Quite Upset

[Brendan]

We haven't finalized the rules on reselling pins, however, we make it clear that ********s are not allowed at all. Dorian was apparently banned for buying ********s on another forum.

So wait, Forum users are allowed too Sell Pinline Pins?
Cause I have seen a member be banned for selling them.

 

[Magic Arrow]

Alright my input on this whole dilemma.

I went to Sin originally complaining about pinlines whereas she decided that something needed to be enforced. Now at the time of my complaint, I didn't realize how important pinline pins are to the Sythe Membership section. I was mainly upset about those sellers who were undercutting my prices and getting more customers. I also didn't really understand the lines. Till now I still don't.

Whether you like it or not, the pinlines are what keeps this pin section running. You guys will have to come to some conclusion quickly though, since I've put my pin selling on hold waiting for the new rules to be made clear.

On the dorian thing. Even though the guy is a complete ****head I don't think he deserves to be the scapegoat of all this. Sure he bought a line, but had he known it was against Sythe rules I'm sure he wouldn't have.

Finally, I hate how everyone says "Skele uses a line". It's not like anyone going to bend their back backwards to accommodate for Skele's pin selling. I'm sick of everyone adding my msn, asking me "Does Finn use a ********". I'd like to also answer this here. All finn does is get pins from me which he sells and gets a share of the profit. I have never KNOWINGLY bought ******** pins, and since the new rules have come out I've sold the remainder of my pins and am currently waiting on some clarification.

 

[Sin666]

Alright my input on this whole dilemma.

I went to Sin originally complaining about pinlines whereas she decided that something needed to be enforced. Now at the time of my complaint, I didn't realize how important pinline pins are to the Sythe Membership section. I was mainly upset about those sellers who were undercutting my prices and getting more customers. I also didn't really understand the lines. Till now I still don't.

Whether you like it or not, the pinlines are what keeps this pin section running. You guys will have to come to some conclusion quickly though, since I've put my pin selling on hold waiting for the new rules to be made clear.

On the dorian thing. Even though the guy is a complete ****head I don't think he deserves to be the scapegoat of all this. Sure he bought a line, but had he known it was against Sythe rules I'm sure he wouldn't have.

Finally, I hate how everyone says "Skele uses a line". It's not like anyone going to bend their back backwards to accommodate for Skele's pin selling. I'm sick of everyone adding my msn, asking me "Does Finn use a ********". I'd like to also answer this here. All finn does is get pins from me which he sells and gets a share of the profit. I have never KNOWINGLY bought ******** pins, and since the new rules have come out I've sold the remainder of my pins and am currently waiting on some clarification.

We disallowed chatroom scam pins, and no one ever really had a problem with that. Pin lines aren't much different, except they target people who are oblivious to the charges. I suppose it may seem more palatable, as there's no deception (or, indeed, direct contact) involved, but that doesn't actually make it any better.

Looking only at what ********s are, I think most people would agree that they shouldn't be allowed: the problem arises when people look at who's using them, and how popular they've become. Then, they start digging for justifications.

The membership market was around before ********s, and it will be around after them. The only difference would likely to be an increase in price, and a decrease in bulk sellers - and that even assumes that we could be entirely successful in getting rid of ********s, which realistically is impossible. But, the effort is not pointless just because it's impossible.

I am personally indifferent about reselling, although I acknowledge the potential loopholes and hypocritical messages that allowing such trades would send. Either way, it would only be the "known reselling of ******** pins," that isn't allowed, in which case any user could easily get around the rule by simply not asking where they came from.

Finally, as an aside, Dorian did not buy one lone ********. He bought them on several occasions, and boasted knowledge of how to use them when he offered to test lines for another user.

 

[Grave]

I honestly had no idea this was even against the rules until now. Don't you think it's a little harsh to permanently ban a valuable member when he was unaware it was against the rules to buy ********s? At least make it clear in the rules before you randomly ban someone for it. Since when was this rule even in effect? Why is there still a membership section, when there's no way to legally obtain pins? If I'm wrong, can someone explain to me how it's possible to legally obtain a pin and sell it for $3 while making a profit? As I stated before, someone has to pay Jagex the full price for it, and it's definitely not the pin seller that does.

 

[Harped]

I honestly had no idea this was even against the rules until now. Don't you think it's a little harsh to permanently ban a valuable member when he was unaware it was against the rules to buy ********s? At least make it clear in the rules before you randomly ban someone for it. Since when was this rule even in effect? Why is there still a membership section, when there's no way to legally obtain pins? If I'm wrong, can someone explain to me how it's possible to legally obtain a pin and sell it for $3 while making a profit? As I stated before, someone has to pay Jagex the full price for it, and it's definitely not the pin seller that does.

http://www.sythe.org/showthread.php?t=656103

Stuck in the pin sales section. Before Sin's edit it just said "No selling/buying ********s", but he tried buying a pinline, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Sin666]

I honestly had no idea this was even against the rules until now. Don't you think it's a little harsh to permanently ban a valuable member when he was unaware it was against the rules to buy ********s? At least make it clear in the rules before you randomly ban someone for it. Since when was this rule even in effect? Why is there still a membership section, when there's no way to legally obtain pins? If I'm wrong, can someone explain to me how it's possible to legally obtain a pin and sell it for $3 while making a profit? As I stated before, someone has to pay Jagex the full price for it, and it's definitely not the pin seller that does.

