Pirating? Wrong or Right?

[Jeff 2 Nasty]

Yes I agree with that Shedder, I think people should be able to pirate for themselves and not to sell for profit.

that is something i believe in i try not to resell anything i didnt pay for because i wouldnt want it done to me

 

[deadzone]

I'm not taking anything from them - I'm listening to copies of their music without paying them.

You are taking money from them, we already went over this did we not? If you had no way of getting it free and you wanted it enough you would go and buy it rather than do without, therefore with things such as music and films.

You are taking money especially when you figure say a decent movie
Takes what a mill or 2 to make if you have a lot of action or what ever w\ or w\o including good actors (sorry if I am way off don't know anything about movies) ok so you are already in a lot of debt for the film, you then get it out to movie theater's oh wow you just made 30million in the box office but wait, you also gotta think about the money you pay out to get the movies to be shown at these theaters which cuts it down severely.then paying off the costs of the movie and costs of actors and miscellaneous stuff. then the director, screenplay writer and what not get paid, and in the end for all the work and months of time they spend on it for the art they help create they aren't getting a lot. although thats not right for all as some directors etc. are very famous and make a lot regardless.

An as for musicians it's even harder. and something I have personal experience in.

4x nice guitars = 800-2,000 USD EA
2x nice drum kits = 1,000-2,500 USD EA
2x nice bass guitar = 800-2,000 USD EA
atleast 5x nice microphones = 75-150 USD EA
2x nice keyboards (If you have a keyboardists) = 800-2,500 USD EA
6x nice full stack amplifiers = 700-1,500 USD EA
5x nice vocal amplifiers = 400-900 USD EA
5x nice effect peddles = 300-600 USD EA
?x misc (strings pics sticks etc.) 600-900 USD
A bus of some sort to haul the band and equipment = 2,000-4,000 USD
gas money for a 2,000 mile tour (which isn't that big) = 7,000-9,000 USD


TOTAL: 26,075 - 53,150 USD

Thats not counting lights effects roadies and if you're staying in a motel\hotel(s), your food\drinks, or to even rent out each place you play at, or the time you put into creating the lyrics, writing the songs out and putting it all together then the countless hours of practicing it together. Which adds up to a whole hell of a lot more. ~also don't think that by nice I mean best, that is just stuff to where you won't sound like shit. every instrument up there can get around 5-10,000 ea If you want to dish the money out.~

That is also not counting the expensive music editor\synthesizers etc. you need to make your album. which most bands will need to do at least a little bit of a tour and make there album before they get picked up by any reasonable record label.

And honestly I don't really know of anyone who can just dish out this kind of money and if you take out a loan of some kind. What happens if your band is a big flop? you now owe a bank or some kind of loan agency a large amount of money.

Ok and now you're thinking well cmon the shows pay for all that right?

Wrong you figure a ticket costs anywhere from New band 20-200 USD EA rather experienced band

And for a newer band maybe 800 people and a experienced band maybe 10,000?

Ok so for a new band it = 16,000 - 40,000 USD each show
and a experienced band it = 200,000 - 2,000,000 USD each show

Thats a lot right? wrong.

You figure a 16,000 usd tour is a simple 4 band line up 3 nobodies and someone who just started to become famous. The person who is somewhat famous gets 1\3rd of it which is roughly 5,300 usd and the other 3 bands split the rest after the cost of the place they are renting etc. which is usually like 500-1,000 usd So thats about 3,300 usd per band. Which a band doing a normal tour would never be able to afford all there equipment + be able to survive on the income from that.

and a 40,000 usd tour is usually a 5 band line up and is usually 2 fairly famous bands and 3 nobodies in which if you do the math again there all getting screwed because the 2 fairly famous bands will get 1 3rd each etc.

