue comes when a seller sells an account which they don't own (original owner of) and buy it from randy the random and stick a random warranty on it. if you look at the majority of reports and consider the number of accounts sold, you notice most of the people who have issues are account resellers and not the oo.

I personally think the warranty period should be removed from the account which people are not the original owners of, but not sure of the way to make it work, as it's hard to prove you oo of an account, so there no viable way to make it work

 

[tbh]

I personally have a problem with the way account sales are set up and have warranties etc.

As a customer, you're purchasing an intangible asset. You're not buying a fridge or a car that has mechanical parts. There is zero reason why a buyer should lose access to an account unless it got banned, which I should add wouldn't be the sellers responsibility, that is just the risk.

Personally, I think all account warranties are scams. The buyer shouldn't ever lose access to an OSRS account without a ban.

On the other hand of things I do understand how difficult it would be to prove that the purchaser actually lost access to the account and isn't just reporting to try and get a refund and abuse the system that way.

Overall I don't think the account market is worth it. Just create your own account and play the game if you want to play. No sense in spending $6 or $2,000 on an account when it will always have the risk of being recovered because you're not the OO and when it does get recovered in a few months you're just SoL and your money is gone because there is no protection to buyers who spend that kind of money and lose the account unless there is an added purchased warranty etc etc...

I completely understand where you're coming from. However, you have to keep in mind that just because someone's the original owner doesn't mean they can guarantee a recovery forever. Things can happen, such as the original owner moving, losing all files on their computer (whether it's a complete wipe or the computer getting old and being forced to purchase a new one), or simply a buyer attempting fraud by claiming it's been recovered when that's actually not the case at all. These are just examples of possible scenarios. I've seen some cases where the buyer had been on the account for a prolonged amount of time to where they were now deemed the "owner" when performing recoveries. (whether they decided to assume the owner moved or what the case may be). Not to mention, if you sell thousands of accounts, it may be difficult to keep up with every single one that you've sold. (When referring to the long run)

I definitely agree that the original owner should always be willing to assist, but when it comes to liability it's just not always a feasible option. (For those instances)

Now as far as charging for an additional warranty, I don't necessarily agree with that. However, with selling thousands of accounts, that may be necessary to ensure that information stays on the computer as opposed to being deleted alongside the rest of the files that are no longer necessary to keep. (In order to open up space for new account files)

As well as the points @Pikachu brought up. Except I believe that in reselling, the seller may offer a warranty but ONLY if they are willing to accept the loss and refund the full amount upon the original owner recovering.