Man, you are a God. Keep up the good work, I done a bit of hacking myself, never got any epic accounts tho =(

It seems he's broken other rules as well; he'd be banned either way. And I assume he knew ********s weren't allowed, or he probably would have tried to buy them here before trying another site.

 

[Grave]

Stuck in the pin sales section. Before Sin's edit it just said "No selling/buying ********s", but he tried buying a pinline, so it doesn't matter.

Alright, well I never saw that sticky since I don't visit the membership section much. Why isn't it directly listed under the official rules thread though?

You may only sell pins that you buy from your phone (and any phone you have permission to place the charges to.)

I'm assuming Skele and Marrow get their pins from a phone they have permission to place charges to I guess. The owner of the phone must be fucking nice to allow them to place thousands of dollars of charges for a few hundred dollars worth pins.

It seems he's broken other rules as well; he'd be banned either way. And I assume he knew ********s weren't allowed, or he probably would have tried to buy them here before trying another site.

It's not just about him. Could you answer my other question? Why is the section still in existence? No one's dumb enough to pay over $10 for a pin and then sell it for $3. They'll only do that if they're not paying for it, and the only way they can do so, as stated in the rules, is if they have permission to place the charge on a phone. Now, who is the world would allow someone to place charges on their phone for free?

 

[`Chainsaw35]

Seems like a lot of drama, but the ban makes sense, because he wasn't simply reselling pins, and the evidence is there...
Agree with Grave completely, it's quite obvious they aren't making money paying 300% what they're selling for, so how they're getting them is becoming irrelevant. Whether or not he should be banned isn't really questionable(due to other rules broken), but the fact that you can't make money selling pins for 1/3 your cost makes you wonder, where do they come from if not lines/bulk sales? Somewhere down the line, there's something "wrong" if they can sell pins that cheap. Believe me, I'm not complaining about low prices, I'm complaining about the fact that you can't prove if and how someone acquires pins without them being a moron like Dorian was, and bragging about it.

 

If you guys get rid of reselling pins, which are Australia PBP pins, it would bring more chaos tbh A few months ago there were a few pin sellers whom sold US Pins via SMS. Most of the pins that the seller gets, has a chance of not working. This is the reason because of how JaGeX would delete the pin, because it was obtained through a Phone Shop. These sellers of US SMS pins are Joe Hazley and Monk13. Both of these sellers sold pins that usually don't work, well maybe 50% of them don't work. This would bring to the point that more chaos would happen.

edit: Also, now we are not permitted to resell pins, j/w

 

[Gurtaton]

If you completely remove the Membership Sales section then there's probably going to be a huge rant. And, of course...That would also mean I'll have to pay more for my membership. One thing I don't understand is that Sythe is a black market, it shouldn't matter how we get our things. Or is Sythe going to get sued if we 'overdo' what we do?

And if you ban reselling PINs then a lot of people are going to be stuck with their bulk PINs, which they can't even use all by themselves since they expire after 6 months (usually).

I still don't understand how pinlines work exactly, all I know is that you place a charge on someone else's phone and make profit. Isn't that what black markets are for? To do/sell illegal stuff?

Anyway, I hope this all gets sorted out...Confused on whether I should start PIN selling or not.

 

[rs emperor]

I personally think the ban of DorianKing is rediculous. He never scammed anyone and when I personally traded with him a few times and he was a great trader and didn't mess around. The trade of the pinline occured off site and he still got banned? I liked the analogy someone else brought up that if you put porn on another site, can you get banned on Sythe for it?

I think reselling 100% legit pins (as I do) should be allowed. I can't seem to find 1 legit reason why it shouldn't be allowed

Make the right decision to unban DorianKing and allow the reselling of pins
~Rs Emperor

 

[Magic Arrow]

I personally think the ban of DorianKing is rediculous. He never scammed anyone and when I personally traded with him a few times and he was a great trader and didn't mess around. The trade of the pinline occured off site and he still got banned? I liked the analogy someone else brought up that if you put porn on another site, can you get banned on Sythe for it?

I think reselling 100% legit pins (as I do) should be allowed. I can't seem to find 1 legit reason why it shouldn't be allowed

Make the right decision to unban DorianKing and allow the reselling of pins
~Rs Emperor

Read Sins post, he admitted to attempting to hack, which is a bannable offence anyway.

 

[rs emperor]

I didn't see that before but don't you need proof that he did hack to ban? Thats the policy for scamming, I'm not fully sure about hacking though.

I do still stand on my policy that reselling pins should be allowed.

Rs Emperor

 

[Gurtaton]

I think reselling 100% legit pins (as I do) should be allowed.

So you're saying you buy legit PINs for about 10 dollars?

 

edit: Also, now we are not permitted to resell pins, j/w

That... are we not allowed to resell pins that we bought in bulk from a bulk seller (we don't know where they came from)..?

 

[Gurtaton]

That... are we not allowed to resell pins that we bought in bulk from a bulk seller (we don't know where they came from)..?

Well, just to be safe I wouldn't try selling before a rule has been finalized.