200,000 usd show Is usually 1 famous band, 2 fairly famous bands and 2 nobodies. In which the famous band gets 1\2 after taking out the money for the place ( in this case its about 5-10,000 usd) Which is roughly 90,000 for the band But then you gotta remember there famous they have to give money to there record company for setting up the tour. thats a good 30% or so. which is still a reasonable amount of money but then you have to remember a famous band has to have the best so there lights\effects etc. are gonna cost a lot more. Then the 2 somewhat famous bands get there 1\3rd but they have to pay a decent proportion to either there record label and or the record label of the famous band for letting them get in on the show. so there making hardly anything. and the same thing happens to the 2 no name bands which means there getting even less.

Now your big 2,000,000 usd shows on the other hand are all famous line ups such as like your gigantour etc. in which you need a bigger place there for more money goes out to the place or if you're playing outside you need to pay the zoning committee then pay for the stage etc. to play on. and they usually have a bunch of bands so none of the bands make a whole lot.
But they can have enough money to pay for there equipment and for there living while relaxing not on tour.

You see now the famous bands even need money from there cd's I mean yeah they can survive but what about when they retire? or when they have some kind of doctor troubles, not all the time will a record label help cover this shit they are like most business's if they can screw you over they will. What about for there vacationing etc.

So as you can see it is hard to get going and they can't really survive on there touring and shows alone and unless they sell large amounts of albums there not making much because the record label takes around 60%+ of the money from each album which is why they cost so much.

So yes you are in fact no matter how you try to condone it stealing money from bands\movie makers when you download there music illegally.

 

[Shroomsday]

There's nothing wrong with pirating. How can you own an idea, or a song? You can own tangible things that exist in reality, sure, but can you really own a concept?

A voice exist in reality. Of course none can own a concept but it's the creative ideas and expressions of the human mind that has commercial value.

I always hear people using the excuse 'they already make enough money or 'they make all their money from concerts', if you pirate you are no better than a common thief. If pirating was legal there would be no incentive in the world to create ideas.

 

[deadzone]

A voice exist in reality. Of course none can own a concept but it's the creative ideas and expressions of the human mind that has commercial value.

I always hear people using the excuse 'they already make enough money or 'they make all their money from concerts', if you pirate you are no better than a common thief. If pirating was legal there would be no incentive in the world to create ideas.

Quite right I agree with you 100%

 

[gh0st_f4ce]

There's nothing wrong with pirating. How can you own an idea, or a song? You can own tangible things that exist in reality, sure, but can you really own a concept?

You just blew my fuckin mind.

 

[Tic Tac Toe]

they have enough money alrready, if they arent greedy it shouldnt bug them if there songs dont profit after they make a reasonable amount

 

[trainin4you]

pirateing has saved me over a thousand dollars lol

 

[-JokeR HearT-]

pirating is good because it saves people money. If i buy an ipod with 80GB worth of space thats like 40k+ songs. that would be a little less than 40K$ to fill it up!!! that is ridiculous!!

 

[deadzone]

they have enough money alrready, if they arent greedy it shouldnt bug them if there songs dont profit after they make a reasonable amount

You are quite foolish read what I posted. then come back and try to explain yourself.

pirating is good because it saves people money. If i buy an ipod with 80GB worth of space thats like 40k+ songs. that would be a little less than 40K$ to fill it up!!! that is ridiculous!!

and you stole about 18k$ from bands and 22k$ from record companies congrats

 

[crapkiller]

Its kinda like if i stole someones signature. I would get banned for it. But how can someone OWN pixels?

 

[-JokeR HearT-]

You are quite foolish read what I posted. then come back and try to explain yourself.



and you stole about 18k$ from bands and 22k$ from record companies congrats

not yet sorry.. i only have a 4 gig ipod

 

[crapkiller]

not yet sorry.. i only have a 4 gig ipod

loL@little ipod

I have an 8 gig nano (3rd gen) and a 8 gig iphone (1st gen)


dont ask why i have both lol

 

[-JokeR HearT-]

lol yea i have a 4 gig 3rd gen. and a razr 2.. i want my next phone to be a iphone but the data plan is expensive

 

[Runescapian321]

I think that pirating is OK, to a certain extent. Personally, I leech (yes, I admit it ) when downloading a movie or song, for two reasons -

1) (obviously) I don't want to get caught
2) I hope to slow pirating down a bit (1 seed isn't much, but I'm guessing there's tons of people like me)

If there's a movie with 10 seeds and 500 leechers, not many people will want to download it, because it'd be slow (Whereas if the leechers seeded, it'd be the complete opposite). So this stops some people from downloading the movie (therefore keeping them from stealing too much from the people who made the movie).

Another thing with pirating - I saw somebody mention paying $40k to fill an 80gb iPod up. The question is, if you couldn't pirate, would you really spend $40k to fill it up? Probably not. Doubt you'd spend more than a hundred or two. So, technically, you're not causing a company to lose too much money off of you pirating, since you wouldn't buy it anyway. (Kind of Off-topic but...Why would you want 40k songs on your iPod anyway, it'd take like a week straight just to listen to all of your songs I, myself, just keep around 150 songs on my 8GB iPod Touch, they keep me occupied)

And one more point... To those that say 'They have enough money anyway'. Well then how would you feel if pirating was made legal? Producers of software, movies, music, etc. wouldn't make anything because there wouldn't be any point - Nobody would actually buy the stuff, and the world would go into chaos (Think - No OSes, except something like Linux, few apps, except for some freeware, but even that might be gone. Why? Because people who make freeware and such usually only do so so they can get some experience in programming. Why do they want experience in programming? So they can eventually make something bigger and better that they could sell. And that motivation would be gone).

But, meh, I'm just a 13 yr old kid, what do I know =|

 

[-JokeR HearT-]

TO DUDE WITH LONG ESSAY>>>

umm the big selling point on iPods is accesories and storage room. they always advertise the size of the HDD and the ammount of songs it hold.

personally i like to keep a VERY large song collection so i always have something i havent heard. I stick to main bands but sometimes i like to try new genres. thats why i like lots of memory because it fills up too quick and i want variety

 

[Runescapian321]

TO DUDE WITH LONG ESSAY>>>

Made me lol

personally i like to keep a VERY large song collection so i always have something i havent heard. I stick to main bands but sometimes i like to try new genres. thats why i like lots of memory because it fills up too quick and i want variety

Ah, I see. I could never do that because I'm really picky about what I listen to and don't like much variety

 

[Shredderbeam]

A voice exist in reality. Of course none can own a concept but it's the creative ideas and expressions of the human mind that has commercial value.

They have commercial value, yes, but they still cannot be owned.

I always hear people using the excuse 'they already make enough money or 'they make all their money from concerts', if you pirate you are no better than a common thief. If pirating was legal there would be no incentive in the world to create ideas.

Whether or not there would be any incentive to create ideas is irrelevant (there would still be incentive).

You are taking money from them, we already went over this did we not? If you had no way of getting it free and you wanted it enough you would go and buy it rather than do without, therefore with things such as music and films.

Stealing: Actively taking property from the artist.
Pirating: Obtaining a free copy of something I would have paid for otherwise.

There is a world of difference. They do not have a moral right to the money in my pocket that I might have paid them - they have a right only to that money which they already have.

So as you can see it is hard to get going and they can't really survive on there touring and shows alone and unless they sell large amounts of albums there not making much because the record label takes around 60%+ of the money from each album which is why they cost so much.

I am not trying to say that they could survive if pirating was legalized - a lot probably wouldn't. That, however, is irrelevant. Whether or not they survive does not influence whether my pirating is stealing.

 

[Xx Hahaha xX]

Well i personally don't think that it's right, artists should be rewarded for their hard work.

 

[Playnice]

Pirating is definitely wrong, but hell, we can't resist getting free stuff..

 

[Shredderbeam]

Well i personally don't think that it's right, artists should be rewarded for their hard work.

Please explain how an artist can own an idea.

Pirating is definitely wrong, but hell, we can't resist getting free stuff..

Why is it wrong?